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Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#226 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:12:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
There is not much randomness or high difficulty in completing the required offline challenges to reach the required 50% for the new cars, nor is it very time consuming. It's literally 3 championships, 3 stunts and a weekly forzathon which all can be done anytime during the whole week. Sure, if you miss out on one or two weeks you don't have the guarantee that the cars will return, but so far almost every exclusive has been available afterwards either in the forzathon shop or a single championship. So what's the panic-mongering here?

Same goes for the Pista and the Rossion that were locked behind mulitplayer, the returned now.

Also there is no time gating on any car. If you've missed your all time favorite that you want to drive right away without any compromises, you can snipe it in the auction house. And sniping 1 single car for yourself shouldn't be that much of a problem. As soon as you own it you don't have to do it ever again.

Just to test it, I've got 2 LFA's and 2 AE86's in one hour.

I'm starting to understand why Sony is closing down their game forums, because lot's of nonsense and whining like this.

The game sales and player count is higher than every before in FH, so what's even the deal?


Always the same arguments... Always the same. "Lazy", "nonsense", blah, blah, blah.

See, the biggest issue I have with you guys who support what Playground has been doing since FH3 (and Turn 10 copied in FM7, failing miserably, because the FM community is much more critical), is not your opinion, but the fact you belittle people who don't want to play the Seasonals as "lazy", "entitled", then go on on rants such as "gamers these days!", "dude, just play the game!" and so on.

There are people who, indeed, don't even have the 1 hour required for completing all offline challenges. For them, it's FH4 or something else, and usually the "something else" is more fun and rewarding. Others even lack the skill to either win seasonals or complete PR stunts. This week's Speed Trap is pretty difficult. Why should these people be treated by the devs as "unworthy" of getting the cars? Yes, it takes only 1 hour, but it's 1 hour of grinding events and repeating championships. There's never anything new, it's a constant cycle of old events. There's Forzathons having you earn 1 million skill points, which takes time and skill even in cars with good perks. Their best month was when they added community contest winning routes, but never again. Sometimes the cars even suck, like the Pista, it's just for bragging rights, it's uncompetitive.

When it comes to sniping cars in the AH, most people also don't have time to keep pressing button sequences like automatons in hopes that they win an auction. PC players can resort to automated macros, which breaks the rules. People on the Xbox? Not really. In fact, Xbox has been struggling with the inability to disable crossplay, because the online mode is full of hacks and we, who pay for online as opposed to these crooks, can't do anything about it. "Just snipe it from the AH" is the FH4's version of Don Mattrick's famous sentence in the failed E3 2013 when he said, "Can't be online 24/7? Get an Xbox 360 instead." It's just not something you do to your fanbase.

May I point out that FH4's sales were boosted by the success of FH3 and player count was boosted by the game being on Game Pass. This game was much different on release from what it is today. In many aspects it was worse, in many others it was better. I could go on and on and write a gigantic post on it, which is pointless since you'll keep gratuitously belittling people who may have invested far more time into this game than you did, are fed of treating this game as if it was a real-life appointment, and don't want to deal with abusive behavior coming from people who for whatever reason will applaud anything the devs do out of spite towards people who are vocal about their issues with the game.


Man, you're riding on that 'lazy' thing for so long. It really seems to have gotten to you. And the more you're repeating it, the more it seems to be the truth about you.

I've already said it, if you don't have time for this because you have a busy life. Then just ignore the whole forzathon playlist thing and play at your own pace, just like the dude above said. Difficulty-wise the game always felt accessible for me, and in most cases I can barely see whats infront of my car.

The championships and challenges are often the same, that's true, but at least you can rely on getting the new exclusive cars after finishing them in a reasonable time. Now, if you complain about how much time these require, imagine how much longer you would have to spend to complete plain different challenges every week.

I just told you that I've sniped 4 very desired cars in 1 hour. That's around 15 minutes for each car. A car that you never have to snipe again if you intend to own 1 sample. Also macros make no sense anymore, because you don't have to type in the search criteria every time when looking for a car, you still gotta be quick though. But don't tell me, the Halo 5 trigger fingers on xbox aren't capable of sinping it quick enough even before the PC players.

If the game was only selling so well because of it's predecessors, it would be dead by now


For your own sake just stop embarrassing yourself buddy.


What elese did I expect from the lazy fanclub of dlc buyers.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#227 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:46:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#228 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 12:49:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
There is not much randomness or high difficulty in completing the required offline challenges to reach the required 50% for the new cars, nor is it very time consuming. It's literally 3 championships, 3 stunts and a weekly forzathon which all can be done anytime during the whole week. Sure, if you miss out on one or two weeks you don't have the guarantee that the cars will return, but so far almost every exclusive has been available afterwards either in the forzathon shop or a single championship. So what's the panic-mongering here?

