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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:04:22 AM(UTC)
Still not sold on HDR. Apart from making the image really bright (or too dark) and oversaturated with colors that you almost never see in real life, why would I want to upgrade to an HDR screen? They are expensive and HDR screens that are not even 10bits with at least 600 nits or higher are no good, IMO.

I don't care about 4K as the upscaled games on my 1080p TV look fantastic. Why then, would I want to get an HDR TV for Forza 7 or other racing games, really? Will it make the brake lights look RED in all race conditions? Will it have the correct glow and halo in those reds?

Seems to me like HDR is something they desperately want to sell through TVs, game consoles and games - even though there are already SDR 8-bit and 10-bit screens out there that are doing an exceptionally good job of reproducing colors in movies and games. Colors looked fine to me before HDR was even a thing.

If a TV also produces accurate colors, good blacks, greys and whites, then why HDR? It's kind of like a dynamic contrast enhancement of sorts, isn't it?

Would like to hear your honest opinion on this being an HDR screen owner, SDR screen owner or someone who recently went from a really good SDR screen to an HDR one.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 3, 2019 3:06:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#2 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:05:51 AM(UTC)
Well i had a samsung HDR 40" TV. I then ordered a 55" ambilight HDR TV from amazon. The serial numbers for that tv were the same as the brand new 65" TV from amazon so they delivered me over 1k worth of TV for £429. They said it was their mistake and not to worry about it as the kids have destroyed the packaging.
So i got a 65" TV for the price of last years model 55",and i'm happy. Currently playing Far Cry New Dawn and when the sun comes over the mountains it's astounding. As for Forza if you get a good panel like mine the difference is night and day, almost literally! The brightness of the sun while still being able to make out cockpit details is what sells it for me.
You can have the sun glaring through the windscreen and still make out the details on your steering wheel or dashboard. It makes a lot of difference when you play in cockpit mode as it feels more real somehow. I mean when your screen is 64" everything seems more real.
I play No Mans Sky in VR and that is amazing but it's almost the same on my 65" screen minus the movement.
I mean if we could have Forza in VR that would top everything but for now i'll make do with a massive TV with HDR in 4K and it does look Good!
The contrast is a big thing but the subtle differences in colours also play into it. It makes everything just feel more close to real life if you get a good panel.
I also play Forza on a superwide on my PC when the store isn't losing all my permissions for like the 68th time. The difference between the superwide and the 4K is marked. My superwide i got mainly for video and phot editing but it's good for games too, but it's nothing compared to the majesty of my 4K 65" HDR TV. It really does shine!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 6:25:57 AM(UTC)
"You can have the sun glaring through the windscreen and still make out the details on your steering wheel or dashboard. It makes a lot of difference when you play in cockpit mode as it feels more real somehow"

I can see all the cockpit details in pristine clarity while sun glare is coming through in cockpit cam. But how's that possible? I'm on a 10-year old 40" SDR screen! LOL

"The contrast is a big thing but the subtle differences in colours also play into it. It makes everything just feel more close to real life if you get a good panel."

Technically, can't you see the same color richness and depth in a well-calibrated SDR 8-bit or 10-bit panel?

"As for Forza if you get a good panel like mine the difference is night and day, almost literally! The brightness of the sun while still being able to make out cockpit details is what sells it for me."

I get where that's coming from - my only complaint with Forza on an SDR screen is that the tunnels (Dubai and Rio only) around certain times of day only appear quite dark but nothing game breaking, I can still take turns at high speeds without bumping into the walls. And of course, the brake lights not having a reasonable amount of glow/illumination or halo effect at night. Or the bright yellow glowing tail lights during daytime races when you brake. That's the only thing that annoys me but I'm not sure if HDR can fix that.

Anyway, I value your input - but still not sold on the HDR thing.

"So i got a 65" TV for the price of last years model 55",and i'm happy"

If lucky had a name, it would be "BBTD MitchyK7' !
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:59:02 AM(UTC)
Depending on what you consider expensive, I'd be willing to bet you could get a nice 55"ish HDR set up for between $700 and $1k. Which is considerably less a couple years ago. I spent more on my set up at the time but i made the mistake of buying a lesser quality 4K HDR tv first. Then I upgraded after about a year. I will say the Forza games do look nice on a HDR TV. Possible to duplicate it on a properly calibrated SDR TV? I don't know. I doubt it. I dont think it would have the ability to get as dark or as bright as needed. And that is where I notice the biggest difference. Night racing and really bright dynamic situations. Both are pretty awesome. Plus there are a gang of other games that feature One X enhanced 4k HDR gaming. Honestly either way you have a good looking game.
Edited to add: after reading your first post again, it seems like you already have your mind made up and are mostly looking to argue why you won't buy an HDR tv. If that is the case disregard what I wrote above.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 3, 2019 1:13:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 1:08:12 PM(UTC)
I would wait till the next gen consoles release before getting anything yet. As of now I'm assuming they'll be capable of running some games at 4k 120fps, if that's the case you'll need a tv that supports hdmi 2.1, as of now there aren't many and they're all top end tvs. In a couple of years 2.1 will be the standard so you wont have to spend crazy money on a top of the line model.

