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Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#1251 Posted : Monday, December 2, 2019 7:13:07 AM(UTC)
TL:DR
is there a summarised version ? ;)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1252 Posted : Monday, December 2, 2019 10:48:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
I've been discussing the playlist change in this thread since the week it went live. What could I possibly have been comparing it to other than the release build?

Uh, maybe that you were comparing it to how things were in previous Horizon games and why that was better than Horizon 4?! Because that's how I interpreted your responses given the information that you provided me.

Anyway, the exact timing of when PG made the changes doesn't actually affect my position on anything we talked about. However, it does serve to be the missing piece of information that finally helps me to understand why you've been so hostile toward PG. All. This. Time. And that is what I've been trying to figure out from our conversations. Mystery solved.




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====================

Game Review: ALL TALK, NO ANSWERS

I think I deserve some serious Xbox Achievement points for cracking the code to why the main character was so angry and disgruntled at PG. It was the worst game I've ever played. Insipid story line. Sparse and cryptic dialogue. Circular discussion. Absent character development. Unrewarding plot twist of an ending. Basically a totally uninspiring experience and complete waste of time. In final: I don't recommend this game.

Overall Rating: 0 of 5. Progressive Gameplay Rating: ๐Ÿ˜. . . ๐Ÿ˜’. . . ๐Ÿ˜ !!!

====================
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
can we get back to the actual topic - the replacement of a less-restrictive endgame reward mechanism with a more restrictive one, and how it's a regression from PG's purported design principle of "freedom"?

You nutz?!!! Heck no! I ain't playinโ€™ this game again!!!

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#1253 Posted : Tuesday, December 3, 2019 5:00:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: seanbil Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
I've been discussing the playlist change in this thread since the week it went live. What could I possibly have been comparing it to other than the release build?

Uh, maybe that you were comparing it to how things were in previous Horizon games and why that was better than Horizon 4?! Because that's how I interpreted your responses given the information that you provided me.

Anyway, the exact timing of when PG made the changes doesn't actually affect my position on anything we talked about. However, it does serve to be the missing piece of information that finally helps me to understand why you've been so hostile toward PG. All. This. Time. And that is what I've been trying to figure out from our conversations. Mystery solved.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
====================

Game Review: ALL TALK, NO ANSWERS

I think I deserve some serious Xbox Achievement points for cracking the code to why the main character was so angry and disgruntled at PG. It was the worst game I've ever played. Insipid story line. Sparse and cryptic dialogue. Circular discussion. Absent character development. Unrewarding plot twist of an ending. Basically a totally uninspiring experience and complete waste of time. In final: I don't recommend this game.

Overall Rating: 0 of 5. Progressive Gameplay Rating: ๐Ÿ˜. . . ๐Ÿ˜’. . . ๐Ÿ˜ !!!

====================
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
can we get back to the actual topic - the replacement of a less-restrictive endgame reward mechanism with a more restrictive one, and how it's a regression from PG's purported design principle of "freedom"?

You nutz?!!! Heck no! I ain't playinโ€™ this game again!!!


By any metric, you spent far more of that post talking about me than you did about the argument at hand. I would again suggest getting back on topic, so I'll ask again - in what way is this anything other than a regression from PG's previously stated design principle? We've been talking about this change for 8 months now, and I'm still waiting for a convincing argument for why this is a good thing.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1254 Posted : Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:44:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
By any metric, you spent far more of that post talking about me than you did about the argument at hand. I would again suggest getting back on topic, so I'll ask again - in what way is this anything other than a regression from PG's previously stated design principle? We've been talking about this change for 8 months now, and I'm still waiting for a convincing argument for why this is a good thing.

It was important to determine the manner in which you felt betrayed by PG as a long-time customer, because it's the only way to gauge the degree by which your complaints going forward would be colored by that experience. Therefore, at this point, it's quite evident that trying to convince you to approve of something that you will undoubtedly disapprove of at all costs is going to be nothing more than an exercise in futility. The question that you ask again is one that I've already answered, to my complete satisfaction, in previous responses to you. Of course I could indulge you with another response by simply copying and pasting those previous responses, but I'd rather spare the Forum readers from having to relive a conversation that we've already had several times before.

