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Rank: Driver's License
#51 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 12:17:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HourlongManx170 Go to Quoted Post
Can you add drivatars in splitscreen?


No.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#52 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:38:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MarinerMars Go to Quoted Post
We have encountered the same problem. I haven't seen it mentioned that there is another bug as well: several of the drivatars appear without names. This never happened in FM5. It seems that they have a server issue. Perhaps it will be solved when the general release occurs on Tuesday!

As annoying and inexcusable as this error is, we are absolutely thrilled with the game - the tracks, rain and night, upgrades, and car handling are great! This release also resolves a serious problem with private multiplayer races in FM5: the randomization was never random, and always repeated a small set of pairs over and over again. So far, even though it only has 10 drivatars for two-player races, the randomization has been good. Let's hope that continues.


You're kidding, right?

Edited by user Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:39:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#53 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:11:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JMJRulz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MarinerMars Go to Quoted Post
We have encountered the same problem. I haven't seen it mentioned that there is another bug as well: several of the drivatars appear without names. This never happened in FM5. It seems that they have a server issue. Perhaps it will be solved when the general release occurs on Tuesday!

As annoying and inexcusable as this error is, we are absolutely thrilled with the game - the tracks, rain and night, upgrades, and car handling are great! This release also resolves a serious problem with private multiplayer races in FM5: the randomization was never random, and always repeated a small set of pairs over and over again. So far, even though it only has 10 drivatars for two-player races, the randomization has been good. Let's hope that continues.


You're kidding, right?


Not kidding - we've never been in an FM5 race where the drivatar name field (gamertag) was BLANK. Have you?

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#54 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:21:19 PM(UTC)
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to use your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car are doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.

Edited by user Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:35:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
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#55 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:28:46 PM(UTC)
What about Forza 5? It had at least 15 Drivatars in Multiplayer. Sorry but I can't help myself thinking that this cannot be a solution.
This will make lots pf players really unhappy, including myself.
And why can't you include it in the free play?

Edited by user Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:40:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#56 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:50:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car is doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.


As a long-time Forza player who is very pleased with the features and quality of FM6, I must express my deep disappointment that you are limiting the AI to only 5 per human player. Can you explain why Turn 10 had to drop the number from the 7 drivatars per human in FM5? With two human players, we had a field of 16 before; now we only have 12. It would seem that the improved coding after two additional years of development would allow you to INCREASE, rather than decrease, the number of drivatars. I sincerely hope your expert team will work on expanding the field in private multiplayer races!
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#57 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:53:29 PM(UTC)
I really hope this is fixed.

My friend gets back from his dads today and we can only have 10 drivatars!? Pretty ridiculous Turn 10.
Rank: Driver's License
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#58 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 5:58:11 PM(UTC)
Thanks for the explanation voodoo it puts some clarity on the situation but is there any work around or any carrer events your thinking of setting up? I just want to do GT racing when ever I want where ever I want but instead I get pagani zondas and Bugatti's in the way.
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#59 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:05:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MarinerMars Go to Quoted Post
Can you explain why Turn 10 had to drop the number from the 7 drivatars per human in FM5? With two human players, we had a field of 16 before; now we only have 12. It would seem that the improved coding after two additional years of development would allow you to INCREASE, rather than decrease, the number of drivatars.


Great question!
FM6 added a lot of new features like wet driving physics and dynamic tirewalls and a whole lot of other improvements that each come with their own processing overhead. Hence the reduction. We're always working with a fixed budget in terms of CPU, memory, and network and so every decision is a compromise.

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#60 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:13:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: II Hylander Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the explanation voodoo it puts some clarity on the situation but is there any work around or any carrer events your thinking of setting up? I just want to do GT racing when ever I want where ever I want but instead I get pagani zondas and Bugatti's in the way.


I completely understand what you're trying to do, and I do hope that I'll have a great solution for you to be able to get the exact experience you're looking for.
In the meantime, may I suggest the Showcase events in the FM6 career mode? There are quite a few events in there that feature a carefully selected grid of cars like you're looking for. The endurance events are an example and the moments-in-motorsports as well the race driver experience offer shorter races with the kind of car selection that I think you may enjoy. The Unrestricted Early GT racing event is an absolute favorite of mine.

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#61 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:23:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: II Hylander Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the explanation voodoo it puts some clarity on the situation but is there any work around or any carrer events your thinking of setting up? I just want to do GT racing when ever I want where ever I want but instead I get pagani zondas and Bugatti's in the way.


I completely understand what you're trying to do, and I do hope that I'll have a great solution for you to be able to get the exact experience you're looking for.
In the meantime, may I suggest the Showcase events in the FM6 career mode? There are quite a few events in there that feature a carefully selected grid of cars like you're looking for. The endurance events are an example and the moments-in-motorsports as well the race driver experience offer shorter races with the kind of car selection that I think you may enjoy. The Unrestricted Early GT racing event is an absolute favorite of mine.



