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Rank: Racing Permit
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#1 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 1:45:10 PM(UTC)
I'd like to preface about thanking Playground for all the hard work they put into this. It certainly would be taxing going over the map four times and swapping out everything. (although this could be accomplished with plugins quite easily, not sure if they did that.)

But, come on, let's be honest. No one cares about this mechanic. At most, you have people going "Uh, sure. It's a neat feature." and at absolute worst you have people going "Winter? Yeah, I'm coming back in a week." Be honest with yourself. If Forza Horizon 5 was announced with it's classic "Summer of your life!" and complete lack of seasons, about how many people would say it's an absolute dealbreaker and hate that it's gone? Very, very little. Maybe even not at all! We're here for the perfect racing physics and a fantastic music festival, not one of real life's most annoying aspects. Even the reviews I've watched have tacked the seasons on like an afterthought, and even one reviewer saying it's "a cool little thing to stick on the back of the box." I hate to say this, but I feel Playground was grasping at straws adding this feature in. While yes, improving and adding new things to a video game series is extremely important, I'd rather have a good series that changes little with the occasional awesome new feature than one that consistently gets worse with bigger, unnecessary additions. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. The season's addition positively struggles to make an impact, but when it does, it's not good at all. Let's start with something simple. You're locked into them a week straight. It was 2018 when this game came out, and I already feel it jumped back a few years with this. Oh, how dare I want dry, sunny roads and a pleasing, warm aesthetic as much as I want. No, I'm forced to slide around and have the entire map look depressing and gray for the next whole week. The second I picked up the 2KGT, I left the game have am now patiently waiting for Spring to come back. Not sure if it's true, but I heard that 2/3rds of the playerbase disappear during winter. If it is, I'm not surprised one bit. Winter is the bane of my enjoyment with this game. 80% of the roads aren't even salted, and you slide around everywhere. Last month's winter had a speed trap that took me like 30 mins to get right, not because of any tough turns or setups, but because the slight turn it was situated around would slide off even the grippiest of cars in the snow. The 599XXE, the car that can corner at like 200+mph, couldn't do it, even with an AWD swap. Yeah, real fun gameplay, where my driving abilities are heavily hindered for a week. 80% of the roads are snowy, 15% are wet, and the remaining 5% are actual, decent, salted roads. I hate winter in real life, and I hate it in Forza Horizon 4. You can set the clock forward to skip seasons, and PG is handing out bans for it. I don't blame these people one bit unless they're doing it to obtain seasonal exclusives that aren't available yet. Speaking of Playground they're REALLY proud of this dumb mechanic. They won't let you forget it, like the seasons is a major selling point. Everything

from their merch

https://www.microsoft.co...etab=pivot%3aoverviewtab

to their promotional gifts

https://twitter.com/DonJ...atus/1243179087797063683

are bragging about seasons. Speaking of, who's the genius that decided to print earth's basic environmental changes one shirt and label it Forza Horizon merchandise? Still waiting for a fake festival souvenir shirt mockup that replicates other real-life festivals, but that looks like it isn't important enough compared to making sure people know different times of year have different temperatures. The devs brag about how seasons change everything. None of them do, besides winter, which only changes my desire to play the game to zero percent. I'm not focusing on what colors the trees are or if the puddle right in front of me was there last week, I'm focusing on how to most effectively take a corner at 120mph. What do cars and seasons share so much anyway? Maybe offroading in the winter? That's about all I can think of. I mean, most people who own nice cars literally garage them in the cold months, so if anything, it hurts cars. Seasons change nothing but appearance, and the age-old lesson everybody knows says that appearance isn't everything.

I'm going to finish with the future of the Horizon franchise. Playground isn't going to remove this pointless mechanic since they seem to care about wowing critics who will play the game for a maximum of two hours than their hardcore fans. The future locations of the game worry me as well. Thankfully Japan is still on the list as it has a diverse climate, but I was really hoping to see California, Brazil, or Dubai appear in a future title. But guess not. The Horizon Festival has gone from a humble music festival to feeling like a theme park. The whole point of music festivals are how limited they are. I'm pretty sure they don't have the guts to cut this feature out, despite the fact it would improve the series greatly. I care. Your playerbase cares. This forum cares. The average critic and casual do not. They play the game a few hours and drop it forever when the next big release hits. Horizon 4 is an amazing game, and this is the biggest thing holding it back. You may not be able to get every car the community wants in the game, you may accidentally leave out a few features or miss a bug or two. But please, listen to this. We want real innovation. Custom Bucketlists were innovative. The weekly Festival Playlist is innovation. Seasons aren't.






Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#2 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 1:56:21 PM(UTC)
Agreed, the seasons mechanic as implemented are far from ideal. I get the feeling this poor implementation is yet another casualty of the game's online first focus, because if players could pick a desired season in offline mode, it would make playing offline superior to online freeroam, and further reduce the number of players in online freeroam. So instead they made the game worse for everyone.

Don't get me wrong, the different seasons are neat, but they don't change everything, and forcing seasons on players was absolutely the wrong decision IMHO.

I doubt the devs will fix anything with the seasons at this point, but if I could give one suggestion it would be that there should be a menu option to change the season at any time, both in solo and online freeroam. For online freeroam, just match up players who have chosen the same season. Go ahead and keep the seasonal events in the "current" season for some variety, but let players otherwise play the game in the season of their choosing. Additionally, offline players and players in a private freeroam adventure should be able to choose time of day and weather from the pause menu for photo and such.

Hopefully the next Forza will be more focused on being a great game instead of treating players like a commodity to be used to bolster online metrics.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 2:13:03 PM(UTC)
Seasons are bad for Stories, but most other things they are OK.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#4 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 2:20:39 PM(UTC)
Nice idea but pointless + purely superficial for 3 of every 4 weeks, predictably hyped up to high heaven before release as there really wasn't much else to advertise and of course people lapped it up and proclaimed it a game changer as some never ever learn with AAA games and companies.

Sure it may have been paid DLC but I would much rather still have something like Blizzard Mountain that I can go to anytime I want for winter driving rather than wait 3 weeks for 1 week of it.

I won't name names but on this forum there's a couple of people I'm expecting to jump all over you for saying this OP.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 2:53:45 PM(UTC)
Just type Forza Horizon 4 in Bing, look at the little section on the right hand side about it and read the very 1st sentence.

What it should actually say is 'Dynamic seasons change nothing except for 1 week in every 4 at supposedly the world's greatest automotive festival but where the festival itself means nothing anymore and is merely a garage with awful music blaring out every time you leave it.'
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#6 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 3:12:42 PM(UTC)
Sorry to say Winter is my preferred season, I also enjoy the difference of grip between dry and wet roads. I find this mechanic well done, only corner case I have is the street races for which I cannot manually set the season. Having seasons leads to having cars adapted which avoid keeping always the same cars.
Up to me, winter still comes with bit excessive grip, Blizzard mountain was better on this aspect.
Others than street races, we can create custom races with exactly the season and weather conditions we want, so that, even playing only offline, the impact on racing is quite low.
So definitely, I hope it will stay even if I would be surprised even race feature survives to Eliminator trend.



Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#7 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 3:27:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Sorry to say Winter is my preferred season, I also enjoy the difference of grip between dry and wet roads. I find this mechanic well done, only corner case I have is the street races for which I cannot manually set the season. Having seasons leads to having cars adapted which avoid keeping always the same cars.
Up to me, winter still comes with bit excessive grip, Blizzard mountain was better on this aspect.
Others than street races, we can create custom races with exactly the season and weather conditions we want, so that, even playing only offline, the impact on racing is quite low.
So definitely, I hope it will stay even if I would be surprised even race feature survives to Eliminator trend.



I enjoy the seasonal change in car handling as well, and especially the difference in winter, but not the forced aspect of it. The forced seasons are the reason winter handling is so grippy, since this season is forced on everyone they had to make it unrealistically easy to drive to avoid too many players skipping the season entirely, as opposed to Blizzard Mountain where players could CHOOSE to go to winter if they wanted it.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 4:12:29 PM(UTC)
I want to say the I do think seasons is an amazing technical accomplishment, but I strongly believe both the last 2 Horizon maps were built to show off new graphics engine as opposed to being interesting to drive in. I would gladly trade seasons for a map twice as big as this one with more interesting locations and roads to drive.

Edited by user Saturday, March 28, 2020 4:14:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#9 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 5:30:30 PM(UTC)
Paragraphs, please.

Well, the seasons are a graphically impressive achievement, and that's why I enjoy them. However, the true reason behind them is that FH4 was developed as a service, to take full advantage of Game Pass. That's why it relies too much on timed content, and the seasons help keep the game fresh.

Unfortunately, PG rarely utilizes the seasons well and the timed events feel "random". Consider that, this season (Winter), to win a BMW M3 GTR (Track Toy, more suited to Summer conditions), we need to play through a Trucks championship where the Unimog is the obvious winner next to the MB Racing Truck. A player interested in the M3 GTR is unlikely to enjoy Winter, let alone driving a Unimog in a Cross Country event. Suffice to say, this week's Winter events do a terrible job at drawing people into Winter.

