Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Sunday, August 16, 2015 8:23:51 PM(UTC)
Here is my A class 69 Charger tune. I'm hoping to get some feedback from other muscle car fans that have a little more talent than myself
THE BUILD] (assume stock if not listed)
5.9 L engine swap
full aero front and rear
race tire compound, full width front and rear
race transmission
race diff
all race suspension
full roll cage
race weight reduction

THE TUNE
28.5/28.5
4.40 final drive all other gears are default settings
3.7/3.0
0/0
7.0
10.49/17.56
672/656
7.5/7.5
11.0/13.0
1.0/2.0
100/175
54%/120%
35/17

Ive set PB's at Spa, Road America and Indy but like I said I would like to see someone capable of Top 500 times to see what it really has and as usual all constructive criticism is not only welcome but appreciated

Edited by user Sunday, August 16, 2015 8:24:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:11:08 AM(UTC)
Looks good.

I'll try it for you when I have finished work and let you know what I think.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 11:49:22 AM(UTC)
I tried this road America east got 1.04.5 with yours
Handles quite nice but i could not keep up with a porsche i was chasing so i decided it needed more power.

I changed the build got 1.03.2 #495 on the leaderboard and replay is shared

i went to a stock transmission. Removed the restrictor plate(1st one). Added a street driveline. Changed the type widths to 265s front and 315s rear.

All i changed in the tune was type pressure to 26/26
And decell on the diff to 10

Its a little harder to drive and you have to brake sooner but it handles around the same with an added speed bonus

if you find it a little difficult turn down the accel setting on the diff and slowly reduce rear arb to suit you
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 12:30:36 PM(UTC)
I will take a look at as soon as my Xbox updates.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:04:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post
I will take a look at as soon as my Xbox updates.


What's the update for the xb1 for. It took ages for mine to complete
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:24:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Toffo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post
I will take a look at as soon as my Xbox updates.


What's the update for the xb1 for. It took ages for mine to complete


IDk wondering that same thing.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 1:34:20 PM(UTC)
I change a couple of the settings and ran 103.289 with your build.

THE TUNE
28.5/28.5
4.40 final drive all other gears are default settings
3.7/3.0
0/0
7.0
10.49/17.56 12/14
672/656 674/665
7.5/7.5
11.0/13.0 12/12
1.0/2.0 1/1
100/175
54%/120%
35/17 50/10


Rank: B-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:05:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post
I change a couple of the settings and ran 103.289 with your build.

THE TUNE
28.5/28.5
4.40 final drive all other gears are default settings
3.7/3.0
0/0
7.0
10.49/17.56 12/14
672/656 674/665
7.5/7.5
11.0/13.0 12/12
1.0/2.0 1/1
100/175
54%/120%
35/17 50/10




If your happy with your build jay just follow akra1's settings. He's running same lap as me on a power track with a grip build. Besides the changes i made, made it harder to drive and would have made it slower on grip tracks.

It may be a good idea to change the race transmission though as your losing lots of pi you could possibly use to make it lighter. Faster acceleration and better handling
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:19:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Toffo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post
I change a couple of the settings and ran 103.289 with your build.

THE TUNE
28.5/28.5
4.40 final drive all other gears are default settings
3.7/3.0
0/0
7.0
10.49/17.56 12/14
672/656 674/665
7.5/7.5
11.0/13.0 12/12
1.0/2.0 1/1
100/175
54%/120%
35/17 50/10




If your happy with your build jay just follow akra1's settings. He's running same lap as me on a power track with a grip build. Besides the changes i made, made it harder to drive and would have made it slower on grip tracks.

I rebuilt the cars for this track and came up with similar build as you, and run about 102.3xx.

It may be a good idea to change the race transmission though as your losing lots of pi you could possibly use to make it lighter. Faster acceleration and better handling


Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#10 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:24:46 PM(UTC)

I rebuilt the cars for this track and came up with similar build as you, and run about 102.3xx.