Thank you Voodoo, I've been crying on the forums like a baby but your the first one to have a proper explanation can't wait, I've also done a few of the showcase events they are quite fun! Thanks.
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#62 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:46:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: II Hylander Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for the explanation voodoo it puts some clarity on the situation but is there any work around or any carrer events your thinking of setting up? I just want to do GT racing when ever I want where ever I want but instead I get pagani zondas and Bugatti's in the way.


I completely understand what you're trying to do, and I do hope that I'll have a great solution for you to be able to get the exact experience you're looking for.
In the meantime, may I suggest the Showcase events in the FM6 career mode? There are quite a few events in there that feature a carefully selected grid of cars like you're looking for. The endurance events are an example and the moments-in-motorsports as well the race driver experience offer shorter races with the kind of car selection that I think you may enjoy. The Unrestricted Early GT racing event is an absolute favorite of mine.



Thanks for the technical explanation of why it's limited, it makes it a bit of a softer blow at least. As long as the issue is sitting on a bug-tracker somewhere and Turn10 is at least aware of it from the future then I can remain hopeful.

I assume you guys are looking into having the advanced options/buckets and everything else available in Free Play? Because that way we won't even need to use networked modes as a workaround like we did in the past.
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#63 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:55:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheAdmiester Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the technical explanation of why it's limited, it makes it a bit of a softer blow at least. As long as the issue is sitting on a bug-tracker somewhere and Turn10 is at least aware of it from the future then I can remain hopeful.

I assume you guys are looking into having the advanced options/buckets and everything else available in Free Play? Because that way we won't even need to use networked modes as a workaround like we did in the past.


Yes, the issue is sitting on a bug-tracker (TFS, in case you're wondering, you probably weren't).
Yes, using workarounds sucks.

You know I can't make any promises, right? I know you (and other GAFers) would understand. :)

Edited by user Saturday, September 12, 2015 6:57:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#64 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 7:09:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheAdmiester Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for the technical explanation of why it's limited, it makes it a bit of a softer blow at least. As long as the issue is sitting on a bug-tracker somewhere and Turn10 is at least aware of it from the future then I can remain hopeful.

I assume you guys are looking into having the advanced options/buckets and everything else available in Free Play? Because that way we won't even need to use networked modes as a workaround like we did in the past.


Yes, the issue is sitting on a bug-tracker (TFS, in case you're wondering, you probably weren't).
Yes, using workarounds sucks.

You know I can't make any promises, right? I know you (and other GAFers) would understand. :)


I wasn't wondering about the bugtracker but it's definitely interesting. I love any and all insights into development of games, it's something rare to come across since most stuff seems to be NDA'ed up the wazoo as far as I'm aware.

And yeah, no promises but I'm still going to remain hopeful. I always trust you guys to deliver a good game and despite this issue, I'm still like ~20 hours into a game that isn't technically even out yet, so I hope you don't think I'm complaining, lol. You guys all work your asses off and it totally shows in the unfaltering 60fps that FM has always stood for. I'm just glad it's at least being looked into, better than no response at all and I appreciate that alone.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#65 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 8:32:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MarinerMars Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car is doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.


As a long-time Forza player who is very pleased with the features and quality of FM6, I must express my deep disappointment that you are limiting the AI to only 5 per human player. Can you explain why Turn 10 had to drop the number from the 7 drivatars per human in FM5? With two human players, we had a field of 16 before; now we only have 12. It would seem that the improved coding after two additional years of development would allow you to INCREASE, rather than decrease, the number of drivatars. I sincerely hope your expert team will work on expanding the field in private multiplayer races!


Really? I did several private multiplayer races by myself on FM5 and always had 15 drivatars.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#66 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 10:57:08 PM(UTC)
Can't you just put regular AI as an option in multiplayer instead of drivertars?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#67 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:43:30 PM(UTC)
I very much appreciate the response from Turn 10 developer.

Please find some way around this. If it can't be implemented in private multiplayer then it's back to wanting public lobbys in the hope of getting three players to add 5 AI each.

Failing that then a patch for "Free Play" which brings over most of the MP options would be ideal.

I would love to race the classic historic Grand Prix cars and at the moment I seem to be restricted to a single showcase event , restricted to race against 5 (private MP lobby) or have a grid of unlikely opponents in free play. This makes sandbox play so very restrictive!

Edited by user Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:44:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#68 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:48:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to use your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car are doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.


Thanks for the explanation Voodoo, other than wanting 23 drivatars with one human player and the ability to customise the opposition cars, I have discovered another fault with the way the system currently works.

