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Rank: R-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 1:31:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: canyonblue737 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jameshyatt Go to Quoted Post
I noticed this right away. Really liked the atmosphere they added to night races. Wasn't expecting any downgrades from the One X version even at 60fps.

But it's not there :D


Things can be noticeable by their absence as well as their presence.


Originally Posted by: jameshyatt Go to Quoted Post
I noticed this right away. Really liked the atmosphere they added to night races. Wasn't expecting any downgrades from the One X version even at 60fps.


According to someone on another forum, the SX does have it. Is it possible you are mistaken, or maybe there is an update you haven't yet downloaded?


It's missing from RACES but is present if you are just driving around the world. there a whole host of "quality" graphics settings from the One X version that have been turned off in the S/X version... its not just dynamic headlights.



Yep indeed I just watched the DF video, was very interesting. I'm happy to be on PC so it doesn't affect me anyway.
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#27 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:18:55 PM(UTC)
So I wasn't going mad. Obviously a patch for a two year old game is welcome but I did also just drop £450 on a console Microsoft have been at pains to market as a generational leap.

If you can't hit 60fps with the same graphical features please don't remove my choice to decide which I prefer.
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#28 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:27:44 PM(UTC)
If dynamic shadows and screen space ambient occlusion can't hit 60 at 4K, I'd be glad to choose between lower fps or lower resolution so I could play the game with the same or better visual settings as the Xbox one X. I think it would be better if they kept this one on backwards compatibility than updating to the new consoles just to hit the 4K 60fps, that alone don't make the game look and play any better than it already is on current gen consoles. It looks worse than what we have on One X and that's a bad thing. This really pushed me away from upgrading my One X to Series X.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 6:22:14 PM(UTC)
Yeah it was a surprise to see that this was a downgraded upgrade. I was also surprised to hear that they outsourced the patch. Oh well, maybe by the time most of us can even get hold of the new consoles, it might be sorted :)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#30 Posted : Thursday, November 12, 2020 7:27:40 PM(UTC)
Playground did a really, really good job with the FH3 enhanced patch. There was a lighting bug in interior view, but it was promptly fixed. The game still looks gorgeous.

With FH4 they droppd the ball in a way I simply can't understand. It begins with outsourcing the patch, while sibling studios like Coalition didn't do that with their games. Then the patch is somehow graphically worse.

Either the monster Xbox Series X isn't so much a monster as we thought, or the team that did the optimization foolishly picked native 4K over dynamic res + better effects.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#31 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 3:28:22 AM(UTC)
XSX is a monster for sure but somebody has problem in their studios for a long time. Halo Infinite is just one example.

Edited by user Friday, November 13, 2020 3:29:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#32 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 5:41:06 AM(UTC)
It is disappointing but since DF called it out, there's a decent chance it might get fixed. To be honest I didn't notice until it was brought up on reddit. I notice the niceties while driving around but during races I'm too busy trying to win to notice something like that. The extra splash screen for the studio that handled the patch makes the game load about five seconds slower than it did on my X1X with an ssd, so that's a little annoying. One other thing that sucks is that the thumbnail for the game in the dashboard looks like **** when it never did before.

Oh, and my ultimate edition crown has reverted to vip again but as someone mentioned above, at least they didn't break the game with this update. I was pleasantly surprised.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:05:38 AM(UTC)
Those splash screens at the start are asinine... they could slash the loading times by just getting rid of those, or letting us skip them.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#34 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:10:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Playground did a really, really good job with the FH3 enhanced patch. There was a lighting bug in interior view, but it was promptly fixed. The game still looks gorgeous.

With FH4 they droppd the ball in a way I simply can't understand. It begins with outsourcing the patch, while sibling studios like Coalition didn't do that with their games. Then the patch is somehow graphically worse.

Either the monster Xbox Series X isn't so much a monster as we thought, or the team that did the optimization foolishly picked native 4K over dynamic res + better effects.


I have ZERO doubt the Series X can handle every graphical bell and whistle the One X did at 4k/30 at 4k/60. I think this is nothing other than a rushed outsourced patch. Turn 10 is likely smashed with trying to get Forza Motorsport (the whole new game as a service that will be the underpinning of the entire new generation) by holiday 2021 (although its certainly possible it goes to 2022) along with having split teams to develop Fable. The problem is FH4 is beloved, and if you have claim to have upgraded it and the end result is it looks worse that embarrassing. I'm sure like mess ups in the past it will be fixed in time but for whatever reason, pandemic or poor planning, it seems the entire Xbox Series S/X launch is a story of unbelievably good hardware, an industry changing coming out party for GamePass, and a **** hum list of games that just didn't quite make it or have issues. It will get better.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#35 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:13:29 AM(UTC)
Turn 10 is the developer for Motorsport. Playground Games handles Horizon and now Fable as well.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:23:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: canyonblue737 Go to Quoted Post
I have ZERO doubt the Series X can handle every graphical bell and whistle the One X did at 4k/30 at 4k/60.