Furthermore, there's very few tracks which greatly change during Winter. You have Glen Rannoch covered in snow, but that's just harsher conditions, no actual change. There's a CC route near Whitewater Falls where the water freezes during Winter, which is a significant change. It also happens at Mudkickers. But most of the Road Racing routes are just their Summer/Autumn/Spring versions but in snow. The difference between the other seasons is even less... They had to add hay bales to the fields to make CC in Autumn a little different (and annoying!).

I'd be very happy if the game was always Spring TBH, with a little less rain.

Edited by user Saturday, March 28, 2020 5:36:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#10 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 6:08:11 PM(UTC)
I stopped reading the wall of text when I got to the point of saying seasons was an afterthought when their pre-release motto was seasons change everything.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#11 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 6:24:17 PM(UTC)
I like winter, I think it has the most beautiful scenery of any of the seasons.

However, the seasons need to be properly integrated into the game, for example we need to be able to choose the season in rivals so we can have leaderboards for each season. The stories need to either fix the conditions, or have different targets for 1/2/3 stars and different leaderboards per season. Same for PR stunts.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#12 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 11:31:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
I doubt the devs will fix anything with the seasons at this point, but if I could give one suggestion it would be that there should be a menu option to change the season at any time, both in solo and online freeroam. For online freeroam, just match up players who have chosen the same season. Go ahead and keep the seasonal events in the "current" season for some variety, but let players otherwise play the game in the season of their choosing. Additionally, offline players and players in a private freeroam adventure should be able to choose time of day and weather from the pause menu for photo and such.

I like this.

I made a poll. You can vote here --> POLL
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#13 Posted : Saturday, March 28, 2020 11:32:04 PM(UTC)
Holy Wall of Text, Batman! Too long, didn't read.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#14 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 12:08:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
I like winter, I think it has the most beautiful scenery of any of the seasons.

However, the seasons need to be properly integrated into the game, for example we need to be able to choose the season in rivals so we can have leaderboards for each season. The stories need to either fix the conditions, or have different targets for 1/2/3 stars and different leaderboards per season. Same for PR stunts.


Same page, their fear of too many leader boards is so unjustified. Sadly, too late to expect any evolution on FH4. Since FH4 rivals is already something they were willing to remove from FH, I strongly doubt it will be there on FH5. same applies for tuning ( new eliminator tuning upgrade way ) and I am so afraid same for races (only route creator keeps me expecting). Next FH5 online could be just Eliminator that I would not be surprised.

Be careful about what we wish, T10 is a Djinn, always corrupts whatever people wish, we could as well end up with permanent rain conditions as being popular expectation of Britain weather.
Rank: Racing Legend
#15 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 1:49:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
I like winter, I think it has the most beautiful scenery of any of the seasons.

However, the seasons need to be properly integrated into the game, for example we need to be able to choose the season in rivals so we can have leaderboards for each season. The stories need to either fix the conditions, or have different targets for 1/2/3 stars and different leaderboards per season. Same for PR stunts.


Same page, their fear of too many leader boards is so unjustified. Sadly, too late to expect any evolution on FH4. Since FH4 rivals is already something they were willing to remove from FH, I strongly doubt it will be there on FH5. same applies for tuning ( new eliminator tuning upgrade way ) and I am so afraid same for races (only route creator keeps me expecting). Next FH5 online could be just Eliminator that I would not be surprised.

Be careful about what we wish, T10 is a Djinn, always corrupts whatever people wish, we could as well end up with permanent rain conditions as being popular expectation of Britain weather.


except that Turn 10 don't make the Horizon games, Playground does
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#16 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:17:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
I like winter, I think it has the most beautiful scenery of any of the seasons.

However, the seasons need to be properly integrated into the game, for example we need to be able to choose the season in rivals so we can have leaderboards for each season. The stories need to either fix the conditions, or have different targets for 1/2/3 stars and different leaderboards per season. Same for PR stunts.


I am personally glad rivals is only summer and think it should stay that way. It's already spread very thin, out of millions? of players most leaderboards only have a few thousand, or in the case of the DLC, even a few hundred participants. To dilute this by four times would not be welcome. And the weather would merely add an additional unwelcome element of 'luck' to the times. If they really want to do something useful which everyone would probably applaud, take the damn traffic out of street race rivals.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 2:19:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
I like winter, I think it has the most beautiful scenery of any of the seasons.

However, the seasons need to be properly integrated into the game, for example we need to be able to choose the season in rivals so we can have leaderboards for each season. The stories need to either fix the conditions, or have different targets for 1/2/3 stars and different leaderboards per season. Same for PR stunts.


Same page, their fear of too many leader boards is so unjustified.


Is it?

I bet if they had winter rivals leaderboards, they would be a ghost town.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:13:07 AM(UTC)
Some Rivals leaderboards are already ghost towns as it is, with barely 200-300 or so times set.