Same goes for the Pista and the Rossion that were locked behind mulitplayer, the returned now.

Also there is no time gating on any car. If you've missed your all time favorite that you want to drive right away without any compromises, you can snipe it in the auction house. And sniping 1 single car for yourself shouldn't be that much of a problem. As soon as you own it you don't have to do it ever again.

Just to test it, I've got 2 LFA's and 2 AE86's in one hour.

I'm starting to understand why Sony is closing down their game forums, because lot's of nonsense and whining like this.

The game sales and player count is higher than every before in FH, so what's even the deal?


Always the same arguments... Always the same. "Lazy", "nonsense", blah, blah, blah.

See, the biggest issue I have with you guys who support what Playground has been doing since FH3 (and Turn 10 copied in FM7, failing miserably, because the FM community is much more critical), is not your opinion, but the fact you belittle people who don't want to play the Seasonals as "lazy", "entitled", then go on on rants such as "gamers these days!", "dude, just play the game!" and so on.

There are people who, indeed, don't even have the 1 hour required for completing all offline challenges. For them, it's FH4 or something else, and usually the "something else" is more fun and rewarding. Others even lack the skill to either win seasonals or complete PR stunts. This week's Speed Trap is pretty difficult. Why should these people be treated by the devs as "unworthy" of getting the cars? Yes, it takes only 1 hour, but it's 1 hour of grinding events and repeating championships. There's never anything new, it's a constant cycle of old events. There's Forzathons having you earn 1 million skill points, which takes time and skill even in cars with good perks. Their best month was when they added community contest winning routes, but never again. Sometimes the cars even suck, like the Pista, it's just for bragging rights, it's uncompetitive.

When it comes to sniping cars in the AH, most people also don't have time to keep pressing button sequences like automatons in hopes that they win an auction. PC players can resort to automated macros, which breaks the rules. People on the Xbox? Not really. In fact, Xbox has been struggling with the inability to disable crossplay, because the online mode is full of hacks and we, who pay for online as opposed to these crooks, can't do anything about it. "Just snipe it from the AH" is the FH4's version of Don Mattrick's famous sentence in the failed E3 2013 when he said, "Can't be online 24/7? Get an Xbox 360 instead." It's just not something you do to your fanbase.

May I point out that FH4's sales were boosted by the success of FH3 and player count was boosted by the game being on Game Pass. This game was much different on release from what it is today. In many aspects it was worse, in many others it was better. I could go on and on and write a gigantic post on it, which is pointless since you'll keep gratuitously belittling people who may have invested far more time into this game than you did, are fed of treating this game as if it was a real-life appointment, and don't want to deal with abusive behavior coming from people who for whatever reason will applaud anything the devs do out of spite towards people who are vocal about their issues with the game.


Man, you're riding on that 'lazy' thing for so long. It really seems to have gotten to you. And the more you're repeating it, the more it seems to be the truth about you.

I've already said it, if you don't have time for this because you have a busy life. Then just ignore the whole forzathon playlist thing and play at your own pace, just like the dude above said. Difficulty-wise the game always felt accessible for me, and in most cases I can barely see whats infront of my car.

The championships and challenges are often the same, that's true, but at least you can rely on getting the new exclusive cars after finishing them in a reasonable time. Now, if you complain about how much time these require, imagine how much longer you would have to spend to complete plain different challenges every week.

I just told you that I've sniped 4 very desired cars in 1 hour. That's around 15 minutes for each car. A car that you never have to snipe again if you intend to own 1 sample. Also macros make no sense anymore, because you don't have to type in the search criteria every time when looking for a car, you still gotta be quick though. But don't tell me, the Halo 5 trigger fingers on xbox aren't capable of sinping it quick enough even before the PC players.

If the game was only selling so well because of it's predecessors, it would be dead by now


For your own sake just stop embarrassing yourself buddy.


What a well thought out and perfectly executed rebuttal.


No point wasting time trying to talk to someone who clearly claps like a seal at anything PG do with the game and hasn't listened to a word several others have tried saying to them over many weeks now.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#229 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:16:58 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.


Liver service or not it’s still free content over a year after release.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#230 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:47:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.


Liver service or not it’s still free content over a year after release.


It's "free, but...", not free. Up for grabs for a week, then only at the hands of the AH speculators, until PG decides to make the cars available again. And Eliminator I don't even want for free, I'd pay for them to remove that stuff from my game.

