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Rank: On the Podium
#26 Posted : Saturday, September 19, 2015 8:35:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Rosny Go to Quoted Post

Get the optimal temp for your tyres


Do we know what the optimal tyre temperature is yet for Forza Motorsport 6?

In Forza Motorsport 4 it was easier to define as the telemetry showed Green/Yellow/Red when it came to temps but the current UI is a little harder to decipher.

I'm also wondering about Tyre Pressure; I haven't adjusted it yet in this game but in Forza Motorsport 4 a running pressure of 32.0 was seen as optimal.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 5 users liked this post.
#27 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:38:21 AM(UTC)
Once you've tuned your Camber you should then tune your tyre pressures.

Both are dynamic and thus can change if one setting has change, but I personally start with Cambers.

And yet again, not saying names, someone trying to get even temps across the tyre width *FACEPALM* - Camber tuning 101: Even temps is for drag, NOT circuit!

For those who don't know how to tune tyre pressures...

Once you have set your Camber, you're pressures are determined by the middle section of the tyre width

Examples:
Inner: 196, middle: 200, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 185, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

Get it?

An increase in tire pressure will raise the centre temperature (vice versa), you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps

Now if no one can follow this, I don't know what to say...

RR

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#28 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 1:14:10 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GSR RoadRunner Go to Quoted Post
Once you've tuned your Camber you should then tune your tyre pressures.

Both are dynamic and thus can change if one setting has change, but I personally start with Cambers.

And yet again, not saying names, someone trying to get even temps across the tyre width *FACEPALM* - Camber tuning 101: Even temps is for drag, NOT circuit!

For those who don't know how to tune tyre pressures...

Once you have set your Camber, you're pressures are determined by the middle section of the tyre width

Examples:
Inner: 196, middle: 200, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 185, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

Get it?

An increase in tire pressure will raise the centre temperature (vice versa), you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps

Now if no one can follow this, I don't know what to say...

RR


This is an accurate description of what happens in the real world, but Forza is not the real world. No matter what pressure you run, the middle temp will always be equal to or between the inner and outer.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 1:38:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Rosny Go to Quoted Post

Get the optimal temp for your tyres


Do we know what the optimal tyre temperature is yet for Forza Motorsport 6?

In Forza Motorsport 4 it was easier to define as the telemetry showed Green/Yellow/Red when it came to temps but the current UI is a little harder to decipher.

I'm also wondering about Tyre Pressure; I haven't adjusted it yet in this game but in Forza Motorsport 4 a running pressure of 32.0 was seen as optimal.


My personnal preference for now is around 32.5
I am still learning the art of tuning after all these years

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#30 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 1:41:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GSR RoadRunner Go to Quoted Post
Once you've tuned your Camber you should then tune your tyre pressures.

Both are dynamic and thus can change if one setting has change, but I personally start with Cambers.

And yet again, not saying names, someone trying to get even temps across the tyre width *FACEPALM* - Camber tuning 101: Even temps is for drag, NOT circuit!

For those who don't know how to tune tyre pressures...

Once you have set your Camber, you're pressures are determined by the middle section of the tyre width

Examples:
Inner: 196, middle: 200, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 185, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

Get it?

An increase in tire pressure will raise the centre temperature (vice versa), you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps

Now if no one can follow this, I don't know what to say...

RR


This is an accurate description of what happens in the real world, but Forza is not the real world. No matter what pressure you run, the middle temp will always be equal to or between the inner and outer.



Correct me if i m wrong, but i didn t use the telemetry in fm5 due to its flaws. Especially for tyres temp. I tuned by feeling and laptime. Any of you leaning the same way?
I am still learning the art of tuning after all these years

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 1:53:27 PM(UTC)
^^^Yeah, I don't put much faith in the telemetry. Never have used it much. Sure wish the game came with a simple lap analysis, that would be useful.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 20, 2015 5:47:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GSR RoadRunner Go to Quoted Post
Once you've tuned your Camber you should then tune your tyre pressures.

Both are dynamic and thus can change if one setting has change, but I personally start with Cambers.