A friend and I are literally on multiplayer now and with the 10 drivatars we have, have designed it with two groups (red and blue in this instance). We as human players have selected our group and car (group 2) and placed the drivatars in the other group (group 1). After the first race, my friend went to change the car (via the restrictions) for group 1 (the drivatars) BUT only the five cars controlled by his CPU/Console have changed. It will not allow him to change the other 5 drivatars (presumably because they are linked to my console?). Additionally, when he tries to change the group of one the drivatars controlled by my console, it changes his corresponding drivatar, not mine. Eek!

Hopefully if you are remedying the whole 5 drivatar situation anyway this will be resolved but I thought it worth mentioning so you could have a look at this area to. Oh, and it also isn't possible to select different groups and teams now, whereas we could in FM4, it will only allow you to do one or the other.

Thanks in advance and keep up the awesome work!

Rank: Driver's Permit
#69 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:56:06 PM(UTC)
When we talk about AI in Multiplayer, I think there should also be an option to upgrade the AI Cars to the Player class. It is so boring to drive with a upgraded car against Ai with default upgrades...
Rank: Driver's Permit
#70 Posted : Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:57:06 PM(UTC)
The explanation does not help at all. I am a customer that has the Option of max Drivatars. But I only get 5 per human Player, which is just sad.

I am honest when i say: if i knew this before purchasing this for 109 Euros, i surely did not buy it.

The Game is great, absoluteley. It looks stunning, has amazing Handling and a lot stuff to Do. But this Problem is so frustrating...
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#71 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2015 12:29:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to use your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car are doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.


That's fine... Let us set all that up in Free Play that is offline... problem solved.
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#72 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2015 2:15:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Servant of Hell Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VoodooUomo Go to Quoted Post
Let me try to add a bit of clarity to this issue.
FM6 does restrict every player to 5 drivatars in multiplayer. So to get to a full 24 player lobby with drivatars you need 4 human players.

There are technical reasons for this: there is CPU and network overhead involved in playing in multiplayer. When you're racing in multiplayer we have to use your CPU and network connection to send updates to the server (which then sends those updates to everybody else) about what you and your car are doing.

When you're running drivatars in a multiplayer lobby, each drivatar gets an "owner". This is the player whose console does the processing and sends the updates for the drivatar's car. This takes CPU and network upload bandwidth, and uses more of both the more cars you're controlling on your console.
To make sure you can run at a flawless 60 fps and use as little bandwidth as possible (so that the game doesn't hog your connection and works for those of you on slower connections), we set that restriction to 5 drivatars per console/connection.

That's the explanation for what is happening and why. That said, we've heard you loud and clear. And we know you're looking for a specific experience (racing a full field of certain cars or car types) that you can't get in Free Play and are turning to multiplayer for that. We're always listening trying our best to provide you with the experiences you want.

I hope that the technical explanation helps, if only a little bit.


That's fine... Let us set all that up in Free Play that is offline... problem solved.


With respect it may solve it for you, but it wouldn't for those of us that would like the feature in Online Multiplayer so that we can race with a friend online and multiple drivatars of our choosing.
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#73 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2015 9:01:18 AM(UTC)
At this very moment, I actually have an Xbox One in my "shopping cart" on Amazon (Saved up for over two months) - I was just about to pull the trigger on buying it, when I started looking around for Forza 6 videos to whet my appetite, and found this thread. As this game was the only reason I was even thinking about buying the console, if this isn't fixed (as I loved running a "locked" lobby, with certain cars in FM4) I'll stick to the "dark side" So gutted :(

EDIT: Can you just run a race with a full grid of "non-Drivatar" AI?

Edited by user Sunday, September 13, 2015 9:03:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#74 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2015 9:10:25 AM(UTC)
If we cannot have a full field of Drivatars, would it be possible to have a full field of traditional AI drivers? I have seen familiar names (M. Rossi etc.) show up in the Career Mode Showcases for example.
Rank: Racing Permit
#75 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2015 11:32:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ValiantSaint Go to Quoted Post
At this very moment, I actually have an Xbox One in my "shopping cart" on Amazon (Saved up for over two months) - I was just about to pull the trigger on buying it, when I started looking around for Forza 6 videos to whet my appetite, and found this thread. As this game was the only reason I was even thinking about buying the console, if this isn't fixed (as I loved running a "locked" lobby, with certain cars in FM4) I'll stick to the "dark side" So gutted :(

EDIT: Can you just run a race with a full grid of "non-Drivatar" AI?


I was talking with another member here via PM. In CAREER MODE anyways there is a way to race against AI. You have to set your game to offline in the settings. Obviously this would nullify rivals times while this was active.
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