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Rank: Racing Permit
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2015 5:55:36 PM(UTC)
There's nothing more painful to play against than someone who has a combination of great racing skills, picks leaderboard cars, and cheats the track. I realize there's not much to argue about leaderboard cars since it's their decision and it's their game, but something should be done about track cutting and wall grinding.

For those reasons, my most hated tracks to race on are the following (in order):

1. Bernese Alps
2. Yas Marina Circuit
3. Circuit de Spa

Yea the shortcuts on Road Atlanta and the full Indy track are annoying, but it doesn't describe the entire race like the first 3 and ESPECIALLY the first 2 on my list do. So that's why I ask, do you feel that this should be severely limited in Forza 6?
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#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2015 7:06:36 PM(UTC)
I'd rank Spa higher on the abusability scale than Bernese Alps. T2 and Eau Rouge might be the most cheaty corners in the game. Trying to take the correct line through either in MP will usually result in a pileup, when all the cheaters drive into you.

Also, T1 is a wrecker's dream (Nurburgring GP has the same issue).

It's a damn shame, too. Spa is one of the most fun tracks of all, when driven properly.
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Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2015 9:48:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: B Wald Big Mek Go to Quoted Post
I'd rank Spa higher on the abusability scale than Bernese Alps. T2 and Eau Rouge might be the most cheaty corners in the game. Trying to take the correct line through either in MP will usually result in a pileup, when all the cheaters drive into you.

Also, T1 is a wrecker's dream (Nurburgring GP has the same issue).

It's a damn shame, too. Spa is one of the most fun tracks of all, when driven properly.


And abusing Eau Rouge in Spa gives no penalty. You can find videos of what I mean, I won't describe it here for those that don't know, but you can be out to lunch on that corner and not get a dirty lap.

As for punishments, I suggest a spanking and maybe talking to their parents and having a discussion about how you shouldn't cheat because.... .... .... ....yeah, we already have sticky grass, and dirty laps, and I think for now it's enough. No one cars if you have the fastest lap time AND it's dirty because it won't show up on the top of the leaderboard. If you want a good leaderboard spot in the Motorsport game, you need to run a clean lap or hope EVERYONE runs one dirty and that won't happen.

This is more of an online issue I would say, and for that you can report and block people (only report if it's a reportable offense) and then you don't have to play with them. Would you really want to play with these people anyways? By blocking them and not having to race them, you take a quick and user friendly approach to solving the issue and save Turn10 the trouble of having to come up with and enforce systems that take away from other parts of the game. Sure it' be nice, but there is a system in place that works so I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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#4 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2015 1:42:33 AM(UTC)
Something should be considered as it is the most annoying thing when you are clearly the better driver but slower because of a cut (Im looking at you Yas) shame as these are fun tracks when race properly, the only issue with a penalty system such as a slow down, disqualification, credit reductions and so on is as with the average game these day someone aka rammers will abuse this if programmed poorly it could result in penalties due to the innocent driver being pushed out of the way or to avoid an on track incident which makes such as system difficult so what i would suggest is make it an optional lobby setting and possibly have lobbies split (or customer lobbies) into casual and hardcore therefore the rammers will likely flock to the causual anything goes lobby and hardcore racers could enjoy a proper harder core lobby

unlikely as it is to happen its an idea
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2015 5:34:44 AM(UTC)
Hockenheim had some oil slick stuff on the last turn. They should add that all around Yas. In Bernese Alps you need to have ridges in the walls that can be ridden, that way if someone tries to wall ride they will just crash. For Spa I would suggest using the old layout of the track that had a wall along the side of Eau Rouge. That addition could help.

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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:56:53 PM(UTC)
Definitely yes.

Anyone caught wall riding or corner cutting repeatedly should see their XB go up in a puff of foul smelling blue smoke. At the same time MS empties their bank account so the perp can't make his next car repayment so within the week it's repossessed. Not that corner cutting annoys me ....................................................................
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2015 1:43:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ace Ventura PI Go to Quoted Post
Hockenheim had some oil slick stuff on the last turn. They should add that all around Yas. In Bernese Alps you need to have ridges in the walls that can be ridden, that way if someone tries to wall ride they will just crash. For Spa I would suggest using the old layout of the track that had a wall along the side of Eau Rouge. That addition could help.