And yet again, not saying names, someone trying to get even temps across the tyre width *FACEPALM* - Camber tuning 101: Even temps is for drag, NOT circuit!

For those who don't know how to tune tyre pressures...

Once you have set your Camber, you're pressures are determined by the middle section of the tyre width

Examples:
Inner: 196, middle: 200, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 185, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

Get it?

An increase in tire pressure will raise the centre temperature (vice versa), you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps

Now if no one can follow this, I don't know what to say...

RR



great post! excellent explanation!!
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#33 Posted : Monday, September 21, 2015 4:30:23 AM(UTC)
I havn't found any particular sweet spot, but it is definitely less then FM5 used to have, Been mostly between -2.5 (highest in front) to -1.0 (lowest in rear)
Also I have ran rather stiff ARB in some cars.

I come to my final camber solutions with combination of things, Tire width: wide = low camber / Narrow = high camber. and ARB setting: Stiff = low camber, Soft = High camber.

From those we can say that car with soft ARBs and narrow tires will have high camber, and cars with wide tires and stiff ARB's have low camber, and other combinations are somewhere in the middle.
Proud member of Hard Luck Racing.

If your time isn't on HC board, it means nothing.

Mr. Oddball
Beat me with lotus, No big deal. Beat me with SUV, you have earned my respect
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#34 Posted : Monday, September 21, 2015 6:16:54 AM(UTC)
In FM6, the amount of camber is in line with what I typically use. I like to give little less camber on the powered wheels so they get better traction. IMO the amount of camber is clearly a tradeoff. The car's traction is best when left/right sides are equally loaded. Higher camber favours outside tire traction but the inside tire would lose a lot of traction from having high camber + body roll. Cars with downforce will notice less of this effect, of course.

In general . . .

FWD: Max -1.3/-1.3, worked on A639 FWD '03 Toyota Celica last night at Brands Hatch Indy with respectable LB ranking. Think I had -1.3/-0.7 (?!?).
RWD: Max -1.5/-1.0, typically have -0.7~-0.5 on the rear for good acceleration
AWD: Max -1.3/-1.0, both front & rear wheels are powered so there are a lot of flexibility in tuning to balance the car. AWD = FWD+RWD so FWD front camber of -1.3 and RWD rear camber of -1.0 sound logical !?!

Tire temperatures should only be used as a general guideline; overall temperature is important but not critical as long as the tires are not overheating or too cold. Tuning by general feel, while very subjective, seems to be the best way for me.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after . . . is just waiting." Steve McQueen, LeMans '71
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#35 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 6:07:52 AM(UTC)
Clearly people are trying to set boundaries, ugh! Hate people who set boundaries.

Camber and Tyre Pressure is dynamic, thus the temperature is dynamic...

FM5 was just awful with the telemetry, literally it was just a pointless feature apart from when it came to tuning gears.

FM6 has improved massively! The telemetry works much better then it use to in FM5 and thus you can now tune cars using it.

@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven't done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

@ GRD 4 3L: Those boundaries are totally unpredictable. On my RWD Agera, I'm running -2.X on the Front and you state in general -1.5 "MAX" which is over a third more then what you say, this is why you NEVER set boundaries!

Boundaries are great for guidance, but to say this is "MAX" - that makes those who are new to tuning think "Oh, I need more camber but people say that is the maximum" then they sometimes wont even try it.

There is NO boundaries everyone, tuning has it's own characteristics set by YOU! Your tune represents your personal preference, your style, your need to scrape that little bit more time off. Boundaries are meant to be a guidance, don't be afraid to go your own way and exceed those set by others.

It's as if I'm trying to start a revolution lol! But anyway, yeah guys and gals - tune your cars to how you feel, don't think that you have to do something this way or that way.

In FM3, ARB's of 1.00 and 40.00 was used all over, I still use it today. There will be people here that say don't use that, don't try it - it's wrong. Well if it was so wrong, wouldn't I not get top times?