I don't think there's zero doubt about that. It's 12 TFLOPS vs 6 TFLOPS, so in theory it has double the performance, but the performance relative to TFLOPS depends on architecture, so it isn't necessarily twice as powerful. E.g. if you compare a 3070 to 2080Ti, it's 20 TFLOPS vs 13.5 TFLOPS yet they have similar performance.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:47:41 AM(UTC)
Doesn't the cpu have a bigger effect on frame rate? On a lot of BC games the frame rate is automatically doubled by the more powerful cpu. The gpu should then be used to spruce up the graphics. It doesn't seem like a massive undertaking considering the required assets and effects already exist on pc.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:57:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
Doesn't the cpu have a bigger effect on frame rate?

The CPU in Xbox Series X shouldn't be a factor for FH4 at 60fps. It could potentially be a limiter for 120fps. I'm basing that statement on what I see for the CPU performances parts of the benchmark on PC with a Ryzen 5 3600, where it can have a minimum that is below 120fps, depending on settings (some graphics settings change CPU use).
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 6:59:03 AM(UTC)
There is talk that the game stutters more than the Xbox One X version did, even though it is using lower settings.

Perhaps this article from earlier in the year sheds some light - it could be that the Series X's complicated architecture was a corner-cutting measure too far by Microsoft.

Quote:
In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory. This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell. From Microsoft's perspective, it is still a unified memory system, even if performance can vary. "In conversations with developers, it's typically easy for games to more than fill up their standard memory quota with CPU, audio data, stack data, and executable data, script data, and developers like such a trade-off when it gives them more potential bandwidth," says Goossen.

It sounds like a somewhat complex situation, especially when Microsoft itself has already delivered a more traditional, wider memory interface in Xbox One X - but the notion of working with much faster GDDR6 memory presented some challenges. "When we talked to the system team there were a lot of issues around the complexity of signal integrity and what-not," explains Goossen. "As you know, with the Xbox One X, we went with the 384[-bit interface] but at these incredible speeds - 14gbps with the GDDR6 - we've pushed as hard as we could and we felt that 320 was a good compromise in terms of achieving as high performance as we could while at the same time building the system that would actually work and we could actually ship."

https://www.eurogamer.ne...xbox-series-x-full-specs
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#40 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 8:33:12 AM(UTC)
You can skip the splash screens, just press a button.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 12:01:42 PM(UTC)
I'm very disappointed with this state of this game on Series X. It is the only game on launch of Series X that I cared about, considering there is absolutely zero launch next gen titles.

I sold my X1X and bought a XSX, and I'm truly disappointed. The game looks worse at 4k than it did on X1X. Even though it's at 60fps now, there's a random microstutter that ruins it. My wheel no longer works properly, Panic Button messed that up somehow.
What is with the motion blur?!?
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#42 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 12:25:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
There is talk that the game stutters more than the Xbox One X version did, even though it is using lower settings.

Perhaps this article from earlier in the year sheds some light - it could be that the Series X's complicated architecture was a corner-cutting measure too far by Microsoft.

Quote:
In terms of how the memory is allocated, games get a total of 13.5GB in total, which encompasses all 10GB of GPU optimal memory and 3.5GB of standard memory. This leaves 2.5GB of GDDR6 memory from the slower pool for the operating system and the front-end shell. From Microsoft's perspective, it is still a unified memory system, even if performance can vary. "In conversations with developers, it's typically easy for games to more than fill up their standard memory quota with CPU, audio data, stack data, and executable data, script data, and developers like such a trade-off when it gives them more potential bandwidth," says Goossen.

It sounds like a somewhat complex situation, especially when Microsoft itself has already delivered a more traditional, wider memory interface in Xbox One X - but the notion of working with much faster GDDR6 memory presented some challenges. "When we talked to the system team there were a lot of issues around the complexity of signal integrity and what-not," explains Goossen. "As you know, with the Xbox One X, we went with the 384[-bit interface] but at these incredible speeds - 14gbps with the GDDR6 - we've pushed as hard as we could and we felt that 320 was a good compromise in terms of achieving as high performance as we could while at the same time building the system that would actually work and we could actually ship."

https://www.eurogamer.ne...xbox-series-x-full-specs

It's similar to a GTX 970. If it gets above the 13.5GB, the game will start to stutter unless the optimization is pristine.

It would be surprising if not amusing if the PS5 actually delivered more consistent performance across the board but we need to wait for more games to judge, especially when Gears 5 was a really sublime job on Coalition's part.