. . . You're welcome, Forum.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#1255 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2020 4:31:16 PM(UTC)
This feature needs to go. Now.

When the Horizon Playlists first came out, they were branded as a new way to play. That is major baloney. We've been doing the same tasks over and over again ever since they first came out. All this did was turn the game into a mindless grind, jumping through the same hoops each season. This isn't fun. This is just a mindless grind.

Quote:
But no one's forcing you to do it.

You're right. No one is actually forcing me to play these events. No one is holding a gun to my head saying "If you don't do the Trial, I'm going to kill you and your family". But the problem is that the Playlists are still shoved into your face. As much as someone tries to avoid doing the events they don't like, they just can't shake the feeling that they're missing out on something. It doesn't help that everytime you start the game up, you get taken to the Festival Playlists with the percentages and rewards thrust in your face. It's like an annoying pop-up ad on the computer.

Quote:
But it's only one car.

The thing is, games are meant to be completed, and many gamers are, by nature, completionists. Think back to when games didn't have DLC, live services, or any form of post-release content. Didn't you want to complete the game and experience everything? Heck, look at Forza Motorsport 2. You get a secret achievement for owning every car in the game. Keep in mind, that not everyone was here from launch, so for many people, those Trials or Playground Games may be their first opportunity to get whatever car is locked behind those modes. So no, it's not just one car. It's part of a package that people paid for.

So please Playground Games, take it back to the way things were before. Let people pick and choose what events they want to do without feeling incomplete.
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#1256 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2020 9:12:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
This feature needs to go. Now.

When the Horizon Playlists first came out, they were branded as a new way to play. That is major baloney. We've been doing the same tasks over and over again ever since they first came out. All this did was turn the game into a mindless grind, jumping through the same hoops each season. This isn't fun. This is just a mindless grind.

Quote:
But no one's forcing you to do it.

You're right. No one is actually forcing me to play these events. No one is holding a gun to my head saying "If you don't do the Trial, I'm going to kill you and your family". But the problem is that the Playlists are still shoved into your face. As much as someone tries to avoid doing the events they don't like, they just can't shake the feeling that they're missing out on something. It doesn't help that everytime you start the game up, you get taken to the Festival Playlists with the percentages and rewards thrust in your face. It's like an annoying pop-up ad on the computer.

Quote:
But it's only one car.

The thing is, games are meant to be completed, and many gamers are, by nature, completionists. Think back to when games didn't have DLC, live services, or any form of post-release content. Didn't you want to complete the game and experience everything? Heck, look at Forza Motorsport 2. You get a secret achievement for owning every car in the game. Keep in mind, that not everyone was here from launch, so for many people, those Trials or Playground Games may be their first opportunity to get whatever car is locked behind those modes. So no, it's not just one car. It's part of a package that people paid for.

So please Playground Games, take it back to the way things were before. Let people pick and choose what events they want to do without feeling incomplete.


wont happen anytime soon , if ever at all
it's the sign of the times
move on or get left behind
The game is 18 months old..not likely to change until it goes end of life

Edited by user Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:00:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#1257 Posted : Thursday, March 19, 2020 10:00:59 PM(UTC)
[Mod Edit - removed. If you have an issue, report it to a moderator. - MM]

Edited by user Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:41:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1258 Posted : Saturday, March 21, 2020 11:26:58 AM(UTC)
[Mod Edit - removed. If you have an issue, report it to a moderator. - MM]

Edited by user Tuesday, March 24, 2020 7:41:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#1259 Posted : Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:39:42 PM(UTC)
On a more on-topic note, I'm willing to bet my rarest car that a lot of complaints stem from the multiplayer events. If they weren't part of the playlist, we likely would only get a fraction of complaints.