P.s. There is a substantial difference between 4k hdr and 1080p. Once you're used to playing that way and switch back to 1080p it really does seem like 2 different games.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 8:29:50 PM(UTC)
I'm still using a 1080p TV with my XB1X and I have no complaints at all. Do we really need all these extra pixels is the question. If you can stand about 20 feet away from your TV and get a clear image, then what's the point of higher resultion screens? I'll get a new HD tv enentually when they get really cheap in the coming years. For now 1080p works great with all the graphic enhancements that comes with XB1X in support of 1080p.
" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: C-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 11:41:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: chuteboxehero1 Go to Quoted Post
Depending on what you consider expensive, I'd be willing to bet you could get a nice 55"ish HDR set up for between $700 and $1k. Which is considerably less a couple years ago. I spent more on my set up at the time but i made the mistake of buying a lesser quality 4K HDR tv first. Then I upgraded after about a year. I will say the Forza games do look nice on a HDR TV. Possible to duplicate it on a properly calibrated SDR TV? I don't know. I doubt it. I dont think it would have the ability to get as dark or as bright as needed. And that is where I notice the biggest difference. Night racing and really bright dynamic situations. Both are pretty awesome. Plus there are a gang of other games that feature One X enhanced 4k HDR gaming. Honestly either way you have a good looking game.
Edited to add: after reading your first post again, it seems like you already have your mind made up and are mostly looking to argue why you won't buy an HDR tv. If that is the case disregard what I wrote above.


Thanks for your thoughts. I'm already getting great night racing effects and bright dynamic situations because I've gone to great lengths to calibrate my TV properly. Plus the fact that it supports RGB Full is always nice. I would say though $700 to $1000 for a new TV is a lot. I just blew away a little over $400 on a One-X recently, so hard to justify spending that much money on a TV.

Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
I would wait till the next gen consoles release before getting anything yet. As of now I'm assuming they'll be capable of running some games at 4k 120fps, if that's the case you'll need a tv that supports hdmi 2.1, as of now there aren't many and they're all top end tvs. In a couple of years 2.1 will be the standard so you wont have to spend crazy money on a top of the line model.

P.s. There is a substantial difference between 4k hdr and 1080p. Once you're used to playing that way and switch back to 1080p it really does seem like 2 different games.


I have seen the differences - 4K does look very nice, its flawless, really. But many X-enhanced games look brilliant on a 1080p screen (IMO) like FM7, Halo 5, GOW4, FH4, SoTR, etc. but PCARS2 probably not so much.

That's really good advice I'd say - to wait and see what kind of TVs are available after the Scarletts release. Because honestly if I'm going to upgrade then I want all the bells and whistles:

* 120Hz minimum
* 4K or higher
* 10-bit HDR+ and Dolby Vision support
* Freesync 2
* Response time at 2ms
* 55" screen minimum
* Dedicated local dimming
* HDMI 2.1
* 1000 nits or higher brightness

You know... the works!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 2:13:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SimRacerQ Go to Quoted Post
I'm still using a 1080p TV with my XB1X and I have no complaints at all. Do we really need all these extra pixels is the question. If you can stand about 20 feet away from your TV and get a clear image, then what's the point of higher resultion screens? I'll get a new HD tv enentually when they get really cheap in the coming years. For now 1080p works great with all the graphic enhancements that comes with XB1X in support of 1080p.


Did you really need to buy the X if you don't care about these things? The largest graphical enhancement the X provides is 4k resolution. Pcars 2 is the only game that I've played that fps was hugely affected by the X's power. It's really not a question if 1080p looks good or not the fact remains that 4k looks better. Then there's also the fact that newer tvs are better in almost every way. I have a Samsung F8000 which imo was one of the best 1080p tvs ever made, id say it actually displays 1080p content better than my 4k tvs, but my newer tvs have superior input lag, latency, color gamut, brightness etc. and that's why that tv has been demoted in my house to my guest room.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 3:25:50 PM(UTC)
I own a LG C8 TV ( easily one of the best pictures I've ever seen), and a Samsung QLED 1440p monitor ( not too shabby either, and it's the only 1440p HDR display with freesync that I'm aware of). Both offer HDR. HDR doesn't oversaturate the picture. What it does is smooth the graphics and visuals to appear more natural. I HATE color banding with a passion and HDR removes like 95% of it. The level of immersion increases 10 fold with a properly calibrated HDR display. I definitely notice a huge difference between full RGB and HDR. Full RGB is considerably more saturated and unnatural than either of my HDR displays. I'm here to tell you that you're missing out in a big way. Pull the trigger on a solid HDR display. You won't be sorry.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 8:52:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SimRacerQ Go to Quoted Post
I'm still using a 1080p TV with my XB1X and I have no complaints at all. Do we really need all these extra pixels is the question. If you can stand about 20 feet away from your TV and get a clear image, then what's the point of higher resultion screens? I'll get a new HD tv enentually when they get really cheap in the coming years. For now 1080p works great with all the graphic enhancements that comes with XB1X in support of 1080p.


