Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2020 7:49:29 PM(UTC)
So first off I get blamed for ramming people. Tell me, how do you predict that someone is going to stop 3 car lengths too early and not avoid a collision? Generally I will take myself out before I take out another car, but apparently, me leaving space between a car in front of me to not tailgate and even stopping earlier than normal is clearly not enough when a car stops in the middle of the road that you're going to hit them. So when you stop in the middle of the road IRL what do you think is going to happen to you? No one is going to hit you? There is clearly a difference between stopping in the middle of the road and actually hitting people/ These people say that I deserve penalties for hitting them when they stop literally .5 seconds too early like any good driver would not hit them right?

So then these drivers start ramming me off the road for their own actions when I've thrown myself off the road because the person in front of me starts stopping to late and I do not take their position, ie. I can take their position but choose not to because it would be dirty at that point etc.

Then I get told I don't know what a dive bomb is. Last time I checked, I play REAL sim games and to my understanding, a dive bomb is when the car in front of you reaches a corner and starts turning in and you are still braking and cause issues. I have NEVER done this. But apparently, me meeting the car at a corner even if I am 2-3 car lengths away because they brake early = dive bombing, seems legit.

So then these drivers start ramming me off the road and literally bullying me and you know what happens next? I save the replay to submit it to forza enforcement. Guess what? Replay is bugged, cannot submit the replay of being intentionally rammed off the road because drivers who stop early blame me for trying to avoid them. Then I get kicked from the lobby becuase there are 12 ish people in there and you only need a 50% vote or so to kick someone. Nice Turn10. Is this the type of racing we promote? People who berate others, get to get away with their treatment of others in this game? People who literally never listen and ram others off the road and claim they are "dive bombing" when they stop 2 to 3 car lengths too early and that they should have "just avoided it" or "not attempted to pass someone stopping hundreds of feet too early?"

Is this a joke because I 100% believe it is. I'm sorry but you just lost a customer forever. If this is the type of racing you want to promote and we can't even save the replays of intentional ramming to report them, I'm done. These idiots even said I would get "penalties" when I legit play iRacing and you know what happens in iRacing? No matter who causes the incident, it gets put on your license and if you get too many you get booted from the game and your driver rating drops. I don't need to be told this garbage by forza drivers.

I'm sorry but I've had enough. You don't police your own game, I can't submit clips to you for policing, etc. I'm not the ONLY one with this issue. MULTIPLE youtubers have already talked about the issues with Forza. This game isn't worth my time and it's not worth getting kicked from lobbies because you legit make LB times (top leaderboard times mind you) and people blame you for attempting to race as cleanly as possible acting like their racing isn't the issue. It's one thing for people to insult you and it's another to be actively punished for being better than others.

Forza used to be a decent game. I don't know what happened but this game just ain't for me anymore and I'm going to move on just like all the better racers have.

FYI, these same racers rammed me from behind etc. because they did not brake when they were supposed to, but apparently I'm the dirty racer here right? I really wish I had a clip to show you their hypocrisy, how they were legit stopping on the track, going 15-20 miles an hour slower than they were supposed to be, and expecting for players to predict their stupidity. Now I can understand all the videos were drivers crash, it makes perfect sense now.

Goodbye forza you shall not be missed.

Edited by user Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:04:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#2 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2020 7:59:48 AM(UTC)
I think a lot has to do with the lack of any skill matching. I don't use assists. With ABS off and someone is braking early or for a longer time than me because of having an assist on, it does become difficult to not hit them sometimes. When I see someone who is clearly faster than me I try to get out of the way. Many do not do this and continue to block in a unsporting manner. You have to know your abilities and be able to judge the ability of those around you. Driving slow in front of me when I am 10 seconds faster on a lap in the end is clearly going to cause problems. It slows me which in turn slows the people behind me and it just is not a good situation to be in. Yes it is my job to pass cleanly but these people will make that very hard to do and may push or shove you when you do try and pass. Ok, so maybe I am a little at fault for an incident, maybe I rear ended you but nothing major happened as a result. This person decides to take revenge, not once but over and over and over and over again. If they do this they are the problem. They are now severely disrupting a race, they have zero regard for those around them and it is just a mess. If they think they are standing up for clean racers everywhere by doing that think again, We can take care of ourselves and do not need help. If there was a skill based matching system and you were actually held accountable a lot of this would stop. Multiple gamer tags is also a problem. The person gets in trouble but hey they have a bunch of other sub gamer tags off their main account that are still allowed anyway so it never ends.

