Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 4:14:19 PM(UTC)
Hi all,
This is it... I need to say how frustrated I am but mostly because it's the truth, the games in arenas are just ****.
The system put in place is harmful to the pleasure of the players.
I couldn't count the number of games I've played, but every time I play, it's the same pattern that repeats itself. As soon as one member of a team feels defeat approaching, he leaves the game and makes the points won by the victorious team useless.
I don't understand why Turn10 Studios did this! In my opinion it discourages all the players who like this kind of game... Including me.
I have expressed my feeling through the support but I think that if it stays only my opinion, it will be useless.
What is your feeling about these games ?
Do you share the same situation?
Thanks for giving your feedbacks.

Ben

Rank: Driver's License
#2 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 5:11:23 PM(UTC)
YES!!! They S. U. C. K. !!! ................... but what do I know? I am just a poor, corrupt, Government Official! :)

Edited by user Saturday, November 14, 2020 5:14:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 5:53:56 PM(UTC)
I always find it puzzling that every complaint about the game is directed at "Turn 10 Studios" while every praise is directed at "Playground Games".
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: Driver's License
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 6:33:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
I always find it puzzling that every complaint about the game is directed at "Turn 10 Studios" while every praise is directed at "Playground Games".


REALY!!! I honestly didn't even realize that the O.P. mentioned that. I just knew, that even though I really like the Game, I don't like that part of it (The Arena Games). No problemo, there is lot's to do here, so I just ignore that part of it.
Great Grandpa Nemo, over and out. ................. Bogies at 12 o'clock .... ZOOM! rata tat tat! ....ZOOM! rata tat tat! :)

Edited by user Saturday, November 14, 2020 6:46:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#5 Posted : Sunday, November 15, 2020 1:28:59 AM(UTC)
Maybe it's actually that contrast that frustrates me because I'm a big fan of Forza. I have the last two editions (FH4 and FM7) and I confess to playing a lot of hours. I'm also looking forward to FM8 and I'm sure I'll be one of the people who'll buy it when it comes out.
But, despite this positive side, this part of the game is not at the same level.
I think that if a developer read these lines, and asked objectively himself the question, they would understand that they can still improve the experience for players.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 2:35:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SerpentSouris26 Go to Quoted Post
Maybe it's actually that contrast that frustrates me because I'm a big fan of Forza. I have the last two editions (FH4 and FM7) and I confess to playing a lot of hours. I'm also looking forward to FM8 and I'm sure I'll be one of the people who'll buy it when it comes out.
But, despite this positive side, this part of the game is not at the same level.
I think that if a developer read these lines, and asked objectively himself the question, they would understand that they can still improve the experience for players.


🤔 Dare I say the real problem with Horizon is the players. Yes, there are design flaws and broken bits throughout, but most of that stuff (w exception of complex PI) should be easy fixes (or workable solutions we could have gotten if devs prioritized differently)... and if all the outstanding issues were instantly fixed, online gameplay – whether playground games, online adventures, or otherwise – would still largely be a toxic, obnoxious, vehicular jihad of an experience.

In this situation, being forced into playing as a team where "success" relies on the cooperation with random, heathen players just isn't a whole lot of fun. It's one thing to be teamed with a convoy of random Stephen King "Christines" and the only goal is simply to race from point A to point B...but it's another thing entirely to wage an organized war against a similar convoy of the insane but also participate as deaf mutes lacking any reasonable or sophisticated means of communication for chance coordination (beyond the myriad of inane and audibly weak vanity horns and snotty thought bubbles that were designed to instigate and annoy rather than to coordinate and engage). Teammates you don't need a Ouija board to talk to either bring along an untuned D500 jalopy and do nothing or they dart about, interfering with EVERYONE, seemingly unaware that there are even teams; both are totally useless.

That said, the selfish weaklings that quit out for whatever pithy reasons do nothing but blow it all up for the rest of Team Ouija; their personal time and experience is the only thing that matters to them. They want to preserve their time/experience at the cost of every one else unlucky enough to get paired with them. Often simple things like choosing an appropriate car and/or an appropriate tune for that arena, non-stock paint to help distinguish players, can make a big difference and keep a team looking competitive and stave off bail out moments.

But I will concede the old solo games were far more satisfying than even winning with teams here. In solo, its all up to you, win or lose... You can not win and still enjoy the sport, have a great time. But when winning is tied to relying on whatever random trash that gets blown your way, your personal effort regardless how valiant is less relevant and enjoying the sport harder to do when outcomes depend on casual sociopaths.

Edited by user Monday, November 16, 2020 2:38:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#7 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 4:11:53 PM(UTC)
Very interesting thoughts...
But I think it is too much.

