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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 4:30:36 AM(UTC)
What about working clutch? I still don't know if the game can't do proper clutch or my configuration is bad.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#27 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 7:25:06 AM(UTC)
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

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#28 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 1:25:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?

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#29 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 11:34:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?



Yeah, honestly, I've never been able to identify with this "wheel elitist" attitude or how you can *only* experience a game's physics on a wheel and pedal setup. Honestly, it's the most ridiculous and childish thing I've ever heard, really. The code for the game is the same - if you're going to use the pad like you're playing an arcade racing game - whack and jam the analog stick and triggers - then yes, it won't feel like a sim.

When I find the time, I will upload my videos for AC and PCARS2 playing on a pad. You cannot tell the difference. Pad control is great on both and allows you to experience the game in its glory.

This nonsense argument is like saying "Oh, you need a flight stick or yolk to play all your flying games or sims" - or "you need a peripheral that resembles a handgun or rifle to play all your shooters".

Utter nonsense - that you will only hear from *wheel elitists*.

I personally am not training to be a pro driver and love each game on the pad just fine. It feels intuitive and I know what my car is doing or about to do. For me personally, that is good enough.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2020 8:38:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?



Yeah, honestly, I've never been able to identify with this "wheel elitist" attitude or how you can *only* experience a game's physics on a wheel and pedal setup. Honestly, it's the most ridiculous and childish thing I've ever heard, really. The code for the game is the same - if you're going to use the pad like you're playing an arcade racing game - whack and jam the analog stick and triggers - then yes, it won't feel like a sim.

When I find the time, I will upload my videos for AC and PCARS2 playing on a pad. You cannot tell the difference. Pad control is great on both and allows you to experience the game in its glory.

This nonsense argument is like saying "Oh, you need a flight stick or yolk to play all your flying games or sims" - or "you need a peripheral that resembles a handgun or rifle to play all your shooters".

Utter nonsense - that you will only hear from *wheel elitists*.

I personally am not training to be a pro driver and love each game on the pad just fine. It feels intuitive and I know what my car is doing or about to do. For me personally, that is good enough.


Of course you cant identify with the wheel elitism, you play on a pad. There is a reason that these games are called simulators, you are trying to simulate. A pad is about the farthest thing from even a low end wheel and pedals, which completely takes away the simulation. And while the underlying physics coded into the game are the same (except in forza with its built in assists for pad users). It is a very different interpretation of the physics as you are not using a relative medium to a car. It is very difficult to tell if the physics are remotely accurate, as you are taking your inputs and trying to relate that to what it would be like if you are in a car and using the cars *wheel and pedals*.

I am not even trying to be an elitist, anyone can enjoy anything they want. It's just humorous to me when people look for the best sim but are playing on a pad, which takes away from the sim factor. Yes, pcars and ac are both better for racing in general tho as they have settings to create a better race atmosphere, qualifying etc. which anyone can enjoy.

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#31 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2020 1:56:33 PM(UTC)
LOL, sim factor. No, it's about right physics. If a game has it you can play it on whatever you want. If you like driving without g-force on a wheel, it's your problem. It doesn't feel more real than a pad for me.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 12:34:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?



Yeah, honestly, I've never been able to identify with this "wheel elitist" attitude or how you can *only* experience a game's physics on a wheel and pedal setup. Honestly, it's the most ridiculous and childish thing I've ever heard, really. The code for the game is the same - if you're going to use the pad like you're playing an arcade racing game - whack and jam the analog stick and triggers - then yes, it won't feel like a sim.

When I find the time, I will upload my videos for AC and PCARS2 playing on a pad. You cannot tell the difference. Pad control is great on both and allows you to experience the game in its glory.

This nonsense argument is like saying "Oh, you need a flight stick or yolk to play all your flying games or sims" - or "you need a peripheral that resembles a handgun or rifle to play all your shooters".

Utter nonsense - that you will only hear from *wheel elitists*.

