Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:30:56 AM(UTC)
Hi.

As the title suggests, I took every single "standard" car in Forza Motorsport 7 and ranked its respective time achieved on Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. To my knowledge, this is the first document encompassing every (ish) car, as well as comparing them. (If not, let me know. I would love to take a look at some more tests.) This took a huge amount of time, but it was a fun experience as I enjoy the game, and forcing myself to drive every car in the game turned out to a pretty good time.

Of course, there are a few things that need to be said about this:

1) Addressing the elephant in the room; No, I do not have any DLC purchased. At the moment, my money is needed elsewhere and I do not have any disposable funds available for buying said DLC's. However, there will be a donation link at the end of the post if you want to see the extra cars tested. If I gain enough money to pay for it, I would love to run every last car there is. The car pass is currently on a discount for a little under €10, so that's the first opportunity (it's €33 otherwise).

2) I chose Laguna Seca for multiple reasons, but two main ones are that it's short, and that it tests just about every possible aspect of any given vehicle. It has a fairly long straight by the starting line, multiple sharp turns, some more short straights, and of course, the legendary chicane. This ensures that both the straight-loving Regera and the corner-grabbing Clio V6 get an equal chance for a good time. Naturally, I could have chosen a longer track, but FM8 would have probably released before I would upload this.

3) The testing was done by running two laps on the track. The first one was both to get a general feel for the car, as well as gain entry speed for the second lap. The second one, obviously, was the one that was timed and that appears in the spreadsheet. I figured this way of running the cars would make everything more fair, as well as a bit easier on myself. Hate me for this, but running 10 laps for 700+ cars each is too insane even for me.

4) The laps may not be the most accurate. The spreadsheet wasn't made to say "Oh look, the 2011 Scirocco is better than the 2014 4C because it's 0,013 seconds faster." Instead, it is meant to provide insight into which cars are competitive with each other. For example, you can look at it and see that the Prowler and the Z4M Coupe are only a fragment of a second away from the other. This way, you can make classed (or multi-classed) races and lobbies just by making a simple tier-list based on the spreadsheet. Now, I don't claim to be the best driver there is, but I am confident in saying that every car ended up having a clean/legal lap and that they were driven by a fairly competitive player. If nothing else, all cars were driven with equal incompetence. (P.S. The Twin Mill still deserves a bonfire.)

5) All starting assists, including the race line, were used. Shortly put, I don't have the patience or time to carefully choose specific assists combinations to achieve the best time. Sure, a skilled player can get much better times with assists off, but this at least puts most cars at an equal advantage or disadvantage.

6) Almost every car was driven with the interior/cockpit cam. There are exceptions as vaguely outlined in the doc, but I stuck to this camera for as many cars as possible. Again, for fairness sake.

7) Every car is tested fully stock, or as stock as it gets. That means that I bought every car directly from the store and selected the stock option if it was available. For racecars, the homologation option isn't present so I simply proceeded with the purchase. That being said, time standings only apply for stock cars.

8) All cars were driven with a wired Dualshock 4 controller. Again, a driving wheel would be ideal for this, but proper wheels are way out of my budget. Also listed controller type as I saw another post somewhere saying input times were different, so there.

9) The table lists all car years, makes and models, as well as drive types and in-game car classes and performance indexes. This was done to provide a sum of information about a selected car without having to constantly alt-tab in and out of the game to check these specs. An extra row, labeled "Comments" was added, which simply contains my personal thoughts on certain cars. I sometimes praise cars, other times I just express my hatred for them. It's pushed all the way to the side to not be in the way if something like that doesn't interest you. As a bit of a disclaimer, it's only there to add character to the testing and to serve as a source for some harmless jokes.

10) About racecar names (for ctrl-f users);
Often times, there are multiple of the same racecars added as separate cars simply to have additional liveries for different race teams. When that happens (and the car performance AND year are the same), I would simply list all car numbers and put them in the same cell. For example you can find #2, #6, #21, #23 & #99 Formula E all in the same place. As well as that, if there are two cars with same name components, I will only put these in the model column. To clarify, you might have the #2 Team Penske Indycar and the #4 AJ Foyt Enterprises Indycar. In this scenario, the table would simply list "#2 & #4 Indycar" as "Indycar" is the only common element. Naturally, if either the model year, PI, or any specific specs are different, the cars will be listed as separate entries.

11) Please do tell if I made any errors while making this spreadsheet. I made a final check before posting, and it turned out that I somehow didn't test 3 cars, I made an incorrect time input for 2, and I gave the Beetle a whole minute less on its total time. It goes without saying, then, that other mistakes are completely possible. After all, I am just a human, and these things tend to happen with massive attention-sensitive documents such as this one. If any placements seem fishy or if there are any typos, let me know in the comments or DM's if the website supports them (I am new to it so I'm not sure.) Those who find mistakes will be credited, of course.