Compare to Turn 10. Tons of free monthly cars without requiring anything other than running the game. For more than a year, I might add. Better yet, compare to PD which adds the cars to Gran Turismo and they're unlockable through normal progression, at any time, unlike FH4. Even EA is adding permanent free cars to NFS, like the Aston DB11 Volante. McLaren is paid, sure, and it's expensive, but it's also 4 cars in 1.

The reason why PG is slowly turning this into a F2P game is because of people like you who support them the same way the FM7 community cracked down hard on T10 for locking the cars. FM community doesn't take lightly to shady practices, FH community will accept anything.

They could add 20 cars in one fell swoop, still doesn't change how the maps got boring after all this time and how fresh adopters are screwed if they want to build their collection from scratch. Forza games, or any game for that matter, are heavily dependent on new maps to last long.

The moment you tell people something is free of charge, they lose all sense of rationality, it's amazing. Yes, something can cost no money and still suck, like Rocksteady's enhancement patches for their Arkham games on the Xbox One X. Surprising, huh?

There are many, many instances when PG "freely" crapped on this community and a bunch of new cars do not compensate for it, especially when they frequently come with bugs and inaccuracies.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:55:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#231 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 2:17:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post


It's "free, but...", not free. Up for grabs for a week, then only at the hands of the AH speculators, until PG decides to make the cars available again. And Eliminator I don't even want for free, I'd pay for them to remove that stuff from my game.

Compare to Turn 10. Tons of free monthly cars without requiring anything other than running the game. For more than a year, I might add. Better yet, compare to PD which adds the cars to Gran Turismo and they're unlockable through normal progression, at any time, unlike FH4. Even EA is adding permanent free cars to NFS, like the Aston DB11 Volante. McLaren is paid, sure, and it's expensive, but it's also 4 cars in 1.

The reason why PG is slowly turning this into a F2P game is because of people like you who support them the same way the FM7 community cracked down hard on T10 for locking the cars. FM community doesn't take lightly to shady practices, FH community will accept anything.

They could add 20 cars in one fell swoop, still doesn't change how the maps got boring after all this time and how fresh adopters are screwed if they want to build their collection from scratch. Forza games, or any game for that matter, are heavily dependent on new maps to last long.

The moment you tell people something is free of charge, they lose all sense of rationality, it's amazing. Yes, something can cost no money and still suck, like Rocksteady's enhancement patches for their Arkham games on the Xbox One X. Surprising, huh?

There are many, many instances when PG "freely" crapped on this community and a bunch of new cars do not compensate for it, especially when they frequently come with bugs and inaccuracies.


I don't know what you are saying, it doesn't make sense that you would want to pay for free stuff.

Edited by user Thursday, March 5, 2020 2:16:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#232 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 4:20:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.


Liver service or not it’s still free content over a year after release.


Which wouldn't be there if it wasn't a live service game.

PG aren't doing it as a favour to you or me or anybody else, they're doing it to keep us giving the game some form of engagement on a weekly basis since like any other developer with a live service game they don't think we'll do it ourselves because their game doesn't have enough to keep us hooked on it's own merits and we need a constant incentive to do so.

Live service is the route developers with very few ideas go down, all do the same thing right back to the 1st Destiny, have a couple of good points, hammer them pre-release hiding the fact there's nothing else, release a shell of a game usually with countless bugs and glitches, dripfeed content and fix issues over a long period then get applauded by fans silly enough to ignore that a paid triple-A game should have plenty of content and be bug-free at release.

If I defecated all over someone's floor I wouldn't expect praise for cleaning it up.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#233 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:54:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.


Liver service or not it’s still free content over a year after release.


Which wouldn't be there if it wasn't a live service game.

PG aren't doing it as a favour to you or me or anybody else, they're doing it to keep us giving the game some form of engagement on a weekly basis since like any other developer with a live service game they don't think we'll do it ourselves because their game doesn't have enough to keep us hooked on it's own merits and we need a constant incentive to do so.

Live service is the route developers with very few ideas go down, all do the same thing right back to the 1st Destiny, have a couple of good points, hammer them pre-release hiding the fact there's nothing else, release a shell of a game usually with countless bugs and glitches, dripfeed content and fix issues over a long period then get applauded by fans silly enough to ignore that a paid triple-A game should have plenty of content and be bug-free at release.

If I defecated all over someone's floor I wouldn't expect praise for cleaning it up.