I personally am not training to be a pro driver and love each game on the pad just fine. It feels intuitive and I know what my car is doing or about to do. For me personally, that is good enough.


Of course you cant identify with the wheel elitism, you play on a pad. There is a reason that these games are called simulators, you are trying to simulate. A pad is about the farthest thing from even a low end wheel and pedals, which completely takes away the simulation. And while the underlying physics coded into the game are the same (except in forza with its built in assists for pad users). It is a very different interpretation of the physics as you are not using a relative medium to a car. It is very difficult to tell if the physics are remotely accurate, as you are taking your inputs and trying to relate that to what it would be like if you are in a car and using the cars *wheel and pedals*.

I am not even trying to be an elitist, anyone can enjoy anything they want. It's just humorous to me when people look for the best sim but are playing on a pad, which takes away from the sim factor. Yes, pcars and ac are both better for racing in general tho as they have settings to create a better race atmosphere, qualifying etc. which anyone can enjoy.


A pad does not rob away from the sim experience just as a keyboard+mouse combo does not rob away from the physics of a flight sim. You can be adept at both a flight stick+pedals+throttle or mouse/keyboard as well as a pad or racing wheel for driving sims. It's a matter of being adept.

If your argument holds true that "you absolutely have to have a wheel" to experience the physics the way the developer meant - then I suppose you need a simulation rig at the bare minimum to simulate all the g-forces, innit? Otherwise, you can never truly feel the physics engine....

Final note, I never said I've never played AC, PCARS, Forza, Dirt on a wheel. You assumed I haven't.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 14, 2020 12:35:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:07:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
LOL, sim factor. No, it's about right physics. If a game has it you can play it on whatever you want. If you like driving without g-force on a wheel, it's your problem. It doesn't feel more real than a pad for me.


Says its about the physics being "right" yet primarily plays forza on a pad, which i already said has baked in assists that you cant remove. This comment makes no sense: "Doesn't feel more real than a pad to me." Next time you jump in your car to go to the store let me know how it was to drive using your gamepad.

You got me there, there are no gforces to a static rig, but a static rig with a wheel and pedals coupled with vr is a huge difference from sitting on the couch playing with a pad.

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#34 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:23:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?



Yeah, honestly, I've never been able to identify with this "wheel elitist" attitude or how you can *only* experience a game's physics on a wheel and pedal setup. Honestly, it's the most ridiculous and childish thing I've ever heard, really. The code for the game is the same - if you're going to use the pad like you're playing an arcade racing game - whack and jam the analog stick and triggers - then yes, it won't feel like a sim.

When I find the time, I will upload my videos for AC and PCARS2 playing on a pad. You cannot tell the difference. Pad control is great on both and allows you to experience the game in its glory.

This nonsense argument is like saying "Oh, you need a flight stick or yolk to play all your flying games or sims" - or "you need a peripheral that resembles a handgun or rifle to play all your shooters".

Utter nonsense - that you will only hear from *wheel elitists*.

I personally am not training to be a pro driver and love each game on the pad just fine. It feels intuitive and I know what my car is doing or about to do. For me personally, that is good enough.


Of course you cant identify with the wheel elitism, you play on a pad. There is a reason that these games are called simulators, you are trying to simulate. A pad is about the farthest thing from even a low end wheel and pedals, which completely takes away the simulation. And while the underlying physics coded into the game are the same (except in forza with its built in assists for pad users). It is a very different interpretation of the physics as you are not using a relative medium to a car. It is very difficult to tell if the physics are remotely accurate, as you are taking your inputs and trying to relate that to what it would be like if you are in a car and using the cars *wheel and pedals*.

I am not even trying to be an elitist, anyone can enjoy anything they want. It's just humorous to me when people look for the best sim but are playing on a pad, which takes away from the sim factor. Yes, pcars and ac are both better for racing in general tho as they have settings to create a better race atmosphere, qualifying etc. which anyone can enjoy.