I personally enjoyed the single player championships. They've encouraged me to use cars and explore classes that I wouldn't typically use. It's a nice diversion from sitting in a hypercar all the time.

Multiplayer, however, is a different story. Even before the Playlists, multiplayer events were a cesspool of rammers, wallriders, dive bombers, leeches, and people who just can't drive. As a result, many people avoided multiplayer like the plague. But now when the Playlists rolled in, multiplayer became a significant part of the percentages. I felt it too, the number of bad drivers seemed to increase since you have to do multiplayer to get the rewards. No, you don't have to do everything, but you need to do one multiplayer mode for 80%, and even doing one can feel torturous due to the factors I mentioned earlier. Funnily enough, this takes me back to my schooling days where the teacher gave us the dreaded group project and assigned the partners for us. There was always that one guy who didn't contribute at all and tried to get carried by the others for an A. But in Forza Horizon 4, it seems like all of your teammates are that guy.
Rank: Driver's License
#1260 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 5:16:13 PM(UTC)
I have come across this so many times that I thought I would say something,

Why is their NO way to find out about the restrictions on races, other than it telling me what car class I need to be in. Or manufacturer specific,etc...


It Never tells me what restrictions are in the event regarding front wheel drive only, or rear wheel drive only.

Ive done this many times, building a car up for the seasonal event, only to discover, I had to bring a FWD car or a RWD car............ so I would have to drive back to Home, and do over the car with the correct required setup for the seasonal event.

It would be a lot easier if they could display All the resrictions in the banner, or show us every availible car that meets the requirements, some of the cars I have that meet the requirements dont show up in the restrictions page because they are a higher class car in my garage, but with a simple de tune it meets the requirements.

IDK this is just something thats always bothering me when I play Seasonal events.


as always with love, Peanut Bottle
Rank: Racing Permit
#1261 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:00:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peanut Bottle Go to Quoted Post
It Never tells me what restrictions are in the event regarding front wheel drive only, or rear wheel drive only.


As far as im aware there has never been restrictions on Drivetrain in the playlist. Been playing since May 2019 and have done 14 series with most at 100% only times ive missed out on 100% was when I've been away on holiday.

If there has been a restriction then it would say, as I've never turned up to a championship in a car that I couldn't enter with.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:03:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1262 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:04:33 PM(UTC)
We all seem to figure it out, it also is posted in the forum almost right away in the season thread. Game is two years old and they are unlikely to make major changes and I for one can't wait until they stop having new content. Tired of doing this every week. It's old.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:16:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1263 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 11:40:13 PM(UTC)
In a year of playing, I remember there were 3 championships with drivetrain restrictions, 2x RWD and 1x FWD. But that restriction was stated in championship description, if you however over it on the map.
One other was trial with stock Caterham (that I gladly stayed out).
Everything else is free and since I drive with keyboard, I build all of my cars as AWD and never had any problems regarding that.
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1264 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 11:56:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: El Barto inc Go to Quoted Post
In a year of playing, I remember there were 3 championships with drivetrain restrictions, 2x RWD and 1x FWD. But that restriction was stated in championship description, if you however over it on the map.
One other was trial with stock Caterham (that I gladly stayed out).
Everything else is free and since I drive with keyboard, I build all of my cars as AWD and never had any problems regarding that.


Weird, I can only remember one with AWD cars - I remember this one, because I was trying to use RWD Lexus LFA.
And one RWD with stock Caterhams, if that counts as driveline restriction.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1265 Posted : Tuesday, June 2, 2020 11:59:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DunkelheitVZ Go to Quoted Post
At this moment, I don't log in very often. I log in once per week, do the seasonal stuff and the Forzathon challenge, then I am off again. I don't like the multiplayer in this game, due to freeroam rush, rammers and wallriders. So I appreciate every little bit that makes me want to log in. Doing one daily is certainly not the thing that I am looking for.