Maybe down grade to a sports trans and put rims on its


Rank: B-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 2:57:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post

I rebuilt the cars for this track and came up with similar build as you, and run about 102.3xx.

Maybe down grade to a sports trans and put rims on its




Good advice
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Monday, August 17, 2015 6:15:06 PM(UTC)
thanks guys. i'm trying to get rid of old tuning habits and for me, this is helping the most. i will try both set ups but doubting i see your times. i have a tendency to be inconsistent. i got to have a good tune before i can work on the driving part though.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:42:48 PM(UTC)
And, thanks for the add Toffo. Now I have a ghost to chase and see where it is I'm losing so much time. My best time is up on the leaderboard and like I figured 3+ seconds slower than both you guys. But, my best time was with my tune/build except the front sway bar which i bumped up to 12. I guess thats where driver preference starts showing. Also, I kept the race tranny and the biggest reason for this was how far the RPM's fell in 3rd thru 5th with the sport trans. And, I also realize that way better tuners than me all shy away from the race trans but I still can't help think that the extra gear and the ability to tune each gear as to not have the engine fall too far below it's power band is, at least in some cars, worth the 3 PI it costs to use it. But, I'm basically the student here, and any pointers and your time spent is very much appreciated. I never got online and raced with FM2 and didn't with FM3 until right before 4 came out and I wanted to try and figure the whole build/tune thing out myself which obviously didn't work out the way i had hoped. And don't worry, I won't be pestering people into driving every car I build. I still want to find my own unique way of building cars but like i said before I appreciate y'alls time and opinions

Edited by user Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:46:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 1:27:13 PM(UTC)
You should be able to get within 1 second of that time i posted its quite an easy track.

I'll try set a replay on a more technical track for you with your tune if you wish.

Im dirty(lobby) at both le mans if you would like me to set a time there?

Edited by user Wednesday, August 19, 2015 1:36:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 1:33:45 PM(UTC)
Its a waste of pi the race transmission on this car. the muscle cars are best low revs. it may sound or feel your going slower with around 3-4 rpm but this is when the cars are at they best.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 1:42:00 PM(UTC)
I dont know how i missed this muscle open tune but when i get home i will post mine... if i remeber correctly it is a nasty animal. My b class setup was a rocket so i brought it up to A class and it didnt dissapoint. Most of my A class muscle with the 5.9 has the stock transmission as well but not sure on this one since im not looking at it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:26:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ERS JOHNSON Go to Quoted Post
I dont know how i missed this muscle open tune but when i get home i will post mine... if i remeber correctly it is a nasty animal. My b class setup was a rocket so i brought it up to A class and it didnt dissapoint. Most of my A class muscle with the 5.9 has the stock transmission as well but not sure on this one since im not looking at it.


good to have someone else's input and a guy who is more experienced than most with the muscle.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 3:09:14 PM(UTC)
Quick update...

Ur build tune ran a 1.03.699 on ra east

Changed build to something i would run left tune exactly the way it was ran a 1.02.897

Simple changes were stock trans down 1 on front tire and down one cage.

Up 1 motor upgrade

Personally this car doesnt have the umph for that track so i will drive it at a different one real quick

Edited by user Wednesday, August 19, 2015 3:28:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 19, 2015 3:27:42 PM(UTC)
2nd update this time at spa

Your build tune 2.25.973

My build your tune 2.24.534.

Tune that build and be prepared to hit some personal best times with this car. I will comeback to this in a couple of days and post my tune up but I know you like to do things on your own. Enjoy :)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2015 2:03:30 PM(UTC)
thanks for the feedback. i'll keep driving it to see if I can improve my lap times. i've tried the drive line assist before but found myself watching it instead of the track

Edited by user Friday, August 21, 2015 2:22:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2015 2:16:51 PM(UTC)
H
Originally Posted by: ERS JOHNSON Go to Quoted Post
2nd update this time at spa

Your build tune 2.25.973

My build your tune 2.24.534.