Edited by user Sunday, October 18, 2020 8:13:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:56:47 AM(UTC)
Also going to add that the people I'm talking about have been banned before because they've done this to other people before as well. I'm just going to move on to a different game at this point because this is straight up unacceptable behavior. They even claimed I dived bombed a dude who started braking (once again 3-4 car lengths too early) so what I did was I started braking as soon as I noticed because there was no way to pass the car in front of me and an accident was going to happen, so I avoided the collision by going to his right and getting on the curb (it was the first curb of walkins glen), barely touched the back of his car and did not cause an issue at all. I did not accelerate until he was good to go and I straightened up my car afterwards with zero issue. But apparently that was a "dive bomb" according to these griefers as well. Imagine actually taking yourself out to not hit the dude in front of you and having someone call it a dive bomb. Like really?

All I can do is my best. I can predict if you will brake early and do what I can. But if you stop on the track what am I supposed to do about it? Just like driving in real life, if you stop in the middle of the street, do you expect to get hit for doing that? Of course you do, racing is no different people are just going at a much faster pace. I even asked them what they would be able to do about a car basically stopping on the track in front of them. I wonder why they could not answer that question when I just explained myself the exact action I took to avoid a major accident.

Edited by user Sunday, October 18, 2020 11:58:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2020 12:07:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
I think a lot has to do with the lack of any skill matching. I don't use assists. With ABS off and someone is braking early or for a longer time than me because of having an assist on, it does become difficult to not hit them sometimes. When I see someone who is clearly faster than me I try to get out of the way. Many do not do this and continue to block in a unsporting manner. You have to know your abilities and be able to judge the ability of those around you. Driving slow in front of me when I am 10 seconds faster on a lap in the end is clearly going to cause problems. It slows me which in turn slows the people behind me and it just is not a good situation to be in. Yes it is my job to pass cleanly but these people will make that very hard to do and may push or shove you when you do try and pass. Ok, so maybe I am a little at fault for an incident, maybe I rear ended you but nothing major happened as a result. This person decides to take revenge, not once but over and over and over and over again. If they do this they are the problem. They are now severely disrupting a race, they have zero regard for those around them and it is just a mess. If they think they are standing up for clean racers everywhere by doing that think again, We can take care of ourselves and do not need help. If there was a skill based matching system and you were actually held accountable a lot of this would stop. Multiple gamer tags is also a problem. The person gets in trouble but hey they have a bunch of other sub gamer tags off their main account that are still allowed anyway so it never ends.


100% agreed. A rating system would easily solve this issue. As long as the person who rear ends me stops then I'm fine with that. They made the claim that I never stop for an accident. I actually do, but the thing is, I'm good enough to not be the cause of an accident in the first place. I know how and where to place my car on the track and I'm going to put my car there. If the other person starts touching my car after I've given as much space as possible or they refuse to move over and give space, I view it as a racing incident and I don't stop for racing incidents that could have been avoided by the other driver. Example, racing in class B on daytona. Was racing against another fast driver in the camero. The dude undercut me which is fine and I had no plans on late braking into the next corner which was a sharp right after the U turn at the start. Let the dude go and got behind him. He, stupidly, went onto the left side of the track when there is an immediate sharp left there. He was 2 car lengths ahead of me and I was fully on the right side of the track. You know where this is going right? So I had more entry and exit speed for obvious reasons and was going to pass him back aka hard racing like you should be doing. The dude throttles too early, goes sideways, and takes up the entire track. I'm sorry bro, I'm fully on the left side of the track at this point, I'm not going to stop for you because you don't have throttle control. now would that be my fault for going through him when he's not on his side of the track and he's taking up space for the entire track or his fault for not controlling his car? If we look in the iRacing rules, for example, if you lose control of the car it is 100% your fault, and it's exactly the same way if you drive on the streets.