I really, really like the coop trials, because most of the time it is an OK-ish race environment, since people want their team to win and it can lead to interesting races with people who can drive well for the top spot.

I think noone really asks for free stuff, but depending on your likes, you will complain if it does not fit your game style. Drifters will complain if it is about racing, online guys complain when they have to do meaningless offline races, offline guys don't want to drift and so on.

So I took all the postings here and I tried to make challenges that might be interesting for everyone.

At first let me say that it is impossible to do THE ONE challenge that makes everyone happy, so I included something for everyone, let us call it FH4 decathlon. I made sure to make use of the most complaints and try to avoid them:
- not time gated
- achievable for everyone
- challenging content

I would use the Forzathon points, reset them and force every saved forzathon point into super wheelspins. This means, if you have 300 points, you get 2 SWs, if you have 301, you get 3, if you have 449, you get 3 and so on. I do this so I can use the points and avoid people just rightclicking the reward, because they have saved 100k Forzathon points.

During one month, you get the main price for 40k Forzathon points

1. once per week: win an offline race against unbeatable AI on track XYZ, 10 laps and rewind off -> 1k Forzathon points per race type (street race, road race, dirt race and offroad) = 4K total per event = 16k total
2. once per week: Drift challenge: get points XXXXXX in the following 3 drift tracks -> 1k FP = 4k total
3. There are 4 Forzathon challenges (the 4 stages with one car thingie) per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4k FP
4. Seasonal trials: There are 4 seasonal trials per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
5. seasonal team based PG games once per week: each win gives you 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
6. monthly rivals: 5k FP points if you manage to be in top 20%, 2500 if you manage to reach top 50%
7. qualify for unranked adventure once per month (or 10 races): 5k FP
8. one drag race per week: 1k FP if you manage top 20% or 500 FP if you manage top 50%= 4k FP max
9. Four championship events on Fortune Island per week against Expert AI, each event gives 250 FP = 4k total
10. Four seasonal challenges (jump, speed zone, high speed) per week, each 250 FP = 4k total
11. each daily challenge gives you 100 FP and if you manage to do all 7 you get 300 extra points for a total of 1k per week = 4K FP total

This gives you a total of 58k FP points. So you have some wiggling room and can leave out events/challenges that you dislike or simply cannot do due to skill. If you do not manage to reach 40k FP via the events, you can grind the Forzathon online events.

Obviously I have not really thought much about the point system, it might need some balancing, but an event like this would not force you into stuff that you dislike, you can leave one week out (vacation/work stuff) and still get it, it would populate the servers, it is a lot to do and if you do everything, you have even more more wiggling room the next month. So you can get a lot of points if you plan a vacation e.g. And the really great thing about this system is that you even include points for lesser skilled guys. So for example Point 1: if you win vs pro, you get half the points and a quarter if you win vs expert.
Everyone could play whatever they want and collect huge amount of points in areas they excel in.

I think it needs more thought, but it would be fair for everyone. Even absolute casual gamers with low game time and low skill would be able to snag a reward once in a while, but not all of them.

What do you think?

Splendid idea, do copy and past this into the wishlist feature please, thank you. Finally a method to utilise Forzathon points effectively. Need some time to rethink about the balancing part.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1266 Posted : Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:23:57 AM(UTC)
@ziperrPL
and that recent AWD offroad, yes. I forgot about that one, as already stated, all of my cars are AWD.
But even that one had stated restriction on championship description.

For those RWD I remember driving S1 Viper and S2 Porsche and something small as FWD Honda or Reanault.
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1267 Posted : Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:48:43 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: El Barto inc Go to Quoted Post
@ziperrPL
and that recent AWD offroad, yes. I forgot about that one, as already stated, all of my cars are AWD.
But even that one had stated restriction on championship description.

For those RWD I remember driving S1 Viper and S2 Porsche and something small as FWD Honda or Reanault.

Not offroad. It was S1 road event. One of tracks was Broadway circuit. I did use for instance Falcon FE, Lotus Esprit. and Supra.
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