Great idea. I think oil slick would be the best idea for yas marina. I love that track especially in the lotus e21, but theres always that one guy thats 10 seconds faster than you per lap and for a split second you think that maybe there a great driver but then your realise - your on Yas Marina.
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#8 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2015 10:15:01 PM(UTC)
We need a penalty system in place in general. Corner-cutting should result in a time penalty, not to leaderboard times but to race outcome. If you finish three seconds ahead of me but have twenty-seven seconds of accumulated time penalties, enjoy being credited for last place. Maybe repeat offences could even result in disqualification. As for wall-riding, I don't know if any professional series would feel the need to penalize that as damage should be penalty enough for it, but that would mean races need damage on and for grinding the wall to do more noteworthy damage. It should probably slow cars more than it has, too. I'd imagine scraping a wall would result in heavy resistance.

I want penalties for contact, too, but it needs to be a smart system. In F1, for example, light contact resulting in no real harm seems to generate no penalty, but if it happens a lot it might warrant a penalty. However, if you damage my car, spin me, or run me off, you get a penalty. I want serious offenders disqualified. I don't want disqualified players to continue running but rather immediately removed from the race.
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Rank: R-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2015 7:55:32 AM(UTC)
Contact penalty is simply not going to work, unless it applies to all cars on the track. With Drivatars smashing into your bumper, you could easily get a penalty that you should have not. Add in the fact that the drivatars will not get punished, and you end up in a situation where you are taking every turn wide, just so you don't get rear-ended.

As far as cutting corners, Black flags for anyone that goes all 4 wheels off the track. You either must come to a complete stop to rectify the black flag, or your entire lap does not count. If caused by contact, then you are talking a whole different scenario. I highly doubt that seeing black flags added in a manner of this scale, would ever be implemented in a street car racing scenario.

Having different rules for different car classes, MIGHT be a good solution. I honestly don't think an F-1 car with 3 inches of suspension travel would ever take to the grass on purpose, especially when it sticks to the track like a magnet. Trucks taking a short cut... how about instead, trucks have a truck version of the track, where the corners are optional, orange painted grass would be an acceptable path, regular grass is penalty.

The penalty system, as it stands is already decent, since it invalidates leaderboard times. If you simply want to finish the race first, having an incident penalty, like 4 wheels off track that created a benefit, giving a penalty of -5 seconds, I think could be all that is needed. Having multiple penalty areas, based on the central area of the off-roading, could add an additional 5 seconds. Essentially, nobody would want to cut any corners, if you lost 10 seconds on your lap. at 140mph, 10 seconds is about a quarter mile... Which means any car in your rearview mirror, would overtake your time at finish, provided they did not purposely jump the chicane on LeMans.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2015 8:35:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Wonderpill Go to Quoted Post
Having different rules for different car classes, MIGHT be a good solution. I honestly don't think an F-1 car with 3 inches of suspension travel would ever take to the grass on purpose, especially when it sticks to the track like a magnet. Trucks taking a short cut... how about instead, trucks have a truck version of the track, where the corners are optional, orange painted grass would be an acceptable path, regular grass is penalty.


The truck thing would be nice for some kind of rallying course. I wouldn't want to see that in regular racing though. It would chew up the infield, no real track has it and what happens when I choose to use my GMC Van or Syclone in an online race with Ferrari's and Corvette's?

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#11 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2015 10:25:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ace Ventura PI Go to Quoted Post
Hockenheim had some oil slick stuff on the last turn. They should add that all around Yas. In Bernese Alps you need to have ridges in the walls that can be ridden, that way if someone tries to wall ride they will just crash. For Spa I would suggest using the old layout of the track that had a wall along the side of Eau Rouge. That addition could help.


