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I've been discussing the playlist change in this thread since the week it went live. What could I possibly have been comparing it to other than the release build?

can we get back to the actual topic - the replacement of a less-restrictive endgame reward mechanism with a more restrictive one, and how it's a regression from PG's purported design principle of "freedom"?

Uh, maybe that you were comparing it to how things were in previous Horizon games and why that was better than Horizon 4?! Because that's how I interpreted your responses given the information that you provided me.

Anyway, the exact timing of when PG made the changes doesn't actually affect my position on anything we talked about. However, it does serve to be the missing piece of information that finally helps me to understand why you've been so hostile toward PG. All. This. Time. And that is what I've been trying to figure out from our conversations. Mystery solved.





I think I deserve some serious Xbox Achievement points for cracking the code to why the main character was so angry and disgruntled at PG. It was the worst game I've ever played. Insipid story line. Sparse and cryptic dialogue. Circular discussion. Absent character development. Unrewarding plot twist of an ending. Basically a totally uninspiring experience and complete waste of time. In final: I don't recommend this game.








You nutz?!!! Heck no! I ain't playin’ this game again!!!

By any metric, you spent far more of that post talking about me than you did about the argument at hand. I would again suggest getting back on topic, so I'll ask again - in what way is this anything other than a regression from PG's previously stated design principle? We've been talking about this change for 8 months now, and I'm still waiting for a convincing argument for why this is a good thing.

But no one's forcing you to do it.

But it's only one car.

This feature needs to go. Now.

When the Horizon Playlists first came out, they were branded as a new way to play. That is major baloney. We've been doing the same tasks over and over again ever since they first came out. All this did was turn the game into a mindless grind, jumping through the same hoops each season. This isn't fun. This is just a mindless grind.


You're right. No one is actually forcing me to play these events. No one is holding a gun to my head saying "If you don't do the Trial, I'm going to kill you and your family". But the problem is that the Playlists are still shoved into your face. As much as someone tries to avoid doing the events they don't like, they just can't shake the feeling that they're missing out on something. It doesn't help that everytime you start the game up, you get taken to the Festival Playlists with the percentages and rewards thrust in your face. It's like an annoying pop-up ad on the computer.


The thing is, games are meant to be completed, and many gamers are, by nature, completionists. Think back to when games didn't have DLC, live services, or any form of post-release content. Didn't you want to complete the game and experience everything? Heck, look at Forza Motorsport 2. You get a secret achievement for owning every car in the game. Keep in mind, that not everyone was here from launch, so for many people, those Trials or Playground Games may be their first opportunity to get whatever car is locked behind those modes. So no, it's not just one car. It's part of a package that people paid for.

So please Playground Games, take it back to the way things were before. Let people pick and choose what events they want to do without feeling incomplete.

It Never tells me what restrictions are in the event regarding front wheel drive only, or rear wheel drive only.

In a year of playing, I remember there were 3 championships with drivetrain restrictions, 2x RWD and 1x FWD. But that restriction was stated in championship description, if you however over it on the map.
One other was trial with stock Caterham (that I gladly stayed out).
Everything else is free and since I drive with keyboard, I build all of my cars as AWD and never had any problems regarding that.

At this moment, I don't log in very often. I log in once per week, do the seasonal stuff and the Forzathon challenge, then I am off again. I don't like the multiplayer in this game, due to freeroam rush, rammers and wallriders. So I appreciate every little bit that makes me want to log in. Doing one daily is certainly not the thing that I am looking for.

I really, really like the coop trials, because most of the time it is an OK-ish race environment, since people want their team to win and it can lead to interesting races with people who can drive well for the top spot.

I think noone really asks for free stuff, but depending on your likes, you will complain if it does not fit your game style. Drifters will complain if it is about racing, online guys complain when they have to do meaningless offline races, offline guys don't want to drift and so on.

So I took all the postings here and I tried to make challenges that might be interesting for everyone.

At first let me say that it is impossible to do THE ONE challenge that makes everyone happy, so I included something for everyone, let us call it FH4 decathlon. I made sure to make use of the most complaints and try to avoid them:
- not time gated
- achievable for everyone
- challenging content

I would use the Forzathon points, reset them and force every saved forzathon point into super wheelspins. This means, if you have 300 points, you get 2 SWs, if you have 301, you get 3, if you have 449, you get 3 and so on. I do this so I can use the points and avoid people just rightclicking the reward, because they have saved 100k Forzathon points.

During one month, you get the main price for 40k Forzathon points

1. once per week: win an offline race against unbeatable AI on track XYZ, 10 laps and rewind off -> 1k Forzathon points per race type (street race, road race, dirt race and offroad) = 4K total per event = 16k total
2. once per week: Drift challenge: get points XXXXXX in the following 3 drift tracks -> 1k FP = 4k total
3. There are 4 Forzathon challenges (the 4 stages with one car thingie) per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4k FP
4. Seasonal trials: There are 4 seasonal trials per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
5. seasonal team based PG games once per week: each win gives you 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
6. monthly rivals: 5k FP points if you manage to be in top 20%, 2500 if you manage to reach top 50%
7. qualify for unranked adventure once per month (or 10 races): 5k FP
8. one drag race per week: 1k FP if you manage top 20% or 500 FP if you manage top 50%= 4k FP max
9. Four championship events on Fortune Island per week against Expert AI, each event gives 250 FP = 4k total
10. Four seasonal challenges (jump, speed zone, high speed) per week, each 250 FP = 4k total
11. each daily challenge gives you 100 FP and if you manage to do all 7 you get 300 extra points for a total of 1k per week = 4K FP total

This gives you a total of 58k FP points. So you have some wiggling room and can leave out events/challenges that you dislike or simply cannot do due to skill. If you do not manage to reach 40k FP via the events, you can grind the Forzathon online events.

Obviously I have not really thought much about the point system, it might need some balancing, but an event like this would not force you into stuff that you dislike, you can leave one week out (vacation/work stuff) and still get it, it would populate the servers, it is a lot to do and if you do everything, you have even more more wiggling room the next month. So you can get a lot of points if you plan a vacation e.g. And the really great thing about this system is that you even include points for lesser skilled guys. So for example Point 1: if you win vs pro, you get half the points and a quarter if you win vs expert.
Everyone could play whatever they want and collect huge amount of points in areas they excel in.

I think it needs more thought, but it would be fair for everyone. Even absolute casual gamers with low game time and low skill would be able to snag a reward once in a while, but not all of them.

What do you think?

@ziperrPL
and that recent AWD offroad, yes. I forgot about that one, as already stated, all of my cars are AWD.
But even that one had stated restriction on championship description.

For those RWD I remember driving S1 Viper and S2 Porsche and something small as FWD Honda or Reanault.