Tune, Test, Observe repeat... Keep testing and soon you will will find your own style and then you'll find a correlation to what you like to set, then that will be your base setup in which you tweak to improve.

Camber as stated is dynamic and so it also changes with a drivers style, someone may run -1.4 on the front, but because your style means that you throw your car into the corner, you may run -1.3 or less. So what I'm trying to say is, what you set your camber to should be YOUR style and ONLY your style!

RR
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#36 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 7:40:32 AM(UTC)
@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven't done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven't done any tuning or anything to help the community. Just stop.
You're the one making the claim that the center temp can be 5 degrees cooler or hotter than both side temps due to air pressure. I'm saying I've NEVER seen it.
The burden of proof lies on you, I logically can't PROVE a negative (facepalm).
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#37 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 8:49:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post
@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven't done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven't done any tuning or anything to help the community. Just stop.
You're the one making the claim that the center temp can be 5 degrees cooler or hotter than both side temps due to air pressure. I'm saying I've NEVER seen it.
The burden of proof lies on you, I logically can't PROVE a negative (facepalm).


i dont want to get involved in a big fight here. i found a b class tune by raceboy77 for the 98 supra on spa night. his tire temps in his replay are spread 3* inner, middle, outer just like someone else in this thread suggested they should be. he is running 30lbs tire pressure front and 29lbs rear if i remember correctly and -1 camber front and -3 rear. i wish i could tune tire temps as well as him and you other pros because that was very impressive.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 8:56:10 AM(UTC)
I agree with gtFOOTw on mid tire temperature. The middle temperatures that I have observed in FM5 (and FM4) have always been in the middle. Even tried ultra low/high temperatures on IndyCars and the middle temperature always come out the same = between inside & outside temperatures. I would LOVE to see over/under-inflated tire pressures showing different mid temperature so there's no way of knowing whether the tire is over/under-inflated by observing the tire temp; it can only be done subjectively by feel.

And @RoadRunner, I did say that the number are whay I 'typically' use, not a live/die rule. If -1.5 does not work, then I have no problem venturing into the higher range.

Fully agree with tune, test, observe, and repeat + tuning is different for everyone.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 22, 2015 8:56:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"Racing is life. Anything before or after . . . is just waiting." Steve McQueen, LeMans '71
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:01:58 AM(UTC)
"he is running 30lbs tire pressure front and 29lbs rear if i remember correctly and -1 camber front and -3 rear."

That sounds very close to if not default on the front. That would be expected if the tune was "downloaded and saved" and the installed later. When you do this the front settings remain default. The only way to load a locked tune correctly is to "download and install".

I mentioned this in the support thread, so I guess a fix is coming.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:24:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post
"he is running 30lbs tire pressure front and 29lbs rear if i remember correctly and -1 camber front and -3 rear."

That sounds very close to if not default on the front. That would be expected if the tune was "downloaded and saved" and the installed later. When you do this the front settings remain default. The only way to load a locked tune correctly is to "download and install".

I mentioned this in the support thread, so I guess a fix is coming.


I dl'd the tune bought the car then installed the tune. Jumped on to catalunya to look at the telemetry.

I know in prior forza games there have been errors in replay telemetry and I am new to forza 6 and do not know what is working and not working in fm6. So I apologize if I posted anything in error. Kind regards.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:34:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post

That sounds very close to if not default on the front. That would be expected if the tune was "downloaded and saved" and the installed later. When you do this the front settings remain default. The only way to load a locked tune correctly is to "download and install".

I mentioned this in the support thread, so I guess a fix is coming.


This is happening quite often. I got pinged by a couple of folks asking me about my tune settings and quickly realized that they did not have the correct ones at all......so, I asked them to re-download and install right away. They did so, and bingo!....then they informed me that I had changed them....lol....

@ FOOT -- maybe we should make your thread a sticky within this Tuner's Garage area so folks can see it right away. Can a moderator HELP!!!! Thanks!

PRKId
.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:35:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#42 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:54:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post

That sounds very close to if not default on the front. That would be expected if the tune was "downloaded and saved" and the installed later. When you do this the front settings remain default. The only way to load a locked tune correctly is to "download and install".