That would be better than it is now. Another option might be to fill in the area left of Radillion with sand or put in sausage kerbs or rumble strips. They need to do something similar to the chicane at the end. Spa is one of the best tracks there is and it's a shame that it's so easy to cheat.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Sunday, June 7, 2015 6:36:33 PM(UTC)
There is already an anti-cheating system of sorts (sticky grass and the dirty lap system), but it can always be improved so certain sections slow you down more or less depending on how cheaty you can get. For example, at Yas Marina, you hit an oil slick, which causes you to lose control of your car on one cheaty corner, and on another, you hit sand that strayed onto the track, causing loss of traction, or at Silverstone GP Circuit, you hit the grass and get slowed down more the further you get from the center of the track on a cheaty corner. Having the sticky grass graduated depending on distance from track would make it more fair if you just put 2 tires in the grass by taking a turn a bit wide, but more sticky further away from the edge of the track.

Edited by user Sunday, June 7, 2015 6:38:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 1:19:02 PM(UTC)
Yes, there should be. I feel "oil slicks" and "sticky grass" are Band-Aid™ fixes, not permanent solutions. Forza 6 is mostly coded and done though I am crossing my fingers a flagging system is in place; one complete with furled black flags (warnings) and waving black flags to include: stop & go, stop & hold +30, and stop & hold +60 penalties.
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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 1:32:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Avanti 63r1025 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, there should be. I feel "oil slicks" and "sticky grass" are Band-Aid™ fixes, not permanent solutions. Forza 6 is mostly coded and done though I am crossing my fingers a flagging system is in place; one complete with furled black flags (warnings) and waving black flags to include: stop & go, stop & hold +30, and stop & hold +60 penalties.

Thing is though, sometimes people get rammed of the tracks and are forced to corner cut. They would get penalised too though it's not there fault.
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#15 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 3:04:21 PM(UTC)
I have been trying to suggest the "oil slick method for ages now.
Lets see some fact's

Get off the racing line, it's not as clean, therefore it's not as grippy as the driving line. This could be overlooked in Forza, just because this isn't actually real life, and the proper racing line is often quite far from the "suggested line" in forza.

Driving off the track, if it happens on grass or on asphalt, it's slippery. The grass is just more slippery than tarmac, and the tarmac outside the track boundaries is dirty. In both cases your tires get dirty, and that WILL give you dirty tires, which will reduce your grip, and that effect lasts around 1-2 miles! Sure the grip reduction is only around 2-3% but as we are talking about a game here, let's say it's around 5-10% for next 3/4's of a mile.
And of course if you went off the track, 50% grip reduction on grass and 20% on asphalt. If you tried to cut the corner and dared to go full throttle while off track, you highly likely lose control

Driving off the track, sand pit. This slows you down specially if you are going sideways, Digging in to the sand, this of course shouldn't be too drastic near the tracks edge (Remember sedona chicane from FM4) therefore the effect could be reduced in close proximity of the track

How this would effect.
Example you could cut a bit (and get a dirty lap) but you also would get grip reduction for 3/4 mile which will slow you down. therefore if you want to win you won't be able to go as fast, getting on full throttle will highly likely cause loss of grip, which will slow you down even more, and possibly send you off the track, which will slow you down even more.
Basicly it should feel like if you have car on race tires, get off the track, for next 3/4's of a mile you are driving on sport tires.
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#16 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 3:19:11 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Juggernaut Go to Quoted Post
I have been trying to suggest the "oil slick method for ages now.
Lets see some fact's

Get off the racing line, it's not as clean, therefore it's not as grippy as the driving line. This could be overlooked in Forza, just because this isn't actually real life, and the proper racing line is often quite far from the "suggested line" in forza.