I think that about covers it, so I would like to once again divert your attention to the DLC situation. I really don't want to be money-grubbing, so this is purely for those who have money to spend and would like to see a "definitive" version of my work. First money will go to buying DLC, and excess cash, if any, will most likely go towards buying FM8 when it comes out. Before you ask, yes, I do plan on doing the same type of test for it as well (money willing, of course.)
So yeah, you can donate to my Ko-fi site found below:

https://ko-fi.com/bambz

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope this proves to be useful in breathing some fresh life in to this game. Whether it be having a competitive random lobby, friendly race or just playing around with bot races, I wish you a lot of fun and a great day to go with it. :)

The file is currently hosted on Mediafire as my GTPlanet post mysteriously disappeared. If this is in breach of any site rules, I can adapt:

http://www.mediafire.com...una_Seca_Final.xlsx/file

Edited by user Friday, October 16, 2020 6:32:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Added working download link and two new points of information that I forgot to add earlier.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2020 2:15:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: That Bambu Dude Go to Quoted Post
(P.S. The Twin Mill still deserves a bonfire.)


You use Driver or Cockpit view, I take it?

I'll check it out when I get some free time. Not the methodology I'd have used if I were to do something similar, but I'm interested to see your results nonetheless.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#3 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2020 6:12:09 AM(UTC)
Yes, I used the cockpit cam for almost every car, but some (such as the twin mill) were pretty much impossible to do so. In these cases I used the hood cam, or in some rare cases, the bumper cam.

What method would you use? I assume taking the best time from a hotlapping session on a longer track?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#4 Posted : Friday, October 16, 2020 6:28:19 AM(UTC)
Yes, I used the cockpit cam for as many vehicles as possible. Naturally, I skipped the Twin Mill and a few others for obvious reasons and instead used the hood cam or the bumper cam if needed.

The reason why I dislike the car isn't even the lack of visibility, but just how unstable it is (even when carefully driven). It sort of feels like the Hoonicorn, but that thing is AWD so it feels a lot more bearable. Nonetheless, I think I got a fair time with it.

What type of method would you use? Not sure how much I can change on this one, but if enough people agree, I might do a re-testing at some point.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:36:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: That Bambu Dude Go to Quoted Post
Not sure how much I can change on this one, but if enough people agree, I might do a re-testing at some point.

Just to be clear: I'm not criticizing your methodology or suggesting you should do something different. You developed a test with consistent and well-designed parameters, then provided results (which I still haven't found time to look at, but I promise I will) that are quantifiable and as objective as you could manage. It's good stuff, and something I'd never have time to do on my own.

Originally Posted by: That Bambu Dude Go to Quoted Post
What type of method would you use?

Different track as a test bed would be one. Laguna Seca's a good choice, but probably favors finesse a bit more than power. I typically use Spa as my comparison track, but it's not really a balanced choice, either. Would have to think about which track would be most balanced without taking hours to get a representative lap time. One of the VIR variants, maybe.

I'd also run without any assists. TCS in particular is going to have a larger impact on performance as the cars' PI and power/weight increase, but the whole assist suite is going to favor the higher PI end of the spectrum. I'm way more comfortable running without assists than I am with them, however, so that may be coloring my opinion.

Again, that's just how I'd do things if I set out to do this for myself. Not better, just different.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#6 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2020 11:27:00 AM(UTC)
First of all, sorry for the double-reply as I thought there was a technical error happening while my account simply needed to become fully moderated.

As for criticism, don't worry since no offense is taken here. Even if you were saying the methods were the worst imaginable, constructive criticism is always welcome. The no-assists route did dawn on me, but it happened when I was already in the middle of testing and I just couldn't be bothered. If I would ever do a retesting, they would be off, although I would keep the driving line as a general judge of a car's character. For example, I could say "This car needs to brake a bit before the red zone" or "The brakes are so good, I can brake half a second later". Just general stuff that allows me an easier test without sacrificing on the car's performance.

I actually thought about VIR, but I think I read some forums here saying how the community doesn't exactly like the track. Something about bumps near the end? I don't drive on it often and it seemed like others have a similar opinion on it. To be honest, the only true test track seems to be the Nürburgring, but the idea of running that for every car makes my head spin.

If you have any other suggestions let me know, and definitely give me your thoughts on everything once you find the time. No rush, of course.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:02:53 PM(UTC)
Why are you even mentioning this? They legit removed cars that were non-DLC for being broken then introduced either useless DLC cars or cards that did the same thing as the cars that were banned from use instead of actually balancing them. There's no point in talking about this at all.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#8 Posted : Sunday, October 18, 2020 6:31:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spity0y0mafia Go to Quoted Post
Why are you even mentioning this? They legit removed cars that were non-DLC for being broken then introduced either useless DLC cars or cards that did the same thing as the cars that were banned from use instead of actually balancing them. There's no point in talking about this at all.


It's not all about competitive racing. As outlined in the post, this is for making fun in cars that are balanced with each other. DLC or not, there are surely some combinations of cars that are interesting to drive together in a lobby. Regardless, I still think it's a valid topic to discuss as I do believe it could help someone better understand or enjoy the game more.

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