Tune that build and be prepared to hit some personal best times with this car. I will comeback to this in a couple of days and post my tune up but I know you like to do things on your own. Enjoy :)


I do but, looking at the open source tunes is also helpful. My tunes are improving and thats from checking out other peoples tunes, getting feedback on what i need to do differently and hours and i ain't kidding...hours of tuning. My stats:
TIME DRIVEN 40H 11:36
TIME TEST DRIVING 219h 47:22
TIME UPGRADING 37h 25:17
TIME TUNING 47H 56:06

You do have to keep in mind though that for the first 2 months I had the game I couldn't get into the lobbys because of technical difficulties
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2015 2:42:39 PM(UTC)
I will put my own tune up either tonight or tomorrow so you can compare. It may not work for you but its worth a shot.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2015 4:08:14 PM(UTC)
I havn't tested the car, I'm having a lack of time due my tuning comp and real life taking much more time then I expected.

Anyhow, I checked trough this thread and I agree with Toffo and JOHNSSON, the race tranny is waste of PI 99% of the time specially in any car that has 5.7 V8 or 5.9 Racing V8

This is because those large displacement engines produce huge amount of torgue on midrange. Yes the acceleration is best on high revs but the torgue on the midrange is what makes those engines so great. basicly the engine is good from just below 4000rpm and up.

I once made comparison on old LeMans, we were talking about displacement upgrade but this test more than anything brought up the nature of the engine.

Originally Posted by: "HLR Juggernaut" Go to Quoted Post
I tried to do some testing using 2 different engine to get massive differences to point out the differences. How ever the differences were surprilingly small
Car used Toyota sprinter trueno
Engines used 2.0 VVT and 5.7 V8

Non engine parts used: Sport tires to remove wheelspin issues
only non adjustable weight adding/removing parts (wheels / driveline)
Only adjustable parts: sport gearbox, so I could set the final drive optimal for both engines.

All in all, I tried to make the build as equal as possible so that only thing that really changes would be torque.

With V8 I got to 325hp, 350lb-ft, 2268lbs, on C-489
With V-tec I got to 325hp, 216lb-ft, 2264lbs, on C-484

On absolute Top speed V-tec won, as the V8 ran out of gears,
Acceleration 0-top speed
On acceleration on gears that suited the V8, the V8 was significantly faster, as Vtec couldn't get moving
On acceleration on gears that suited the V-tec The V8 was slightly faster, even though it had traction issues.
On acceleration on gears which suited each on their own, the V8 was again clearly faster

On "corner exit simulation" I started on rolling 60mph with Ideal exit RPM just below peak power, and ended on 120mph.
Vtec won just slightly

How ever we often have the situation that we are not on the ideal RPM range when we exit the corner Therefore I repeated the test adjusting gearing so that we were starting on rev range where you often think "Should I shift down for 1 second to get this thing moving."
V8 won that one clearly as it had the midrange torque which the V-tec completely lacks.

Conclusions
As what it comes for racing, Acceleration often is way more important than top speed, and high acceleration requires high torque, Therefore high torque is desirable, How ever, Too much torque might lead to traction issues sooner than too much power.

I would say this is the same reason why 1.6 turbo rally engine is so great, As in low class you really don't care too much about top speed, but acceleration is crucial. And what that engine has more than a truckload. it has torque. and it's often combined with rather long gear ratios.
With same rev-range but high end power the cars would do easily 200mph but, as you have to short shift like mad man, you barely ever go faster than 140mph. and the long gearing dampens the torque so much that wheelspin isn't an issue.


As you could see from the stats of the cars in that test, only thing that really changes is the torque, and when weight goes up (trueno is very light car, but most muscle cars are rather heavy) the difference multiplies. you are interested in the "corner exit simulation" note how I focused on the aspect of not being in quite on optimal RPM. V8 excels on it. thank's to the insane midrange torque.
Proud member of Hard Luck Racing.