Driving off the track, if it happens on grass or on asphalt, it's slippery. The grass is just more slippery than tarmac, and the tarmac outside the track boundaries is dirty. In both cases your tires get dirty, and that WILL give you dirty tires, which will reduce your grip, and that effect lasts around 1-2 miles! Sure the grip reduction is only around 2-3% but as we are talking about a game here, let's say it's around 5-10% for next 3/4's of a mile.
And of course if you went off the track, 50% grip reduction on grass and 20% on asphalt. If you tried to cut the corner and dared to go full throttle while off track, you highly likely lose control

Driving off the track, sand pit. This slows you down specially if you are going sideways, Digging in to the sand, this of course shouldn't be too drastic near the tracks edge (Remember sedona chicane from FM4) therefore the effect could be reduced in close proximity of the track

How this would effect.
Example you could cut a bit (and get a dirty lap) but you also would get grip reduction for 3/4 mile which will slow you down. therefore if you want to win you won't be able to go as fast, getting on full throttle will highly likely cause loss of grip, which will slow you down even more, and possibly send you off the track, which will slow you down even more.
Basicly it should feel like if you have car on race tires, get off the track, for next 3/4's of a mile you are driving on sport tires.

Great idea man! Not hard to implement into the Game either!
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 3:53:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Juggernaut Go to Quoted Post
I have been trying to suggest the "oil slick method for ages now.
Lets see some fact's

Get off the racing line, it's not as clean, therefore it's not as grippy as the driving line. This could be overlooked in Forza, just because this isn't actually real life, and the proper racing line is often quite far from the "suggested line" in forza.

Driving off the track, if it happens on grass or on asphalt, it's slippery. The grass is just more slippery than tarmac, and the tarmac outside the track boundaries is dirty. In both cases your tires get dirty, and that WILL give you dirty tires, which will reduce your grip, and that effect lasts around 1-2 miles! Sure the grip reduction is only around 2-3% but as we are talking about a game here, let's say it's around 5-10% for next 3/4's of a mile.
And of course if you went off the track, 50% grip reduction on grass and 20% on asphalt. If you tried to cut the corner and dared to go full throttle while off track, you highly likely lose control

Driving off the track, sand pit. This slows you down specially if you are going sideways, Digging in to the sand, this of course shouldn't be too drastic near the tracks edge (Remember sedona chicane from FM4) therefore the effect could be reduced in close proximity of the track

How this would effect.
Example you could cut a bit (and get a dirty lap) but you also would get grip reduction for 3/4 mile which will slow you down. therefore if you want to win you won't be able to go as fast, getting on full throttle will highly likely cause loss of grip, which will slow you down even more, and possibly send you off the track, which will slow you down even more.
Basicly it should feel like if you have car on race tires, get off the track, for next 3/4's of a mile you are driving on sport tires.

Great idea man! Not hard to implement into the Game either!


This is just some real life things I have noted, as I personally do have some track experience (3 years of Finnish Folk Racing, 1 season of drifting) + 5 years of rather regular trackday event driving

Mostly I noted it in trackdays as as silly it might sound, at those I had the best car for actually best suited to track racing (Folk racing happens on half tarmac, half gravel tracks). I was clocking my laps, and after I went off the track it often took 2 sometimes even 3 laps to get my times back on the level they were before I went off.
On drifting I noted that after I had slipped my tail off the track a bit, it was pretty hard to contol, as the car was constantly "overturning", and I had to slow down to be able to keep the slide, although this was very temporary as the tires got cleaned pretty fast after the slight extention of track.
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#18 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 4:13:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Juggernaut Go to Quoted Post
I have been trying to suggest the "oil slick method for ages now.
Lets see some fact's

Get off the racing line, it's not as clean, therefore it's not as grippy as the driving line. This could be overlooked in Forza, just because this isn't actually real life, and the proper racing line is often quite far from the "suggested line" in forza.

Driving off the track, if it happens on grass or on asphalt, it's slippery. The grass is just more slippery than tarmac, and the tarmac outside the track boundaries is dirty. In both cases your tires get dirty, and that WILL give you dirty tires, which will reduce your grip, and that effect lasts around 1-2 miles! Sure the grip reduction is only around 2-3% but as we are talking about a game here, let's say it's around 5-10% for next 3/4's of a mile.
And of course if you went off the track, 50% grip reduction on grass and 20% on asphalt. If you tried to cut the corner and dared to go full throttle while off track, you highly likely lose control

Driving off the track, sand pit. This slows you down specially if you are going sideways, Digging in to the sand, this of course shouldn't be too drastic near the tracks edge (Remember sedona chicane from FM4) therefore the effect could be reduced in close proximity of the track

How this would effect.
Example you could cut a bit (and get a dirty lap) but you also would get grip reduction for 3/4 mile which will slow you down. therefore if you want to win you won't be able to go as fast, getting on full throttle will highly likely cause loss of grip, which will slow you down even more, and possibly send you off the track, which will slow you down even more.
Basicly it should feel like if you have car on race tires, get off the track, for next 3/4's of a mile you are driving on sport tires.