A pad does not rob away from the sim experience just as a keyboard+mouse combo does not rob away from the physics of a flight sim. You can be adept at both a flight stick+pedals+throttle or mouse/keyboard as well as a pad or racing wheel for driving sims. It's a matter of being adept.

If your argument holds true that "you absolutely have to have a wheel" to experience the physics the way the developer meant - then I suppose you need a simulation rig at the bare minimum to simulate all the g-forces, innit? Otherwise, you can never truly feel the physics engine....

Final note, I never said I've never played AC, PCARS, Forza, Dirt on a wheel. You assumed I haven't.


How doesnt a pad take away from the simulation aspect?

sim·u·la·tion
/ˌsimyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
imitation of a situation or process.
"simulation of blood flowing through arteries and veins"
the action of pretending; deception.
"clever simulation that's good enough to trick you"

By definition it is hard to simulate using the wrong medium because you can not imitate the process.

Control method in a flight sim does not effect how physics are felt. For about the past decade force feedback joysticks had very limited availabilty. So with no ffb the means of input matter much less. However i would argue that someone with a yoke and joystick are simulating flight much more than someone on a mouse and keypad as they are imitating the process. By your own comment someone using a flight sim that doesnt have a gyroscopic seat is not simulating either.

With that said about the motion vs static. I would absolutely love a motion rig in both a flight sim or to sim race however i personally cant justify it due to the cost so I will make due with my static rig. FYI it is said by many and i wont disagree this is the biggest difficulty of sim racing vs real racing/driving is the lack of seat of pants feel. This is why many real racers have a hard time adjusting to sim racing, but just because they have no seat of pants feel doesnt mean they are going to instead pick up a controller thinking "cant feel the car underneath me so i may as well go with a pad instead. its close enough"


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#35 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:45:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Asks about best console sim.... plays on a gamepad...

What is wrong with a gamepad? Gameped is for Need for speed and Crew only?



Yeah, honestly, I've never been able to identify with this "wheel elitist" attitude or how you can *only* experience a game's physics on a wheel and pedal setup. Honestly, it's the most ridiculous and childish thing I've ever heard, really. The code for the game is the same - if you're going to use the pad like you're playing an arcade racing game - whack and jam the analog stick and triggers - then yes, it won't feel like a sim.

When I find the time, I will upload my videos for AC and PCARS2 playing on a pad. You cannot tell the difference. Pad control is great on both and allows you to experience the game in its glory.

This nonsense argument is like saying "Oh, you need a flight stick or yolk to play all your flying games or sims" - or "you need a peripheral that resembles a handgun or rifle to play all your shooters".

Utter nonsense - that you will only hear from *wheel elitists*.

I personally am not training to be a pro driver and love each game on the pad just fine. It feels intuitive and I know what my car is doing or about to do. For me personally, that is good enough.


Of course you cant identify with the wheel elitism, you play on a pad. There is a reason that these games are called simulators, you are trying to simulate. A pad is about the farthest thing from even a low end wheel and pedals, which completely takes away the simulation. And while the underlying physics coded into the game are the same (except in forza with its built in assists for pad users). It is a very different interpretation of the physics as you are not using a relative medium to a car. It is very difficult to tell if the physics are remotely accurate, as you are taking your inputs and trying to relate that to what it would be like if you are in a car and using the cars *wheel and pedals*.

I am not even trying to be an elitist, anyone can enjoy anything they want. It's just humorous to me when people look for the best sim but are playing on a pad, which takes away from the sim factor. Yes, pcars and ac are both better for racing in general tho as they have settings to create a better race atmosphere, qualifying etc. which anyone can enjoy.


A pad does not rob away from the sim experience just as a keyboard+mouse combo does not rob away from the physics of a flight sim. You can be adept at both a flight stick+pedals+throttle or mouse/keyboard as well as a pad or racing wheel for driving sims. It's a matter of being adept.