I mentioned this in the support thread, so I guess a fix is coming.


This is happening quite often. I got pinged by a couple of folks asking me about my tune settings and quickly realized that they did not have the correct ones at all......so, I asked them to re-download and install right away. They did so, and bingo!....then they informed me that I had changed them....lol....

@ FOOT -- maybe we should make your thread a sticky within this Tuner's Garage area so folks can see it right away. Can a moderator HELP!!!! Thanks!

PRKId
.

Yes, it is the exact same bug that was in FM5 and it took about 4 months for them to fix it. Most people won't notice because they don't check the telemetry and the car still drives pretty good.
I immediately noticed it because I rarely download locked tunes but when I do I start checking everything out.


Rank: C-Class Racing License
#43 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 10:32:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post
@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven't done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven't done any tuning or anything to help the community. Just stop.
You're the one making the claim that the center temp can be 5 degrees cooler or hotter than both side temps due to air pressure. I'm saying I've NEVER seen it.
The burden of proof lies on you, I logically can't PROVE a negative (facepalm).


I quote what you quoted on me: "You obviously haven't done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry"
I like how you then twisted my words to then say: "Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven't done any tuning"

But if you read what I said, it says "using the telemetry" so please stop twisting my words, especially when it's clearly shown on the forums. I didn't say you haven't done any tuning, I said you haven't done any "using the telemetry" to truly know what tuning is like using it.

Now the best part: "Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven't done any tuning or anything to help the community."
Hmm... I'm pretty sure I didn't say that you haven't done "anything to help the community." Lets see...
I quote from myself: "Random none helpful statements does not help the community." Which is true, it doesn't. But how can you go from random statements, to never doing anything to help the community, big difference! Saying that real life and Forza is not the same (which is obvious) is a random statement which in NO WAY helps the community!

Now there is no point in my post that I said 'this happens in Forza.' All I did was just give a generic example.
If I did say blah blah this happens in Forza, in science when you make a statement or a hypothesis, you then test it. Now, once you test it, you then try to disprove the statement which then could back up or back down the original statement. If YOU do not approve of my generic example, it is then YOUR responsibility to then disprove the statement. Admittedly it is also partly my responsibility, but for the sake of debate and this not being a personal investigation, it would then be YOUR responsibility to disprove! So yet again, twisting my words, and making more assumptions!

Now just to clarify and conclude this ridiculous debate, I gave an example to show what you are aiming for when changing the tyre pressures on your car. I did NOT use real data, nor did I intent to, but I was giving an example that would clearly show the community that the centre temp should be between the inner and outer temps.

Now that you've made a fool of yourself, hopefully you'll stop twisting my words and future posts via me or others!

Originally Posted by: GRD 4 3L Go to Quoted Post
I agree with gtFOOTw on mid tire temperature. The middle temperatures that I have observed in FM5 (and FM4) have always been in the middle. Even tried ultra low/high temperatures on IndyCars and the middle temperature always come out the same = between inside & outside temperatures. I would LOVE to see over/under-inflated tire pressures showing different mid temperature so there's no way of knowing whether the tire is over/under-inflated by observing the tire temp; it can only be done subjectively by feel.

And @RoadRunner, I did say that the number are whay I 'typically' use, not a live/die rule. If -1.5 does not work, then I have no problem venturing into the higher range.

Fully agree with tune, test, observe, and repeat + tuning is different for everyone.


Now, for someone who hasn't made such a fool of themselves...

I quote from myself: "you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps"
That means; the difference between the centre temp - outer temp = inner temp - centre temp
Using my Example: 196 - 193 = 193 - 190 .... 3 = 3

Now, when I use REAL data, I always quote what car I used and track. So as I didn't quote them, this was NOT real data and thus was just a generic example (which can happen in real life, didn't say it happens in Forza) to CLEARLY show the community that you want the centre temp to be between the inner and outer temps. So, if it is perfectly in the middle don't change it, but if it's out by a certain degree increase or decrease the pressure to make the difference equal.