I like this idea, except in a few scenarios ...

Not all gamers driving off the track intentionally are good drivers. That is to say that, for those gamers who just aren't all that good, you will now have sloppy drivers dealing with sloppy grip. Sure, for good drivers, this penalty will make them think twice after suffering the degradation; but, dealing with lesser skilled guys and gals reentering the track with less than optimal traction will be increasingly frustrating.

Secondly, you still have to consider drivers who a) are forced off the track by a collision caused by another driver and b) drivers who skillfully make use of the roadsides to avoid pileups (just as in real life). I would like to think Turn 10 could implement some sort of algorithm to afford drivers the leeway needed to avoid penalties when the situation deems necessary; but, I'm guessing that algorithm just isn't something the team wants to start looking into.

To be fair, I just don't think there is a sure-fire way to limit cheating (cutting, riding, and crashing) without the use of a manned race supervisor. Private lobbies seem to me to be the only cure where organizers can police and moderate as needed to ensure the cleanest virtual racing possible and, even then, that isn't perfect.

Edited by user Monday, June 8, 2015 4:15:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#19 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 4:39:51 PM(UTC)
Sure I agree that there is "sloppy" drivers, but I think that just makes them bit more careful, (or rage quit) And agree that is only downside, How ever I think they would want to learn to be better, and that's not a bad thing in my opinion.

What it comes to being bumped off the track or avoiding accident off the track. well, all I can say that is only reality of racing.

Then again, I have personally avoided rear ending someone else bu going off the track, and after returning to track I have been thinking that I shouldn't have this level of grip now. as the mistake was mine, I braked too late. Most common place I have done this lately is hairpin at Sebring, (Sebring club 1st corner) and after I return on to the track I have unleashed 994hp from unrestricted Nascar engine in A class muscle car on sport tires, going full throttle without any traction issues... While in reality it should be just about impossible,even on clean tires unless I have basicly drag setup on my car.
Even half realistic, nope, in fact, pretty far from realistic.
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#20 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 5:30:07 PM(UTC)
They certainly should have something in place for that sort of behaviors

BUT - Make it a switchable option please, some of the most hilarious races Ive had has been with friends and a "there are no rules, go mental" attitude, but for when you want to settle down and race properly, with friends or randoms, then yes, turn those penalties or whatever on, but when you just want mayhem with friends, then turn them off and have at it
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#21 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 8:39:27 PM(UTC)
My opinion is that they should remove all extra sticky and slick surfaces. All paved areas should behave exactly the same as on course areas, and all grass should be equally slick(IE: Road Atlanta "horseshoe")

To prevent cheating, they need to rely solely on the "lap invalidation" feature. They already know when you cut corners, crash into other players, etc. So they could have a strike system using that.
An example of how I might do it: Each lap could have a 3 strike system. Strike 1, is a slight time penalty. Strike 2 is a steeper time penalty. And Strike 3 gives you a DNF. This system gets reset for each lap.

Nothing happens to the disqualified driver, he still remains in the race, he just doesn't get a position. It's up to the lobby creator to turn collisions off, if playing with randoms to avoid the inevitable angry DNF troll. Not to mention, hopefully you'll be able to kick players again.

As for how big the time penalty should be, could depend on the severity of the infraction. They can easily determine how much of the corner you cut. If you only cut the corner with a tire or two off track, no big deal, slap a 1-5 second penalty on there. If you cut the entire corner with all 4 tires, the penalty should be much greater, like 10+ seconds.