You’re annoyingly avoiding the fact that; it’s still free content over a year after release. Please type up another wall of text.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#234 Posted : Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:50:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
There is not much randomness or high difficulty in completing the required offline challenges to reach the required 50% for the new cars, nor is it very time consuming. It's literally 3 championships, 3 stunts and a weekly forzathon which all can be done anytime during the whole week. Sure, if you miss out on one or two weeks you don't have the guarantee that the cars will return, but so far almost every exclusive has been available afterwards either in the forzathon shop or a single championship. So what's the panic-mongering here?

Same goes for the Pista and the Rossion that were locked behind mulitplayer, the returned now.

Also there is no time gating on any car. If you've missed your all time favorite that you want to drive right away without any compromises, you can snipe it in the auction house. And sniping 1 single car for yourself shouldn't be that much of a problem. As soon as you own it you don't have to do it ever again.

Just to test it, I've got 2 LFA's and 2 AE86's in one hour.

I'm starting to understand why Sony is closing down their game forums, because lot's of nonsense and whining like this.

The game sales and player count is higher than every before in FH, so what's even the deal?


Always the same arguments... Always the same. "Lazy", "nonsense", blah, blah, blah.

See, the biggest issue I have with you guys who support what Playground has been doing since FH3 (and Turn 10 copied in FM7, failing miserably, because the FM community is much more critical), is not your opinion, but the fact you belittle people who don't want to play the Seasonals as "lazy", "entitled", then go on on rants such as "gamers these days!", "dude, just play the game!" and so on.

There are people who, indeed, don't even have the 1 hour required for completing all offline challenges. For them, it's FH4 or something else, and usually the "something else" is more fun and rewarding. Others even lack the skill to either win seasonals or complete PR stunts. This week's Speed Trap is pretty difficult. Why should these people be treated by the devs as "unworthy" of getting the cars? Yes, it takes only 1 hour, but it's 1 hour of grinding events and repeating championships. There's never anything new, it's a constant cycle of old events. There's Forzathons having you earn 1 million skill points, which takes time and skill even in cars with good perks. Their best month was when they added community contest winning routes, but never again. Sometimes the cars even suck, like the Pista, it's just for bragging rights, it's uncompetitive.

When it comes to sniping cars in the AH, most people also don't have time to keep pressing button sequences like automatons in hopes that they win an auction. PC players can resort to automated macros, which breaks the rules. People on the Xbox? Not really. In fact, Xbox has been struggling with the inability to disable crossplay, because the online mode is full of hacks and we, who pay for online as opposed to these crooks, can't do anything about it. "Just snipe it from the AH" is the FH4's version of Don Mattrick's famous sentence in the failed E3 2013 when he said, "Can't be online 24/7? Get an Xbox 360 instead." It's just not something you do to your fanbase.

May I point out that FH4's sales were boosted by the success of FH3 and player count was boosted by the game being on Game Pass. This game was much different on release from what it is today. In many aspects it was worse, in many others it was better. I could go on and on and write a gigantic post on it, which is pointless since you'll keep gratuitously belittling people who may have invested far more time into this game than you did, are fed of treating this game as if it was a real-life appointment, and don't want to deal with abusive behavior coming from people who for whatever reason will applaud anything the devs do out of spite towards people who are vocal about their issues with the game.


Man, you're riding on that 'lazy' thing for so long. It really seems to have gotten to you. And the more you're repeating it, the more it seems to be the truth about you.

I've already said it, if you don't have time for this because you have a busy life. Then just ignore the whole forzathon playlist thing and play at your own pace, just like the dude above said. Difficulty-wise the game always felt accessible for me, and in most cases I can barely see whats infront of my car.

The championships and challenges are often the same, that's true, but at least you can rely on getting the new exclusive cars after finishing them in a reasonable time. Now, if you complain about how much time these require, imagine how much longer you would have to spend to complete plain different challenges every week.

I just told you that I've sniped 4 very desired cars in 1 hour. That's around 15 minutes for each car. A car that you never have to snipe again if you intend to own 1 sample. Also macros make no sense anymore, because you don't have to type in the search criteria every time when looking for a car, you still gotta be quick though. But don't tell me, the Halo 5 trigger fingers on xbox aren't capable of sinping it quick enough even before the PC players.

If the game was only selling so well because of it's predecessors, it would be dead by now


For your own sake just stop embarrassing yourself buddy.


What a well thought out and perfectly executed rebuttal.


No point wasting time trying to talk to someone who clearly claps like a seal at anything PG do with the game and hasn't listened to a word several others have tried saying to them over many weeks now.


