Rank: Driver's License
#1 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 10:32:37 PM(UTC)
Every few months turn 10 decides to change what is considered to be clean and what is considered to be dirty in terms of track out of bounds limits. It keeps changing from the "correct" way to the "incorrect" way, it is currently incorrect. Currently it is 2 tires off is considered dirty on most, but not all tracks, which is WRONG. 4 tires off is dirty, not 2. And just get rid of any sort of "advantage" you get from wind streaming when following a car so that too can be considered clean (you don't gain anything anyway).

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:01:29 AM(UTC)
I don't think they're changing it much anymore, since they closed the code base. 2 tires out of the track limits is a clean lap. The third tire makes it dirty. It's been that way a while.

Most of the reasons a lap might get dirtied are understandable. The two tires rule, maybe not standard in other games or real life events, but at least you know what the criteria are. Going into or coming out of the pit dirties both laps, since you're technically off track, and the pit lane isn't within the track limits. Dirtying a lap by slipstreaming is annoying, but understandable, since it's controllable. And there's been some discussion whether slipstreaming is modeled correctly, since the effect doesn't seem as strong as it should be.

But dirtying a lap by being slipstreamed has been discussed at length in the past. It kindof makes sense why they do it, as the lead car does get a very slight, barely measurable advantage, but it's out of the player's control. And even less so, if slipstreaming isn't fully modeled right. What really makes it annoying is since they changed the following trackers to time instead of distance, it's not as easy to figure out if the car behind you is close enough to slipstream. Best I can figure it's about 1.5s.

It used to be that hitting debris would dirty a lap. Even if you yourself weren't responsible for that debris. So an AI hits a cone and knocks it into the track, then on the next lap, there's a dead cone in the middle of your line, and you hit it, your lap is dirtied. But it seems they fixed that. At least it hasn't happened to me in a while.

And the other thing I've found that can dirty a lap, is doing something in the last... I don't know... 1-2 turns of the previous lap that would dirty a lap, will dirty the next lap too. So you mess up the final chicane at Suzuka, and your lap is understandably dirty. But, then you cross the finish line, and your new lap is already dirty, even though you haven't had a chance to mess up yet. I don't agree with that.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:08:25 AM(UTC)
You can change the following trackers back to distance if you wish, it's in the options.

The reason dirtying a lap in the last sector also dirties the next one is that you could conceivably take a wide line (over the track limits), or cut the inside of the the last turn, whichever gave a greater advantage, and carry more speed into the next lap.
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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 11:05:02 AM(UTC)
I don't think I'll bother changing the following trackers. I've heard that that's the way it's supposed to be, and that's how it's done everywhere else, so I might as well get used to it. That's the only real downside, as far as I know.
Rank: Driver's License
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:08:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post

And the other thing I've found that can dirty a lap, is doing something in the last... I don't know... 1-2 turns of the previous lap that would dirty a lap, will dirty the next lap too. So you mess up the final chicane at Suzuka, and your lap is understandably dirty. But, then you cross the finish line, and your new lap is already dirty, even though you haven't had a chance to mess up yet. I don't agree with that.


I believe that it is the entire final sector that must be clean, or the next lap will be dirtied as well. It make sense that they do this, because on some tracks you could get unfair speed on the start straight by intentionally dirtying your previous lap to attack the final turn carrying more speed across the line.

Personally, I don't worry about clean/dirty unless I'm doing time trials (rivals). Not to say I don't try to keep it clean, but when slip-streaming marks a lap as dirty there isn't much you can do to stay "clean" anyway. Again, I understand why they do this. For the leaderboards they want rivals to be the way to set the time. If the fastest time was able to be set by getting a slip-stream advantage from another fast racer, then you would *have* to do it that way to set a competitive leaderboard time, which would suck for obvious reasons.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:03:20 PM(UTC)
I get why they do it, and maybe that's fine. Or maybe it's that way in real life motorsports too; I don't know.

There doesn't seem to me to be a lot of opportunities to gain speed by taking dirty corners in the last sector, but maybe I'm wrong.
Rank: Driver's License
#7 Posted : Thursday, April 9, 2020 10:49:24 AM(UTC)
I kind of fell off the face of the earth with this post, sorry.

In motorsports in real life cars put half there car and even there entire car off on certain tracks and this is considered to be clean. Watch imsa on Road America corner one, they go waaay off. Im not saying this should be considered clean, but this whole putting just barely 2 tires up on the curb dirtying my lap now is just silly. Over the years they've fixed it and put it back to the incorrect way multiple times and it hurts my head when i try to think of why they would do this. They could even go back to the way they had it where if the middle most part of your car was over dirt, not the curb, then that was dirty. Havnt raced in awhile maybe they've fixed it again.

Either way thanks for all the replies.

Edited by user Saturday, April 11, 2020 7:28:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#8 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2020 10:38:59 AM(UTC)
Obviously because the current track limits are trash and need to be modified. On top of that, the penalty system is ridiculous, most of the time you don't gain ANY time from what you did, yet your get a second+ penalty for the so called "infraction"

All I see is the lack of devs caring with no attempts to make real track limits as they continue to spit on the players expecting them to buy the next series in this game. TBH I think this is the most uninstalled game of all time for me. Every time I came back because it's a simple and mostly casual game, I get to see how little turn10 cares about improving the game.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#9 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2020 7:17:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spity0y0mafia Go to Quoted Post
Obviously because the current track limits are trash and need to be modified. On top of that, the penalty system is ridiculous, most of the time you don't gain ANY time from what you did, yet your get a second+ penalty for the so called "infraction"

All I see is the lack of devs caring with no attempts to make real track limits as they continue to spit on the players expecting them to buy the next series in this game. TBH I think this is the most uninstalled game of all time for me. Every time I came back because it's a simple and mostly casual game, I get to see how little turn10 cares about improving the game.

Real track limits are tough because some racing series will have different limits for the same track.

If you're going over the limits in FM7, that's on you. The limits are consistent 99.9% of the time and you can turn on the lines to make them extremely visible. They may be strict but just be more cautious then. I do think the should make the two tire rule into just one tire though.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2020 4:03:38 AM(UTC)
Out of curiosity when is this going to be rolled to other classes and at the very least leagues. I'm stuck playing the A and S class rece regulations lobbies because it's much better experience as there are less hammers. However, I'd like to play other classes too and even though the system is not 100% perfect, it improves the racing experience with less corner cutting and ramming.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Friday, April 17, 2020 7:20:36 AM(UTC)
Never, that is all they said they were going to do. We will have to wait for the next Forza.

Edited by user Friday, April 17, 2020 7:21:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#12 Posted : Friday, June 12, 2020 8:16:23 AM(UTC)
What bothers me most about the penalties is the lack of respect T10 has for competitive racing. I find myself starting every race mid field because the person behind me caught my draft and made my lap dirty. You can't have a good race with anybody because the slow / clean racers will just start in front of you next race. What happens most of the time is I just slow down enough to give myself room for a clean race. And that ruins the racing experience for me.

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