They could also ramp up the penalty based on how many strikes you accumulated.. Strikes could be tracked throughout the entire race, and if you cut the same corner every lap, you wont get a DNF but maybe the penalty could grow every strike. Example: Lap 1/strike 1 = 1 second penalty. Lap 2/Strike 1 = 2 second penalty. Lap 3 Strike 1 = 3 second penalty, etc.

My reason for wanting this system is because I'm primarily a tandem drifter. I would like a system that is fair for all types of players. And something like this seems like a better system to accomplish that. I'm sure what I typed out isn't perfect, I didnt spend too long thinking about the specifics, but could be a good start.

Regardless though, I'm sure it's way too late for T10 to implement new ideas into the game.
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#22 Posted: : Monday, June 8, 2015 8:59:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: InSight07 Go to Quoted Post
My opinion is that they should remove all extra sticky and slick surfaces. All paved areas should behave exactly the same as on course areas, and all grass should be equally slick(IE: Road Atlanta "horseshoe")

To prevent cheating, they need to rely solely on the "lap invalidation" feature. They already know when you cut corners, crash into other players, etc. So they could have a strike system using that.
An example of how I might do it: Each lap could have a 3 strike system. Strike 1, is a slight time penalty. Strike 2 is a steeper time penalty. And Strike 3 gives you a DNF. This system gets reset for each lap.

Nothing happens to the disqualified driver, he still remains in the race, he just doesn't get a position. It's up to the lobby creator to turn collisions off, if playing with randoms to avoid the inevitable angry DNF troll. Not to mention, hopefully you'll be able to kick players again.

As for how big the time penalty should be, could depend on the severity of the infraction. They can easily determine how much of the corner you cut. If you only cut the corner with a tire or two off track, no big deal, slap a 1-5 second penalty on there. If you cut the entire corner with all 4 tires, the penalty should be much greater, like 10+ seconds.

They could also ramp up the penalty based on how many strikes you accumulated.. Strikes could be tracked throughout the entire race, and if you cut the same corner every lap, you wont get a DNF but maybe the penalty could grow every strike. Example: Lap 1/strike 1 = 1 second penalty. Lap 2/Strike 1 = 2 second penalty. Lap 3 Strike 1 = 3 second penalty, etc.

My reason for wanting this system is because I'm primarily a tandem drifter. I would like a system that is fair for all types of players. And something like this seems like a better system to accomplish that. I'm sure what I typed out isn't perfect, I didnt spend too long thinking about the specifics, but could be a good start.

Regardless though, I'm sure it's way too late for T10 to implement new ideas into the game.


First corner teds to be mayhem specially in hoppers, you get punted off the track, strike 1.
You rush to catch the pack, go bit wide on one turn but don't lose too much time, strike 2.
Just at the end of the lap you have to avoid a car that had an accident and went wide and is now returning on track, because you avoided an accident you went wide, strike 3.
And this is reality in hoppers. Therefore no reason to continue that race, even though you would be able to finish first with clean driving.

But of course I do agree that my solution wouldn't work for drift lobbys. and in hosted drift lobbys the host should be able to remove the sticky stuff. just because Ive seen how some drifters go intentionally "out of the track" For example, in catalonya, going backwards from the last chicane, and drifting around the painted track name and returning to the chicane...
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#23 Posted : Monday, June 8, 2015 9:55:20 PM(UTC)
What we have now is fine. It just needs to be applied in the right places.
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#24 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2015 12:17:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Thing is though, sometimes people get rammed of the tracks and are forced to corner cut. They would get penalised too though it's not there fault.
Not necessarily. I won't say it's easy though there are ways to have coding determine the "at fault" driver and penalize only them. I think The Shadow Edge summed it up nicely when he said, "… I would like to think Turn 10 could implement some sort of algorithm to afford drivers the leeway needed to avoid penalties when the situation deems necessary; but, I'm guessing that algorithm just isn't something the team wants to start looking into. …"

Originally Posted by: Zeem Frostmaw Go to Quoted Post
What we have now is fine. It just needs to be applied in the right places.
I view what we have now as a temporary fix, applied quickly to mask the issue while a permanent solution is concocted and implemented. Lump me in the group of people Dan has mentioned in interviews when he says things like, "Our fans are passionate" and, "They push us to do more, to be better." Am I frustrated with Forza Motorsport? Absolutely, but I don't hate the product. My frustration is the kind a family member sees in another member; I see potential not being completely extracted.