I don't know if we are sociopaths... Certainly there are. Just like players who don't have the same goal at all when they, like you, launched the matchmaking request. But it is respected.
Myself, a rather solitary heart, I saw the significance of a risky inscription and came to play more particularly with people that I "fought" at first but who allowed me to see that they shared the same desire. And this without having to exchange verbally.
But that's not the fundamental problem, no.
What bothers me is how easy it is for players who see defeat coming and who, in the last few seconds, if they haven't concluded the unfavourable end that awaits them faster, leave the game to preserve their points.
What makes me upset, is the injustice of those selfish ones.
When only one of teammates leave, none teammates will lost nothing when ALL winners will be penalized.
So to resume winners are loosers and losses are winners.
And like the snake that bites its own tail, each person who leaves prematurely contribute on repeating the pattern by others. Because of the real effect in score.
They kill the spirit of the game but above all the fairplay of the other players.
Recently, after writing the initial post, I found myself in a risky team. I saw the defeat coming but each of my teammates of one day stayed until the end. And as the end approached, I wondered, if after all, since it is the rule, I should not leave the game prematurely to preserve my score which after dozens of games has not evolved in any way. At least, I stayed and I lost points.

I don't want to go into the details of the developers' priorities. They are professionals, with limited objectives, means and time. On the other hand, their main goal , and key success for their products, is to entertain the players.
And according to this, I think there is a weakness in playground games.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 6:49:19 PM(UTC)
I am indeed, a bit much 😄

And overly verbose, I know. And you're right, we're not ALL monsters. In retrospect, I intended to counter a specific point but my focus shifted to bemoaning games, playlist games, Trial, and their matchmaking as I segued into Verboseland. I also spent the better part of the last 48 hours in various lobbies watching trashy heathens ram, slam, and harass everything that moved, so no doubt that inadvertently fueled some of that text.

But I hear you, the selfish ones violating the spirit of the game. They exploit team adventure and ranked team adventure scoring the same way if it suits them. But I would say it's the scoring issues that's upset you and provoked subsequent undesirable behaviors from others compounding the problem....rather than playground games is all wrong, full stop.
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#9 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 11:26:25 PM(UTC)
Yes you are right. The only weakness I see in playgroud games is the scoring. That is the part that which is not relevant. Once again, I would like to say that I love Forza, and playgroud games are my favorite, until the time of the game ended ;)
Let's see what will happen...
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:22:33 AM(UTC)
Why it's PG's fault that players are rage quitting? Appeal to the players not the devs.

I mean, PG could implement a system for punishing rage quitters but that would result in lots of whine and hate, as always.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:23:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#11 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:48:29 AM(UTC)
In every system you will have some people who are not satisfied. That is not the discussion... It is a fact that all people in all activities encounter.
Developers should follow basics, what is the best for the most part of players.
Let me ask you a question :
Why playing if only one player can block all competitors by not playing but just leaving the game?
We don't talk about players levels or skills. This is the game !
But quitting the game to not being scored is not playing.
Or we should ask to rename the playground games into quit or die ?
That could be more revelant.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 3:50:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:22:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Why it's PG's fault that players are rage quitting? Appeal to the players not the devs.

I mean, PG could implement a system for punishing rage quitters but that would result in lots of whine and hate, as always.


They should just give the Ai the ability to play the games.
Rank: Racing Permit
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:12:53 AM(UTC)
Yeah it sucks sometimes but who cares its a Game so have fun.
Only Problem is the Matchmaking and the idea of "Favored/Stacked" vs "Underdog/Weak" Teams sometimes Ppl are scared by the Levels and they leave at Start before trying. Sometimes it easier when u a re alone in a Team vs 5 or 6 Ppl. Ok it must keep the Points until next Race wich means not loosing the round where "everyone" quits.

Sometimes it feels like everyone is ur enemy even Teammates when there is nothing to Win in unranked (+5k Influence only) but learned to stay cool its fun and only a Game. Join my Team and have fun :D

But cant play Ranked TeamAdventures atm there is some Bug and its not saving the Points

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:21:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:53:26 AM(UTC)

Thats some real issue when Game decides not giving Points look at second from top he finished as 5. with 0 Points seen many times. In this case it wasnt removed from overall Points.
Or when u finish in front of one and Game says he was in front. So yeah fun can be increased when Bugs gets fixed (but think this will never happen)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:44:14 AM(UTC)
You do know you can win the prize on offer weather you win or lose now and its the first team to score 3 points, no longer goes to 5 unless your drawing on points.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:57:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PinkiePie4997 Go to Quoted Post

Thats some real issue when Game decides not giving Points look at second from top he finished as 5. with 0 Points seen many times. In this case it wasnt removed from overall Points.
Or when u finish in front of one and Game says he was in front. So yeah fun can be increased when Bugs gets fixed (but think this will never happen)


He was penliazed because he left the game before the end. The drawback is that he penalized all of his teammates. For me, it is a normal situation.

The starting point of this discussion is Ranked Team Adventures - Arenas.