If your argument holds true that "you absolutely have to have a wheel" to experience the physics the way the developer meant - then I suppose you need a simulation rig at the bare minimum to simulate all the g-forces, innit? Otherwise, you can never truly feel the physics engine....

Final note, I never said I've never played AC, PCARS, Forza, Dirt on a wheel. You assumed I haven't.


How doesnt a pad take away from the simulation aspect?

sim·u·la·tion
/ˌsimyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
imitation of a situation or process.
"simulation of blood flowing through arteries and veins"
the action of pretending; deception.
"clever simulation that's good enough to trick you"

By definition it is hard to simulate using the wrong medium because you can not imitate the process.

Control method in a flight sim does not effect how physics are felt. For about the past decade force feedback joysticks had very limited availabilty. So with no ffb the means of input matter much less. However i would argue that someone with a yoke and joystick are simulating flight much more than someone on a mouse and keypad as they are imitating the process. By your own comment someone using a flight sim that doesnt have a gyroscopic seat is not simulating either.

With that said about the motion vs static. I would absolutely love a motion rig in both a flight sim or to sim race however i personally cant justify it due to the cost so I will make due with my static rig. FYI it is said by many and i wont disagree this is the biggest difficulty of sim racing vs real racing/driving is the lack of seat of pants feel. This is why many real racers have a hard time adjusting to sim racing, but just because they have no seat of pants feel doesnt mean they are going to instead pick up a controller thinking "cant feel the car underneath me so i may as well go with a pad instead. its close enough"



Can I ask how much time you've spent exploring a sim's physics engine on a controller or were you always on a wheel? Particularly a sim like AC or PCARS?

I don't feel it's necessary to get an accessory or peripheral to fully enjoy a game's physics engine. Neither am I training to be a better driver IRL or practicing for an upcoming event.

Oh well, that's just me. I put practicality at the forefront and see a game as 'entertainment' and not a training tool. I have nothing further to add, really.

Happy motoring

Edited by user Tuesday, January 14, 2020 11:47:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Friday, January 17, 2020 9:58:03 AM(UTC)
I have used a pad enough to know understand. Tried pad on pcars2, iracing, r3e. you can play that way but things are severely missing and thats my point. It's not necessary to own peripherels to enjoy a game. But to get the most out of it, it is.

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#37 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 7:24:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fejer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
At the end of the day, it's difficult to choose because man... pCARS2 got so much more content and the replay value is insane. Plus it looks and feels polished on xboxone-x.

If I'd had to choose between Project CARS 2 and Assetto Corsa, I would still choose PCARS2 even though I haven't played Assetto Corsa yet. From what I saw and read, PCARS2 has way more content (cars and tracks), a better presentation (graphics and effects) and a better single-player campaign, things which are quite important to me. Assetto Corsa might have better car simulation physics and a better racing wheel force feedback implementation, but I'm fully satisfied with the implementation in Project CARS.


I would prefer Asetto. I play AC Ultimate on the PS4, and it is amazing. One of my favorite cars is the Ferrari F2004, a V10 Ferrari F1 Car. The best track IMO is Highlands Long in Scotland. I used that track to get the F2004 to its top speed of 194 MPH on the longest straight. PC2 is a good game, with varied tracks and varied cars, and PC2 is the first place I have driven an RTR F150, and it is a good car. Ultimately, I would prefer Asetto for realism and events and PC2 for track weekend events. Hope this helps!
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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2020 10:13:22 PM(UTC)
Thanks for your feedback!

AC has become my undisputed choice as well. There are just too many disconnects in PCARS2 even though it is a good driving game to own.

I too love Highlands and Black Cat County - the track roster all around is really nice and the Ferraris are some of my favorite cars to hotlap in. Ohh... the downshifts on the 812 SF and FXX-K - pure joy!

PCARS2 has variety but the driving experience and realism simply isn't there. I actually like the look of AC more as well, oddly enough.
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