Forza Motorsport (2005) loading screen wrote:
sim·u·la·tion
A mathematical reproduction of real-world
systems for testing, analysis, or training.
I believe a product, labeled as a simulation with Motorsport in the title, should reflect real-world motorsport attributes: a pace car, a flagging system, stop & go, stop & hold +nn penalties, and the whole nine yards.
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#25 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2015 5:50:21 PM(UTC)
Guys, let's face it, Forza is not a SIMULATIOR, neiter it is arcade, its something in BETWEEN.
"Simcade" is best word that I have seen used from forza motorsport, it's not arcade came that's for sure, it's way too realistic to be arcade game.
Then again it's not simulator it lacks so many real world things, which of implemented, 80-90% of people playing wouldn't buy it, as it is too hard, as they get penalized in every race so hard that they would DNF always, which would cause the game price going up to +200$ and after that no-one would buy it.

Therefore we need a system that penalizes, but not to be realisticly too harsh. Sticky/slicky stuff is the best form of doing it. this would eventually cause massive weight change, where motorsport would be the game for few, and horizon being the main product as that's the game all casuals would be playing.

Turn 10 is walking a fine line, trying to please a big audience, but still keep the 10-20% of hardcore racing fans in here, and they are doing pretty good job doing it. (Even though FM5 was rushed and ended up having some bugs and being rather small game)

Back on topic.
As I said Sticky/Slicky stuff is the best way of controlling the shortcutters and wallriders, it's far from perfect, but it's the best what I can think of. (Trying to think it from T10's perspective)
The problem is that you cannot put that sticky stuff to everywhere (remember indy GP last corner and Sedona Chicane from FM4) which penalizes from extremely minor mistake, and usually caused more harm than good. Then again on alps is wallriding heaven and Yas Marina being corner cutting heaven, not to mention Spa and Yas with their "legal" shortcuts

Dirty laps will keep leaderboards in check, which is great, but what about lobbys, yuo can cut and wallride as much as you please and win the race unless there is some sort of other penalty created, and sticky/slicky stuff is best on this. Realistic? Absolutely no. other options?
-Power cut limited speed after going off track
-Drive trough penalty, in 3 lap race = 100% sure last place, and how to force the driver to go on the pit, "invisible wall"? AI taking over 300feet before pit entry?
And why you went off the track,
-To avoid an accident?
-Someone bumped you off?
-Someone lag bumped you off?
-You missed a braking point and went wide?
-You intentionally shortcutted?
There is just too many variables which only human can see.

I have been stewarding multiple online races I have checked hundreds of videos in many angles and specially in FM5 I have hated how I cant check the telemetry from the cars in those replays.
These videos have been taken by races who have made the inquirys of shortcutters in series'es and accidents in series'es
And even for me it has occasionally been quite hard to see is there a reason for penalty, For computer, it's just as hard, which would make the "algorithm to afford drivers the leeway needed to avoid penalties when the situation deems necessary" would have to be so large that it would almost take more space than FM5 currently takes. As it has to take in to account occasionally what 6 or more cars 200 feet in front of the "shortcutting" car is doing counting reaction times, When was the first indication for the driver of the "shotcutting" car had, Did he have another option? was this option even relevant? Who made the intial mistake which caused one car to go off the track? or was it lag related? ETC...

That's just too complicated, and with even one little bug it might end up being more harmful than good. Therefore I don't see that as an option.

Kicking and Blocking shortcutters is of course one option but pretty soon we would have no-one to race, as we are blocked by quite many people, and we have blocked quite many people, and then we see hopper size being 3-5 cars, which to me sounds boring.

Banning? or temp banning, that would decrease the playerbase very fast, and isn't viable

Which leads as back to the main question, sticky/slicky grass. Therefore I'd say sticky/slicky grass is only viable option left, it's not fun but I don't see any other way to do it. and that's why I want to see it done right.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 9, 2015 5:58:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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