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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Saturday, January 16, 2021 1:04:48 PM(UTC)
As of recently I had a breakthrough in finally understanding how drive types (engine position and drivetrain) affect tuning.

I've updated Part 1 - Forza Tuning Basics and Part 2 - General Tuning with regard to drive types and AWD / FWD tuning in particular.

TL;DR

The FR (front engine rear wheel drive) drive type is the most weight balanced drive type and requires an overall neutral setup.

Drive types with more front weight bias (FF, MF, F4D) require an overall understeer setup with higher front camber and higher accel / lower decel.

Drive types with more rear weight bias (MR, M4D, R4D, RR) require an overall oversteer setup with higher rear camber and lower accel / higher decel.

Edited by user Sunday, January 17, 2021 2:03:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#27 Posted : Wednesday, March 3, 2021 12:35:36 PM(UTC)
I had a misconception regarding Full Grip and Full Speed builds and chassis reinforcement upgrades. For Full Grip and Full Speed builds only tire width is relevant which has been corrected in Part 3 - Grip and Speed Tuning and Part 5 - Balance and Stiffness Tuning.

TL;DR

Full Grip builds are considered builds that use maximum tire width front and rear.
Full Grip builds require extra soft and oversteer tuning.

Full Speed builds are considered builds that use stock (minimum) tire width front and rear.
Full Speed builds require extra stiff and understeer tuning.

Edited by user Saturday, March 6, 2021 9:17:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#28 Posted : Sunday, May 16, 2021 5:44:36 AM(UTC)


Just saw the part about drivetrain in your tuning-guide. Man, where do you get this from? Free fantasy? Well you gave me a good laugh at least.




Gt: fairlane305
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#29 Posted : Monday, May 17, 2021 11:35:00 AM(UTC)
unfairlane64 wrote:
Just saw the part about drivetrain in your tuning-guide. Man, where do you get this from? Free fantasy? Well you gave me a good laugh at least.​

Any specifics you wanna share? Maybe I can have a laugh too.

Edited by user Monday, May 17, 2021 11:40:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Monday, May 17, 2021 7:13:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fifty Inch Go to Quoted Post
unfairlane64 wrote:
Just saw the part about drivetrain in your tuning-guide. Man, where do you get this from? Free fantasy? Well you gave me a good laugh at least.​

Any specifics you wanna share? Maybe I can have a laugh too.



Oh you will not understand but I can give some comments on your drivertrain advices since I brought it up.

Her we go:


Drivetrain
Drivetrain upgrades deal with improving transferring the engine power to the wheels.


Transmission

​The Transmission is the core component of the drivetrain and translates engine rotations into wheel rotations by using gear ratios.
Having a sport transmission allows to adjust the overall ratio via final drive. A race transmission allows you to additionally adjust single gear ratios.

​For best handling upgrading the transmission is required once you upgrade the engine beyond a certain amount of power:

Street transmission is required for cars with >= 200hp

Sport transmission is required for cars with a power that exceeds stock power by at least 100hp

Race transmission is required for cars with a power that exceeds stock power by at least 200hp

​Also for best handling the transmission should match the highest installed engine upgrade except exhaust.

​If the transmission doesn't match power balance issues are introduced. If the transmission is too high for car power an understeer issue is
created on the front and the back of the car, if the transmission is too low for car power an oversteer issue is created on the front and the back
of the car.

​To learn more about balance issues and how they can be remedied have a look at my Forza 7 Tuning Guide - Part 5 Balance and Stiffness Tuning,



- what you claim here about power vs gearbox is pure nonsese. Understeer??? Man, where do you take this from?
IRL though any gearbox will have it`s powerhandling limit, as will clutches. Matching gearbox and exhaust?
First I`m facinated about how you can come up with these fantasies, but mybe even more it is unvbelieveable
that noone reacts. Picking the best gearing is an important way to upgrade a car.
And while talking of gearboxes, a racegearbox would be a waste on a slow revving engine with a heavy
flywheel. Flywheels & clutches should be matched if you knew a bit of what you were doing.


Clutch and Driveline

​The Clutch is the input connection for the transmission that connects the transmission with the engine while the Driveline is
the output connection of the transmission that connects the transmission with the Differential.

​For best handling clutch and driveline should match the transmission.