I understand that somestimes there is a huge difference between teams, but that is the "team" aspect of the game. I personnally and finally found friends to play with as it is required when you want to progress. That can avoid to have an enemy being part of your teammates, which is, I confess, the worst ! :)

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:00:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:21:19 PM(UTC)
The playground games are the most annoying. I only play them to finish the forzathon. First, I just suck at them. Sometimes I do ok, but mostly get my ***. kicked. Second, they just take too long. Just glad decided to make it so you just need to participate. One of the best updates to the game.
Rank: Racing Permit
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:02:08 PM(UTC)
Yes, PlaygroundGames (5 Events) is hard sometimes and after few Games my Head is exploding. Lvl 6 on Starmap because its ' **** '. Ok had fun in some seasonal PlaygroundGames Mortimers-Gardens with the Trucks was good played twice. Everything can be great/fun in the Game but the actual state is bad.

PlaygroundGames (5 Events repeated event)
StreetRace (3 Events there was some "remove freeroam from races" so it was removed)
Dirt/CrossCountry (5 Events)

So everything was set to 5 Events but the basic idea wasnt the best and its messed up now.

Think it can be much better when FreeroamRush gets own "Game" with more random Locations and/or diff Player Startlocations. Its the fairest thing in the Game everyone can win (but sucks when u know every location). Streetraces must be set to 5 again its too short sometimes when u have 2 Sprints its done in 5min playtime. PlaygroundGames can be more fun when splitted in single Games. Player selects one of them (CTF/King/Infected) and instead of playing everything on same Playground it switches the Playground after each round. So you play Infected on Railyard (2times red/blue) next round is infected on Castle and so on.

And it needs some change in the Carstuff atm its A, B, S1, S2 only for races and Player use the same Cars. Think its much better when there are Events with fixed Cars and C, D Cars then it depends on Skills/Tune. Even when 2 of the 5 Events are fixed to some Car its much better. But with fun things too Dirt with some fixed HyperCar or everyone in the P50 and so on


--
Good vs Bad should be integrated as Game wich allows ppl play cops vs racer or something like this. Same as king or infected but on the whole Map or Portions of the Map or same as Elimator with custom Startpoint and shrinking map
And Autoball (Soccer with Cars)

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:31:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:10:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Why it's PG's fault that players are rage quitting? Appeal to the players not the devs.

I mean, PG could implement a system for punishing rage quitters but that would result in lots of whine and hate, as always.


Penalizing players for leaving early? Not going to happen in a game that gives disconnect error constantly. But can they see if the player disconnected or quited through the pause menu? Well yes they can but then anyone will cut their internet connection whenever they want to quit.

If pg implement a mid-game quit penalty, they have to fix the annoying disconnects errors. Ranked used to have that penalty but players were unfairly keep getting penalty because of those non stop disconnects.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:14:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#20 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:05:44 PM(UTC)
II'd rather prefer penalizing players for leaving early through the pause menu instead of penalizing all others. Even if some of them I'll be as stupid as disconnect them form internet for not being scored.
And I can understand that unstable connections can be significant as much as they can not apply this single rule easily.
But at this time, most part of the games I played in ranked team adventures (arenas) did not modify my score in every way... what's is the interest into a "ranked" game if you can not modify your score ?


Rank: S-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 6:02:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Why it's PG's fault that players are rage quitting? Appeal to the players not the devs.

I mean, PG could implement a system for punishing rage quitters but that would result in lots of whine and hate, as always.


If people just play and quit, it's because they don't find the mode very fun...

Should never have been in the Playlist in the first place.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 6:27:48 PM(UTC)
I just had a conversation with my coworkers this morning on the topic of competitive game modes and how they can ruin games, especially when they're forced or strongly encouraged. It might be anecdotal, but I've talked with a lot more people who dislike these sorts of game modes than who actually enjoy them.

Unfortunately they make for good content for streamers/influencers (the real target audience of the game so they can provide free advertising) so unfun content and game modes still get way more dev attention than they should.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: Driver's Permit
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:03:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ViperousRhyme84 Go to Quoted Post
The playground games are the most annoying. I only play them to finish the forzathon. First, I just suck at them. Sometimes I do ok, but mostly get my ***. kicked. Second, they just take too long. Just glad decided to make it so you just need to participate. One of the best updates to the game.


This was a great update. I was totally unaware they did this until four weeks ago by accident. I used to travel a lot for my job (pre-2020), so the Festival Playlist was something I would pick and choose events as my time was limited. I don't like Playground Games and haven't met anyone who does.

That said, gamers always drop out of any online game if things aren't going well. I'm used to it. My biggest issue with this mode is the matchmaking itself. I was working on my Star Card and loaded up a match that started 2 v 2 for the first two rounds. At round three, four new players joined the other team. So, it was 6 v 2 for the rest of the match. My teammate and I stayed all five rounds and suffered through it.

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