Biggest issue with an outsourced patch, besides the terrible PR regarding one of your premier franchises, is who will provide support for bugs in the patch. Who will fix things like microstuttering? That's the real question one should ask themself!

In fact it's the question Ralph Fulton (CD at Playground for Horizon franchise) and Phil Spencer should've asked themselves before simply giving away one of their premier exclusives to a third-party studio as if it was a Crackdown-tier game.

Edited by user Friday, November 13, 2020 12:33:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#43 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 12:44:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BA1N0 Go to Quoted Post
You can skip the splash screens, just press a button.


Are we talking about the same thing? You can't skip them on PC.
Rank: Driver's License
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#44 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 12:54:48 PM(UTC)
Very very disappointing outsourced rush of a job this XSX patch is. No headlight shadows, no SSAO, driver model animates at 30FPS (lol), etc. I don't even think some of these omissions were intentional, it could be that outsourcing company employees simply lack attention to detail. They botched Playground's masterpiece. They don't understand that all these little tiny details MATTER. That's why Playground painstakingly puts them into their games.

Let's take Gear 5 for example. XSX patch improved on everything, even better graphical features than PC version (which will be patched into PC as well). Improved lighting, improved polycount, improved textures, etc. etc. When you compare what sort of effort into Gears 5 as opposed to FH4, you quickly realize FH4 was just a rush job for the outsourcing company. They put no soul into the game, they probably don't even understand what makes FH4 great.

Edited by user Friday, November 13, 2020 12:57:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#45 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 1:14:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Glotorange Go to Quoted Post
Very very disappointing outsourced rush of a job this XSX patch is. No headlight shadows, no SSAO, driver model animates at 30FPS (lol), etc. I don't even think some of these omissions were intentional, it could be that outsourcing company employees simply lack attention to detail. They botched Playground's masterpiece. They don't understand that all these little tiny details MATTER. That's why Playground painstakingly puts them into their games.

Let's take Gear 5 for example. XSX patch improved on everything, even better graphical features than PC version (which will be patched into PC as well). Improved lighting, improved polycount, improved textures, etc. etc. When you compare what sort of effort into Gears 5 as opposed to FH4, you quickly realize FH4 was just a rush job for the outsourcing company. They put no soul into the game, they probably don't even understand what makes FH4 great.


Well, the problem is that Playground's "attention to detail" unfortunately did not include the choice on how to handle the game's optimization... Panic Button didn't simply take the game and patch it, they were given the authorization to do so.

No, Panic Button didn't do a good job at all, in fact it's very bad next to their other ports, but let's not treat Playground, or Microsoft even, as if they couldn't be blamed...
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#46 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 2:09:47 PM(UTC)
It's early stages... don't press the Panic Button yet!
Rank: Racing Permit
#47 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 5:55:40 PM(UTC)
I am very picky about graphics on my Xbox. I sit very close to a newer 55" tv and really care about resolution, frame rate, and graphics quality. This update is incredible. 60fps alone makes the game amazing, and other than headlight shadows in races, I never would have noticed the SSAO or 30fps animations unless I watched the DF video. In fact, I still don't think I can notice them.

I wonder how many console gamers complained about this update before watching that video.

Panic Button did a bang up job and the game feels amazing right now.
Rank: Racing Permit
#48 Posted : Friday, November 13, 2020 5:56:03 PM(UTC)
double post

Edited by user Friday, November 13, 2020 5:56:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#49 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 1:36:50 AM(UTC)
This greatly bothers me, because guess what? My Xbox One X is gone, I sold it...

And what does that mean? That means I am now stuck with this version of the game on Series X which is graphically inferior in a number of really important ways to the previous consoles version.

This needs to be corrected, the motion blur is inferior, there's no dynamic night shadows during races, and ambient occlusion is gone entirely... I'm very disappointed in this and kind of feel like the game has been ruined. Not one thing should have been sacrificed, we have literally 2x the GPU power and 3-4x the CPU power, plus additional RAM and bandwidth.

This is unacceptable.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#50 Posted : Saturday, November 14, 2020 1:37:05 AM(UTC)
This greatly bothers me, because guess what? My Xbox One X is gone, I sold it...

And what does that mean? That means I am now stuck with this version of the game on Series X which is graphically inferior in a number of really important ways to the previous consoles version.

This needs to be corrected, the motion blur is inferior, there's no dynamic night shadows during races, and ambient occlusion is gone entirely... I'm very disappointed in this and kind of feel like the game has been ruined. Not one thing should have been sacrificed, we have literally 2x the GPU power and 3-4x the CPU power, plus additional RAM and bandwidth.

This is unacceptable.
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