There are people who value it when devs support a game long after it's release with free new content, others prefer to pay 5 bucks for a single McLaren F1.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 4, 2020 10:50:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#235 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 2:07:40 AM(UTC)
A small suggestion: can we make it so that quotes won't include more than 2 previous posts.

Otherwise it's really hard to follow the conversation.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#236 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:10:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.


Liver service or not it’s still free content over a year after release.


Which wouldn't be there if it wasn't a live service game.

PG aren't doing it as a favour to you or me or anybody else, they're doing it to keep us giving the game some form of engagement on a weekly basis since like any other developer with a live service game they don't think we'll do it ourselves because their game doesn't have enough to keep us hooked on it's own merits and we need a constant incentive to do so.

Live service is the route developers with very few ideas go down, all do the same thing right back to the 1st Destiny, have a couple of good points, hammer them pre-release hiding the fact there's nothing else, release a shell of a game usually with countless bugs and glitches, dripfeed content and fix issues over a long period then get applauded by fans silly enough to ignore that a paid triple-A game should have plenty of content and be bug-free at release.

If I defecated all over someone's floor I wouldn't expect praise for cleaning it up.


You’re annoyingly avoiding the fact that; it’s still free content over a year after release. Please type up another wall of text.


Is that all you can say? Should I be grateful and thank the developers for the free content even though for the 3rd time it's part of the game's model and always has been?

You've got nothing else to say except 'ooh it's free!!'.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#237 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:11:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
There is not much randomness or high difficulty in completing the required offline challenges to reach the required 50% for the new cars, nor is it very time consuming. It's literally 3 championships, 3 stunts and a weekly forzathon which all can be done anytime during the whole week. Sure, if you miss out on one or two weeks you don't have the guarantee that the cars will return, but so far almost every exclusive has been available afterwards either in the forzathon shop or a single championship. So what's the panic-mongering here?

Same goes for the Pista and the Rossion that were locked behind mulitplayer, the returned now.

Also there is no time gating on any car. If you've missed your all time favorite that you want to drive right away without any compromises, you can snipe it in the auction house. And sniping 1 single car for yourself shouldn't be that much of a problem. As soon as you own it you don't have to do it ever again.

Just to test it, I've got 2 LFA's and 2 AE86's in one hour.

I'm starting to understand why Sony is closing down their game forums, because lot's of nonsense and whining like this.

The game sales and player count is higher than every before in FH, so what's even the deal?


Always the same arguments... Always the same. "Lazy", "nonsense", blah, blah, blah.

See, the biggest issue I have with you guys who support what Playground has been doing since FH3 (and Turn 10 copied in FM7, failing miserably, because the FM community is much more critical), is not your opinion, but the fact you belittle people who don't want to play the Seasonals as "lazy", "entitled", then go on on rants such as "gamers these days!", "dude, just play the game!" and so on.

There are people who, indeed, don't even have the 1 hour required for completing all offline challenges. For them, it's FH4 or something else, and usually the "something else" is more fun and rewarding. Others even lack the skill to either win seasonals or complete PR stunts. This week's Speed Trap is pretty difficult. Why should these people be treated by the devs as "unworthy" of getting the cars? Yes, it takes only 1 hour, but it's 1 hour of grinding events and repeating championships. There's never anything new, it's a constant cycle of old events. There's Forzathons having you earn 1 million skill points, which takes time and skill even in cars with good perks. Their best month was when they added community contest winning routes, but never again. Sometimes the cars even suck, like the Pista, it's just for bragging rights, it's uncompetitive.

When it comes to sniping cars in the AH, most people also don't have time to keep pressing button sequences like automatons in hopes that they win an auction. PC players can resort to automated macros, which breaks the rules. People on the Xbox? Not really. In fact, Xbox has been struggling with the inability to disable crossplay, because the online mode is full of hacks and we, who pay for online as opposed to these crooks, can't do anything about it. "Just snipe it from the AH" is the FH4's version of Don Mattrick's famous sentence in the failed E3 2013 when he said, "Can't be online 24/7? Get an Xbox 360 instead." It's just not something you do to your fanbase.

May I point out that FH4's sales were boosted by the success of FH3 and player count was boosted by the game being on Game Pass. This game was much different on release from what it is today. In many aspects it was worse, in many others it was better. I could go on and on and write a gigantic post on it, which is pointless since you'll keep gratuitously belittling people who may have invested far more time into this game than you did, are fed of treating this game as if it was a real-life appointment, and don't want to deal with abusive behavior coming from people who for whatever reason will applaud anything the devs do out of spite towards people who are vocal about their issues with the game.