This is how I indicate who is at fault and when I'm going to stop for an accident.. I don't cause these issues to begin with because I've gotten more than good enough not to and I either

A: Stop if it happens on a rare occasion
B: Let the person in front of me

And I also cannot TELL you how many times I've been on the outside and have people shove me into the grass because they have no idea how to hold their lines or where they should be on the track. But this game has ZERO penalties for that so enjoy.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#5 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 8:32:52 AM(UTC)
[quote=Spity0y0mafia;1175433]So first off I get blamed for ramming people. Tell me, how do you predict that someone is going to stop 3 car lengths too early and not avoid a collision? Generally I will take myself out before I take out another car, but apparently, me leaving space between a car in front of me to not tailgate and even stopping earlier than normal is clearly not enough when a car stops in the middle of the road that you're going to hit them. So when you stop in the middle of the road IRL what do you think is going to happen to you? No one is going to hit you? There is clearly a difference between stopping in the middle of the road and actually hitting people/ These people say that I deserve penalties for hitting them when they stop literally .5 seconds too early like any good driver would not hit them right?

So then these drivers start ramming me off the road for their own actions when I've thrown myself off the road because the person in front of me starts stopping to late and I do not take their position, ie. I can take their position but choose not to because it would be dirty at that point etc.

Then I get told I don't know what a dive bomb is. Last time I checked, I play REAL sim games and to my understanding, a dive bomb is when the car in front of you reaches a corner and starts turning in and you are still braking and cause issues. I have NEVER done this. But apparently, me meeting the car at a corner even if I am 2-3 car lengths away because they brake early = dive bombing, seems legit.

So then these drivers start ramming me off the road and literally bullying me and you know what happens next? I save the replay to submit it to forza enforcement. Guess what? Replay is bugged, cannot submit the replay of being intentionally rammed off the road because drivers who stop early blame me for trying to avoid them. Then I get kicked from the lobby becuase there are 12 ish people in there and you only need a 50% vote or so to kick someone. Nice Turn10. Is this the type of racing we promote? People who berate others, get to get away with their treatment of others in this game? People who literally never listen and ram others off the road and claim they are "dive bombing" when they stop 2 to 3 car lengths too early and that they should have "just avoided it" or "not attempted to pass someone stopping hundreds of feet too early?"

Is this a joke because I 100% believe it is. I'm sorry but you just lost a customer forever. If this is the type of racing you want to promote and we can't even save the replays of intentional ramming to report them, I'm done. These idiots even said I would get "penalties" when I legit play iRacing and you know what happens in iRacing? No matter who causes the incident, it gets put on your license and if you get too many you get booted from the game and your driver rating drops. I don't need to be told this garbage by forza drivers.

I'm sorry but I've had enough. You don't police your own game, I can't submit clips to you for policing, etc. I'm not the ONLY one with this issue. MULTIPLE youtubers have already talked about the issues with Forza. This game isn't worth my time and it's not worth getting kicked from lobbies because you legit make LB times (top leaderboard times mind you) and people blame you for attempting to race as cleanly as possible acting like their racing isn't the issue. It's one thing for people to insult you and it's another to be actively punished for being better than others.

Forza used to be a decent game. I don't know what happened but this game just ain't for me anymore and I'm going to move on just like all the better racers have.

FYI, these same racers rammed me from behind etc. because they did not brake when they were supposed to, but apparently I'm the dirty racer here right? I really wish I had a clip to show you their hypocrisy, how they were legit stopping on the track, going 15-20 miles an hour slower than they were supposed to be, and expecting for players to predict their stupidity. Now I can understand all the videos were drivers crash, it makes perfect sense now.