​If driveline and clutch don't match the transmission balance issues are introduced. If the clutch is higher than the transmission an
understeer issue is created on the front and the back of the car, if the clutch is lower than the transmission an understeer issue is
created on the front and the back of the car. If the driveline is higher than the transmission an oversteer issue is created on the
back of the car, if the driveline is lower than the transmission an understeer issue is created on the back of the car.



It is obviously that you have never upgraded any car IRL. Handling? Match transmission? Pure b.s. Upgrading the clutch speeds up
gearshifts and thereby reduces the interval where the engine is decoupled, the time when the car looses momentum & speed falls.
All you seems to understand is the weight-difference, wich in this case is of minor interest bcs it`s only small differences.

And here we go again, " ​If driveline and clutch don't match the transmission balance issues are introduced. If the clutch is higher
than the transmission an understeer issue is created.." And people believe this? "The car understeers because it has the
wrong gearbox"?

​ What you say about engine- and chassie upgrading is pure nonsense too. All it comes to in this game is power vs weight,
and how to get as much tourque as possible if you have the rubber to connect.
An example:

If the Flywheel doesn't match engine upgrades balance issues are introduced. If the flywheel is higher than the highest
engine upgrade except exhaust an oversteer issue is created on the front of the car, if the flywheel is lower than the highest
engine upgrade except exhaust an understeer issue is created on the front of the car.


Seriously, do you really believe this? As said over, upgrading to a lighter flywheel reduces the engines rise-time & by that
it will match a fast shifting clutch/gearbox.

"For best handling clutch and driveline should match the transmission." - meaning you have no idea of what you are
talking about. clutch is about faster gearshits, driveline is about weight-reduction. And we could go on..






Gt: fairlane305
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Tuesday, May 18, 2021 2:24:50 PM(UTC)
You are probably right when it comes to upgrading in RL. But I’m talking strictly Forza here which merely resembles and simplifies many tuning and upgrading aspects as compared to RL.

In RL for example it probably doesn’t make sense that upgrading displacement or pistons higher than exhaust (in terms of street, sport, race) creates an imbalance yet in Forza it does. Hell in RL there isn’t even the notion of street, sport or race upgrades really. It’s a game after all.

And these things I don’t believe in - I know them. It has been proven numerous times now. In fact understanding how upgrades work is even more important than tuning when it comes to lap time. It’s one of the main reasons I could improve my performance in the HLR Hot Lap Competitions which you may want to checkout in this forum.

I didn’t become a better driver, maybe a slightly better tuner but definitely a much better builder.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 18, 2021 4:10:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Tuesday, May 18, 2021 9:13:47 PM(UTC)

I am talking about ingame tuning only and I`m pointing out this because it is 100% misleading.
There is no "imbalance" limits to what you can do to an engine ingame, and whatever you do it will not
"make the car understeer". A minus 100kg engineswap will change things a bit but not a minus 1-2kg flywheel.

Try to just upgrade to a sport flywheel on a stock engine and then upgrade the clutch/gearbox equivalent.
It transforms the engine, makes it a lot more responsive. This has nothing to do with car balance.


Gt: fairlane305
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Wednesday, May 19, 2021 6:26:08 AM(UTC)
You are right most balance or stiffness issues can be tuned out by simply applying reverse settings when tuning, which is the very reason I'm explaining it here. When you're tuning pure by feel you probably wont notice since you will intuitively correct them in the tuning process.

There are however issues that can't be tuned out most notably certain engine upgrade combinations that lead to inherent handling issues.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Tuesday, July 13, 2021 2:15:18 PM(UTC)
I've made some changes to several parts of the tuning guide:

TLDR

Part 3 - Grip and Speed Tuning

Aero
High Power cars (>=400hp) require higher rear aero
Full Grip builds require higher rear aero than regular builds
Full Speed builds require lower rear aero than regular builds


Part 4 - Track Specific Tuning

Alignment
Race tracks require lower camber and higher caster
Road tracks require higher camber and lower caster

Brakes
Race tracks require higher brake pressure
Road tracks require lower brake pressure

Aero
High Power cars (>=400hp) require higher rear aero


Parts 5 - Balance and Stiffness Tuning

Several changes in General Balance and Stiffness Issues as well as Track Specific Balance and Stiffness Issues

Edited by user Tuesday, July 13, 2021 10:53:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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