Man, you're riding on that 'lazy' thing for so long. It really seems to have gotten to you. And the more you're repeating it, the more it seems to be the truth about you.

I've already said it, if you don't have time for this because you have a busy life. Then just ignore the whole forzathon playlist thing and play at your own pace, just like the dude above said. Difficulty-wise the game always felt accessible for me, and in most cases I can barely see whats infront of my car.

The championships and challenges are often the same, that's true, but at least you can rely on getting the new exclusive cars after finishing them in a reasonable time. Now, if you complain about how much time these require, imagine how much longer you would have to spend to complete plain different challenges every week.

I just told you that I've sniped 4 very desired cars in 1 hour. That's around 15 minutes for each car. A car that you never have to snipe again if you intend to own 1 sample. Also macros make no sense anymore, because you don't have to type in the search criteria every time when looking for a car, you still gotta be quick though. But don't tell me, the Halo 5 trigger fingers on xbox aren't capable of sinping it quick enough even before the PC players.

If the game was only selling so well because of it's predecessors, it would be dead by now


For your own sake just stop embarrassing yourself buddy.


What a well thought out and perfectly executed rebuttal.


No point wasting time trying to talk to someone who clearly claps like a seal at anything PG do with the game and hasn't listened to a word several others have tried saying to them over many weeks now.


There are people who value it when devs support a game long after it's release with free new content, others prefer to pay 5 bucks for a single McLaren F1.


Like I said, doesn't listen at all.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#238 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 6:34:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
There is not much randomness or high difficulty in completing the required offline challenges to reach the required 50% for the new cars, nor is it very time consuming. It's literally 3 championships, 3 stunts and a weekly forzathon which all can be done anytime during the whole week. Sure, if you miss out on one or two weeks you don't have the guarantee that the cars will return, but so far almost every exclusive has been available afterwards either in the forzathon shop or a single championship. So what's the panic-mongering here?

Same goes for the Pista and the Rossion that were locked behind mulitplayer, the returned now.

Also there is no time gating on any car. If you've missed your all time favorite that you want to drive right away without any compromises, you can snipe it in the auction house. And sniping 1 single car for yourself shouldn't be that much of a problem. As soon as you own it you don't have to do it ever again.

Just to test it, I've got 2 LFA's and 2 AE86's in one hour.

I'm starting to understand why Sony is closing down their game forums, because lot's of nonsense and whining like this.

The game sales and player count is higher than every before in FH, so what's even the deal?


Always the same arguments... Always the same. "Lazy", "nonsense", blah, blah, blah.

See, the biggest issue I have with you guys who support what Playground has been doing since FH3 (and Turn 10 copied in FM7, failing miserably, because the FM community is much more critical), is not your opinion, but the fact you belittle people who don't want to play the Seasonals as "lazy", "entitled", then go on on rants such as "gamers these days!", "dude, just play the game!" and so on.

There are people who, indeed, don't even have the 1 hour required for completing all offline challenges. For them, it's FH4 or something else, and usually the "something else" is more fun and rewarding. Others even lack the skill to either win seasonals or complete PR stunts. This week's Speed Trap is pretty difficult. Why should these people be treated by the devs as "unworthy" of getting the cars? Yes, it takes only 1 hour, but it's 1 hour of grinding events and repeating championships. There's never anything new, it's a constant cycle of old events. There's Forzathons having you earn 1 million skill points, which takes time and skill even in cars with good perks. Their best month was when they added community contest winning routes, but never again. Sometimes the cars even suck, like the Pista, it's just for bragging rights, it's uncompetitive.

When it comes to sniping cars in the AH, most people also don't have time to keep pressing button sequences like automatons in hopes that they win an auction. PC players can resort to automated macros, which breaks the rules. People on the Xbox? Not really. In fact, Xbox has been struggling with the inability to disable crossplay, because the online mode is full of hacks and we, who pay for online as opposed to these crooks, can't do anything about it. "Just snipe it from the AH" is the FH4's version of Don Mattrick's famous sentence in the failed E3 2013 when he said, "Can't be online 24/7? Get an Xbox 360 instead." It's just not something you do to your fanbase.

May I point out that FH4's sales were boosted by the success of FH3 and player count was boosted by the game being on Game Pass. This game was much different on release from what it is today. In many aspects it was worse, in many others it was better. I could go on and on and write a gigantic post on it, which is pointless since you'll keep gratuitously belittling people who may have invested far more time into this game than you did, are fed of treating this game as if it was a real-life appointment, and don't want to deal with abusive behavior coming from people who for whatever reason will applaud anything the devs do out of spite towards people who are vocal about their issues with the game.