If I said...

Inner: 196, middle: 195, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 191, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

I'm still clearly showing that the middle temp needs to be between the inner and outer temps, but to clearly show this I used more extreme values. Don't see how that became such a fuss... people these days!

Now, I wasn't saying that what you said was a live/die rule, just saying that people should see what works for them rather them following suit, didn't mean to come off as if I was saying that you were wrong, just trying to show that your boundaries are different to what I've found and that people, as I said, should see what they find - so for that I am sorry.

I like helping the community, but I prefer that I give a way for them to test it, then they go out and see what they find/investigate rather then saying this is what I find Data Data Data.

But anyway, at least you didn't twist my words like FOOT =]

RR
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#44 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 11:43:44 AM(UTC)
All of that and you still missed the point. You can set the psi at 15 or 55, and the center will still be between or the same as the inner and outer.
That's it. I've done the test. Anybody can try it.
So you really think I don't look at the telemetry? Who do you think discovered the tuning loading bug AGAIN by looking at the telemetry.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 12:03:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gtFOOTw Go to Quoted Post
All of that and you still missed the point. You can set the psi at 15 or 55, and the center will still be between or the same as the inner and outer.
That's it. I've done the test. Anybody can try it.
So you really think I don't look at the telemetry? Who do you think discovered the tuning loading bug AGAIN by looking at the telemetry.


I'll give you an example...

I tuned my Lambo and the rear temps were something like:

213 / 210 / 208 .... 208 / 210 / 213
When I changed my pressure to something like 24.5 psi
The difference between the inner and centre and the centre and outer was now the same, so it made a difference and worked!
And on top of this, the car had more grip and I was pulling faster times.

Don't give two shizzels about whether you changed it to 15 or 55 and the centre temp was still "between or the same as the inner and outer" tyre temps.
All I care about is that the differnce between the inner and Centre Temp is the same as the difference between the Centre Temp and Outer Temp

END OF!

And your giving the telemetry so much grief. Why are you trusting it with the loading bug?
And you think I care if you discovered it? You want a cookie? A Golden Star? Big woop, you should become a gaming detective!

RR


Rank: A-Class Racing License
 8 users liked this post.
#46 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 12:37:00 PM(UTC)
Nice to see the Forza forums are as friendly as ever......
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Tuesday, September 22, 2015 1:40:05 PM(UTC)
my small insight. don't hate me.

high camber was spawned from understeering 4wd
subarus and the like of on forza 5 and passed over to
the rwd with the aid of tcs.

Now forza 6 genericly hates high camber and to an
extent it does not work as well. this does not mean its
impossible to make it work or that it can't work.

i find 6 really punishes time scrubbed in the corners
with high settings. eg cam arb and springs.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#48 Posted : Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:54:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Rosny Go to Quoted Post

Get the optimal temp for your tyres


Do we know what the optimal tyre temperature is yet for Forza Motorsport 6?

In Forza Motorsport 4 it was easier to define as the telemetry showed Green/Yellow/Red when it came to temps but the current UI is a little harder to decipher.

I'm also wondering about Tyre Pressure; I haven't adjusted it yet in this game but in Forza Motorsport 4 a running pressure of 32.0 was seen as optimal.


31.5 - 32.5 PSI
205 - 215 degrees

I came up with these number because they are the highest and lowest I ever get when my tires are warmed up. On straights it sits at 32 PSI and 210 degrees.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 23, 2015 2:59:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#49 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2015 2:27:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GSR RoadRunner Go to Quoted Post


And your giving the telemetry so much grief. Why are you trusting it with the loading bug?
And you think I care if you discovered it? You want a cookie? A Golden Star? Big woop, you should become a gaming detective!

RR




*you're
Rank: Racing Permit
#50 Posted : Thursday, September 24, 2015 7:18:40 AM(UTC)
So the camber is not like IRL in this game? IRL a car thats setup for the street can easily run -3 front/-2 rear, and thats close to what I set my tunes up to be (usually as much as -3.5/-2.5 and the cars feel great/fast for me?
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