If your time isn't on HC board, it means nothing.

Mr. Oddball
Beat me with lotus, No big deal. Beat me with SUV, you have earned my respect
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Friday, August 21, 2015 6:50:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Juggernaut Go to Quoted Post
I havn't tested the car, I'm having a lack of time due my tuning comp and real life taking much more time then I expected.

Anyhow, I checked trough this thread and I agree with Toffo and JOHNSSON, the race tranny is waste of PI 99% of the time specially in any car that has 5.7 V8 or 5.9 Racing V8

This is because those large displacement engines produce huge amount of torgue on midrange. Yes the acceleration is best on high revs but the torgue on the midrange is what makes those engines so great. basicly the engine is good from just below 4000rpm and up.

I once made comparison on old LeMans, we were talking about displacement upgrade but this test more than anything brought up the nature of the engine.

Originally Posted by: "HLR Juggernaut" Go to Quoted Post
I tried to do some testing using 2 different engine to get massive differences to point out the differences. How ever the differences were surprilingly small
Car used Toyota sprinter trueno
Engines used 2.0 VVT and 5.7 V8

Non engine parts used: Sport tires to remove wheelspin issues
only non adjustable weight adding/removing parts (wheels / driveline)
Only adjustable parts: sport gearbox, so I could set the final drive optimal for both engines.

All in all, I tried to make the build as equal as possible so that only thing that really changes would be torque.

With V8 I got to 325hp, 350lb-ft, 2268lbs, on C-489
With V-tec I got to 325hp, 216lb-ft, 2264lbs, on C-484

On absolute Top speed V-tec won, as the V8 ran out of gears,
Acceleration 0-top speed
On acceleration on gears that suited the V8, the V8 was significantly faster, as Vtec couldn't get moving
On acceleration on gears that suited the V-tec The V8 was slightly faster, even though it had traction issues.
On acceleration on gears which suited each on their own, the V8 was again clearly faster

On "corner exit simulation" I started on rolling 60mph with Ideal exit RPM just below peak power, and ended on 120mph.
Vtec won just slightly

How ever we often have the situation that we are not on the ideal RPM range when we exit the corner Therefore I repeated the test adjusting gearing so that we were starting on rev range where you often think "Should I shift down for 1 second to get this thing moving."
V8 won that one clearly as it had the midrange torque which the V-tec completely lacks.

Conclusions
As what it comes for racing, Acceleration often is way more important than top speed, and high acceleration requires high torque, Therefore high torque is desirable, How ever, Too much torque might lead to traction issues sooner than too much power.

I would say this is the same reason why 1.6 turbo rally engine is so great, As in low class you really don't care too much about top speed, but acceleration is crucial. And what that engine has more than a truckload. it has torque. and it's often combined with rather long gear ratios.
With same rev-range but high end power the cars would do easily 200mph but, as you have to short shift like mad man, you barely ever go faster than 140mph. and the long gearing dampens the torque so much that wheelspin isn't an issue.


As you could see from the stats of the cars in that test, only thing that really changes is the torque, and when weight goes up (trueno is very light car, but most muscle cars are rather heavy) the difference multiplies. you are interested in the "corner exit simulation" note how I focused on the aspect of not being in quite on optimal RPM. V8 excels on it. thank's to the insane midrange torque.

i see the point you are making and just so everyone knows, i wasn't doubting anybody. I'm kinda counting on just the opposite actually. I think I bring to much "real life" car building when I'm setting a car up. I've been around cars and racing since I can remember and while that knowledge doesn't hurt to have in this game, I think sometimes you're better off without it.
Anyway, race tranny was gone 5 minutes after i read the post replaced with the old faithful 4 speed and, in that car, I found that I prefered it. I've got an R34 just about where I want it and the Ferrari F40 is showing some promise. I think...

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