Randomised Traffic is part of Street Scene, that's integral part of it making it different from Road Racing. I somewhat understand the frustration, it needs more patience than Road events, but no one is forced to enter in Street Scene Rivals.


I have written before in similar topics how I feel it's weird how little they did with seasons.

First the good things

This month Trial is good example how variable route design can add to experience. Lakehurst Forest Sprint. Last segment which is snow covered is really fun with S1. There are other examples on Derwent Reservoir Trail and the Marathon in Street Scene and Lake District Sprint in Road Racing (though latter shares segment(s) with Reservoir Trail and the Marathon).

Visually it's really refreshing to have seasons.

There are other bit and pieces mentioned in topic, but in they are so few end it feels like winter is a bit of wasted opportunity. They could have also designed some crazy challenges like on Blizzard Mountain expansion to FH3 by creating more winter exclusive routes, a lot could have been done with props, but all we got was one Drag race on lake.

Autumn / Spring / Summer are very similar, only difference being where it rains and where it doesn't.

Options:

Spring, why all the ice needs to disappear at once? There could be packed ice formation on Derwent Lake, creating natural bridge over it, Spring exclusive route that could be Dirt or Cross Country, though hopping on some ice rafts could create better extreme CC experience, so why not both?

Autumn, there could be more done with weather dynamics, having some ice and sludge appear on routes blueprinted to night / early morning.

There are more possibilities than those, some appeared on Community/Developer custom championships on Playlist when we still used to get those, but I think everyone gets the idea. Seasons make some things possible, but there's no content that takes advantage of those opportunities.

I like seasons, but I agree that they can feel somewhat redundant, visual addition.


Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Be careful about what we wish, T10 is a Djinn, always corrupts whatever people wish, we could as well end up with permanent rain conditions as being popular expectation of Britain weather.


Developer is Playground Games, though MP and Horizon share car models and engine, what other role Turn 10 has in this? Double seats?
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#19 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:20:13 AM(UTC)
What I think, beside TL DR
Ow so many people have too much time on their hands.
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
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#20 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 3:25:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: El Barto inc Go to Quoted Post
What I think, beside TL DR
Ow so many people have too much time on their hands.


Given the global situation with pandemic, how exactly that comes as a surprise?

If you like the seasons like they are, why not tell what makes them work for you. Positive feedback is important too, no point in fixing what works.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#21 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 4:58:18 AM(UTC)
Hopefully FH5 will be set in summer only. That's my feedback. Will help with the tedious loading times too.
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#22 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 6:47:43 AM(UTC)
I agree OP, seasons were a waste, and forcing them on us is just plain wrong. The worst part though? Winter is too much of a compromise because it is forced on us. Blizzard mountain was a far, far, far superior winter. I'll be very mad if seasons make a return in FH5.

What we need are biomes. Purpose built locations that suit each condition best. We could even somewhat keep the theme of seasons and have seasonal events each week focused on one of the biomes. Even if there are still loading screens and even if it did reduce the overall size, 4 purpose built maps would be a far better experience than 4 of the same map with a watered down experience on all.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 7:02:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheGillesMuller Go to Quoted Post
Just type Forza Horizon 4 in Bing, look at the little section on the right hand side about it and read the very 1st sentence.

What it should actually say is 'Dynamic seasons change nothing except for 1 week in every 4 at supposedly the world's greatest automotive festival but where the festival itself means nothing anymore and is merely a garage with awful music blaring out every time you leave it.'


You wouldn't want the seasons to last the right length of time, especially in England.. lol.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 7:38:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
I bet if they had winter rivals leaderboards, they would be a ghost town.

I think some of them would get plenty of action because people would want to test for online racing. Not so much Lego and FI, though, as they aren't used for online adventure.

The current Trial is a good example, we can't test those tracks in those conditions in rivals. Testing in races against the AI is frustrating because you can easily lose some time getting past them at the start, and there's no sharing of times in the game to crowdsource what the best cars are.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Sunday, March 29, 2020 7:52:46 AM(UTC)
I agree it would be useful for that purpose. Would more than a handful of hardcore people use it for that though? I don't know. I doubt it though.

Even now, a lot of the top rivals times are set using cars and tunes for that one track alone; ie. only suitable for perfect conditions, dry road, no other racers. In a series of races you would usually need a compromise car which can do a decent job in all circumstances, rather than being the absolute best car at all three tracks. (If you include freeroam rush then it would need to be even more of a compromise.)

We don't have winter rivals now but we still know which cars are good and which aren't. Knowing which one is 0.2 seconds quicker than another might be nice to know for some people but for the rest of us, the 99.9% majority, it doesn't matter, particularly for races.

Edited by user Sunday, March 29, 2020 7:53:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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