Man, you're riding on that 'lazy' thing for so long. It really seems to have gotten to you. And the more you're repeating it, the more it seems to be the truth about you.

I've already said it, if you don't have time for this because you have a busy life. Then just ignore the whole forzathon playlist thing and play at your own pace, just like the dude above said. Difficulty-wise the game always felt accessible for me, and in most cases I can barely see whats infront of my car.

The championships and challenges are often the same, that's true, but at least you can rely on getting the new exclusive cars after finishing them in a reasonable time. Now, if you complain about how much time these require, imagine how much longer you would have to spend to complete plain different challenges every week.

I just told you that I've sniped 4 very desired cars in 1 hour. That's around 15 minutes for each car. A car that you never have to snipe again if you intend to own 1 sample. Also macros make no sense anymore, because you don't have to type in the search criteria every time when looking for a car, you still gotta be quick though. But don't tell me, the Halo 5 trigger fingers on xbox aren't capable of sinping it quick enough even before the PC players.

If the game was only selling so well because of it's predecessors, it would be dead by now


For your own sake just stop embarrassing yourself buddy.


What a well thought out and perfectly executed rebuttal.


No point wasting time trying to talk to someone who clearly claps like a seal at anything PG do with the game and hasn't listened to a word several others have tried saying to them over many weeks now.


There are people who value it when devs support a game long after it's release with free new content, others prefer to pay 5 bucks for a single McLaren F1.


Like I said, doesn't listen at all.


If you listen to written text you aren't very smart, mybe try reading it.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#239 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 6:48:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post

Imagine this in the most dreary apathetic tone possible, it's a live service game.

I grew tired long ago of trying to tell people like you that's why the free content is consistently added and that it isn't out of the kindness of PG's heart, just like it isn't with any other developer with games that use a live service model.

It's ridiculous that with the amount of high profile games in recent years that use it so many people still don't understand a thing about it.


Who said anything about kindness? I was talking about manwork hours and how a car per week is a low number. Live service go hand in hand with Gamepass. Your whole post make no sence. Wrong interpretation. ;)


You said you were amazed that we're still getting free content, if you understood what a live service game entails you wouldn't be.

Again you are mistaken. I said getting free content at such speed. Again responding to a post saying that 4 cars per series is a low number. You should really start reading this forum properly.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#240 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:21:21 AM(UTC)
and you guys are acting like little children, with quotes going for miles and miles.
Take a chill pill on those damn quotes!
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#241 Posted : Thursday, March 5, 2020 5:45:15 PM(UTC)
Not going to quote anything to avoid adding to the mess here, but I do want to respond to accusations of player laziness directed at players who don't like the current vehicle unlock system, and also accusations of these players being ungrateful to the devs.

On the topic of player laziness, I don't really see that in this thread. Most players aren't complaining that vehicles are locked behind challenges, but more about the weekly timegates and the fact that many of the challenges just aren't that interesting with lots of repeats, and some of them requiring online interaction which many players simply don't enjoy.

Also, even if a player truly is "lazy" and wants to just get free cars each week, how is that a problem? One of the marketing points of FH4 was play it your way, and just cruising around in new cars each week instead of racing is a perfectly valid way to play. Plus FM7 did give out new cars each week and that was very well received as far as I can tell.

I can only speak for myself, but my main issue with the current implementation of the system is that it's not at all respectful of players. It forces the player to play Forza every week if they want to access the new content, and punishes them if they don't by denying easy access to the content if they miss a week. Missing one week of game play can deny a player accesss to a particular vehicle for months if it's popular and not readily available on the AH, and as we get closer to the game's EOL there's a very real chance that previously offered exclusive vehicle's won't ever be offered again (see the FH3 EOL exclusive vehicle fiasco). To me, this system treats players like a commodity to be exploited to boost engagement metrics using abusive psychology, rather than paying customers who deserve a good product and IMHO is simply terrible game design.

On the topic of player ungratefulness, I don't really see any players who are ungrateful for the new weekly content. I'm very glad to see the game continuing to be improved (most of the time at least, festival playlist notwithstanding). However, I do see a lot of players (myself included) who speak out against the anti-player aspects of the game. FH4 is not a free gift given to us by the devs that we have to accept as-is, it is a product we paid for. Many aspects of the game are not really as advertised (play it your way) or have changed post-launch (replacing much of the Forzathon shop functionality with the much more annoying festival playlist).