Goodbye forza you shall not be missed.[/
Your complaints on their own might be enough to boycott Forza eight. But when coupled with dozens if not hundreds of oversightS, nuisances, and general problems, then moving over to Gran Turismo is an obvious move.I won’t list all of the Forza 7 problems, but I do offer a quick mention of their abysmal failure to manage online lobbies after 12 years in the business. They’ve known about other problems for quite a long time, and have done nothing to correct them. Turn 10 will never see another dime of mine.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Monday, October 19, 2020 2:05:26 PM(UTC)
Before making any rash decision lets see if FM8 or just FM whatever they call it has skill based matchmaking and sportsmanship ratings. These game borrow from each other all the time. No one has said it would not have that as yet. We know very little at all really at this point. Fingers crossed.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:28:43 AM(UTC)
The F1 games and Project CARS 2 have safety ratings online but they are easy to manipulate, trolls would likely still find a way into clean racing lobbies if Forza adopted a similar one.

FM7 more than any other FM game feels like it was made by people not interested in any of that stuff though (you know despite the game + franchise having motorsport in the title it's whole life).

I've already said in a thread in the FM section graphic upgrades or more FPS aren't related to where this + so many other series are going wrong.

No care for clean racing, no solo private lobbies, unnecessary mods + driver gear, car collection being considered progress, homologation (which after my hunch on FH4's seasons I believe is FM7's 'nice on the surface but is actually there for a different reason' feature) the reason being it's easier to hide the flaws in the PI calculation system by draping the SP and beginner MP lobby with it which most players will never go beyond, terrible menus that are just bizarre since they didn't need fiddling with and the all-around vibe the game gives off is just wrong, I didn't like 6 as much as the 360 FM's but it still give me that feeling at times that it was a FM game, 7 hasn't done that once yet.

Now how many of those things listed above can be fixed by 120fps + ray tracing?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 20, 2020 10:02:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
Before making any rash decision lets see if FM8 or just FM whatever they call it has skill based matchmaking and sportsmanship ratings. These game borrow from each other all the time. No one has said it would not have that as yet. We know very little at all really at this point. Fingers crossed.


I can try to be as optimistic as you but I literally supported this game since it's launch. Years later they abandoned the game and did not fix the issues with what they had with it. unless they give me a 50% off discount for supporting them and putting up with this BS, my answer is no.
Rank: Racing Permit
#9 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2020 10:45:54 AM(UTC)
I'm sure you aren't checking this thread OP, but as an actual driver I stopped expecting this to be a racing game years ago. Wonky physics aside, as others have mentioned there are a number of fundamental issues which show this won't ever be focused on realistic competition.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#10 Posted : Sunday, October 25, 2020 7:14:24 PM(UTC)
This is why I've play nothing but drifting, drag and rivals cause they have a very specific rule setup that you can't really cheat. Sim races always end up being a Wreckfest type of game where everyone is plowing each other into walls. Plus you're at a disadvantage if you actually try to race clean. Take League for example, very rarely will you ever win a race playing clean. Everyone in the top 3 are all dirty lap times from people cutting corners. You'd think if you have the fastest clean time you'd be in 1st place but playing clean does nothing but hinder you.

I know Forza is currently working on a regulation setup, it takes a lot of time and effort to make a proper race regulation system but if there's no real ranked racing league with proper regulations and sportsmanship ranking anytime soon Grand Turismo 7 will knock Forza out of competition. I've always been a huge fan of Forza for the tuning, detailing every little aspect of the car and the complexity when it comes to perfecting a tune for each race track but the racing is where it's falling behind. GT6 doesn't have a perfect system for penalties but it does a good enough job to set the standard for the type of SIM racing people want. They have dirty racers sure but they ruin their sportsmanship rating so they get matched against other dirty racers. Forza needs this badly.

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