As I've said before elsewhere on the forums, at the end of the day it feels like FH4 has completely lost sight of what made Forza so great in the first place (a good car game made by developers passionate about cars) and has become just another formulaic AAA game as a service title that uses cheap tactics to try to keep players "engaged". If I wanted that sort of abuse there's plenty of other titles to get it from (most of them free) and it sickens me to see this sort of game design in a Forza title.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#242 Posted : Friday, March 6, 2020 2:19:33 AM(UTC)
Not gonna repeat myself over and over again, so I'll keep it short...

Everyone is free to play the game their own way. It's the own ego that tells you to collect all cars
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#243 Posted : Friday, March 6, 2020 3:48:20 AM(UTC)
Pg could sell the cars as an option to doing the tasks.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#244 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2020 8:47:14 PM(UTC)
not every new car needs to be playlist exclusive. the occasional autoshow updates will do just fine.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#245 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:15:45 AM(UTC)
It would be a refreshing change to not have to grind for days to get a couple of new cars. I really want the Cougar Eliminator and the new cars for the "200 photo" thing but it's such a mind numbing game mode I've just accepted that they'll probably be available in another way LONG before I finish those modes. I really wish they were locked behind more interesting challenges like Horizon Stories.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#246 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2020 4:35:34 AM(UTC)
I don't want to be given cars without playing for them... I like playing for them. My dad was very strict, he said that you don't get given anything for nothing. I had to work in his garden if I wanted some money.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#247 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2020 3:22:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
I don't want to be given cars without playing for them... I like playing for them. My dad was very strict, he said that you don't get given anything for nothing. I had to work in his garden if I wanted some money.


FH4 isn't a job though, it's a game, a vehicular fantasyland.

While I personally don't mind having reasonable in-game challenges to unlock things, I also don't want to do a bunch of grinding or have to deal with time gates to get access to the content. I've already got a job IRL and don't need the game to become a second job I don't get paid for.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#248 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2020 1:43:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
I don't want to be given cars without playing for them... I like playing for them. My dad was very strict, he said that you don't get given anything for nothing. I had to work in his garden if I wanted some money.

Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
(assumed context)
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
" why do we have to play the game to get ingame rewards"

Players are here to play the game not get played by the game.

in your own opinion

and you dont speak for everyone else or represent everyone else

not EVERYONE wants to play the same way YOU do

There's no problem if one just prefers playing the game in a different way (even just prefers to be played by the game, as an extreme case), as I've stated:

Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
It's up to the player to decide how the game is meant to be played.


But do realize the key difference between mutual agreement and unilateral demand.



Follow-Up

Edited by user Monday, April 27, 2020 10:27:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#249 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2020 3:06:36 AM(UTC)
To try to illustrate the difference between playing a game how you want vs the game dictating to you:

I often do the Trial at least 10 times in one week, because I enjoy trying out different cars and build/tune options until I feel I've perfected it. However, I wouldn't want the game to require me to do it 10 times, every week, as part of unlocking a new car. If it required me to do it, it would become a chore, even for those weeks where if it didn't require me to do it, I'd do it 10 times just because I wanted to.

I wonder how many of the people who defend the playlist, and argue that people who don't like it don't like playing the game, would feel if it made them do the Trial 10 times every week? It is surely clear to everyone that a person can like playing the game in other ways, at the same time as not wanting to be required to do the Trial 10 times in a week.

There is a simple solution - allow everything in the playlist to be done multiple times, adding the same percentage each time. So if the Trial was worth 10%, you'd be able to reach 100% by doing it 10 times. Or if you particularly enjoy the PR stunts, you could just do those lots of times. If they really really want people to try out every part of the game, maybe require the player to get 100% for a entire monthly update before they unlock this ability to have individual activities count multiple times.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#250 Posted : Sunday, April 12, 2020 3:31:37 AM(UTC)
Thank you. I enjoy racing games, my favorite happens to be the Forza Horizon series. I fell in love driving through Colorado in the original Horizon. That game was great because you could collect all the cars without a time limit. Forza horizon 4 is frustrating because for those of us who simply can not live and breath this game, will miss out. We get left out from claiming "" rare cars that are impossible to unlock anymore and cost 20,000,000 credits in the auction house. I pre-order the Forza Horizon 4 ultimate Edition with the ideal that all DLC is paid for. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the rip off! Now less then half of the DLC in the game is given to the players that payed $100 for it. The other three quarters is given to all the people who only payed $60 just because they have more time to waist collecting the cars. You spite the people who pay top dollar for your game just to have more people log in every day to look better. That is a real shady move. Disappointment
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