Did you really need to buy the X if you don't care about these things? The largest graphical enhancement the X provides is 4k resolution. Pcars 2 is the only game that I've played that fps was hugely affected by the X's power. It's really not a question if 1080p looks good or not the fact remains that 4k looks better. Then there's also the fact that newer tvs are better in almost every way. I have a Samsung F8000 which imo was one of the best 1080p tvs ever made, id say it actually displays 1080p content better than my 4k tvs, but my newer tvs have superior input lag, latency, color gamut, brightness etc. and that's why that tv has been demoted in my house to my guest room.


I think you somewhat missed the point he was trying to hit home - that standing at a distance in particular (and also if your screen isn't that large I might add), you're not going to notice a major difference if things already look sharp and pristine on your 1080p screen.

On the other hand, if your 1080p screen generally doesn't have a good engine at its core, then you may notice pixel shimmering and jaggies more than usual. With that said, majority of people I know still haven't upgraded because they're more than happy with the resolution, color reproduction and black levels on their TVs.

It comes down to calibration too I think - a badly calibrated screen is always an excuse to upgrade to better technology.

Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
I own a LG C8 TV ( easily one of the best pictures I've ever seen), and a Samsung QLED 1440p monitor ( not too shabby either, and it's the only 1440p HDR display with freesync that I'm aware of). Both offer HDR. HDR doesn't oversaturate the picture. What it does is smooth the graphics and visuals to appear more natural. I HATE color banding with a passion and HDR removes like 95% of it. The level of immersion increases 10 fold with a properly calibrated HDR display. I definitely notice a huge difference between full RGB and HDR. Full RGB is considerably more saturated and unnatural than either of my HDR displays. I'm here to tell you that you're missing out in a big way. Pull the trigger on a solid HDR display. You won't be sorry.


Yes, I have read the same. However, I don't have banding in my games to begin with and neither do the colors look oversaturated. It's all down to calibration.

Thanks for your thoughts though, but probably won't retire a perfectly good TV just yet.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 4, 2019 8:54:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 1:01:08 AM(UTC)
The only app I've seen color banding in is Steam client.
Rank: Racing Permit
#12 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 9:24:12 AM(UTC)
Worth it if you have a good AVR and home audio system. Probably not if strictly just for a monitor for Forza.
Good HDR looks incredible and makes a bigger difference than 4K does.
Rank: Driver's License
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 10:06:33 AM(UTC)
Wait for 8K TV price to drop.

8K TV + 8K Xbox Scarlett + Forza 8 in 8K = beautiful.

I have already started saving...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 2:17:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post


I think you somewhat missed the point he was trying to hit home - that standing at a distance in particular (and also if your screen isn't that large I might add), you're not going to notice a major difference if things already look sharp and pristine on your 1080p screen.

On the other hand, if your 1080p screen generally doesn't have a good engine at its core, then you may notice pixel shimmering and jaggies more than usual. With that said, majority of people I know still haven't upgraded because they're more than happy with the resolution, color reproduction and black levels on their TVs.

It comes down to calibration too I think - a badly calibrated screen is always an excuse to upgrade to better technology.


I don't think I missed any point. If someone is satisfied with the performance of their tv or monitor that's fine, but even a cheap 4k tv would enhance the graphics in any game that supports 4k over a top of the line 1080p tv. A mid to upper tier 4k tv with hdr would only add another layer of improvement on top of that. This seems to be more of a monetary decision more than a preference and that's understandable. There's no denying the fact that 4k is superior to 1080p especially in a game like forza 7 because regardless of resolution its locked at 60.

Like I said above though, if you haven't gotten one yet i would wait till more info is available on the next gen consoles. By that time the features/specs of high end 4k tvs will be more prevalent at more mainstream prices. It really is one of those things that you cant go back after playing it that way.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Saturday, September 7, 2019 3:00:46 PM(UTC)
I have a 4k hdr tv and an old 1080p tv. Sometimes i play on both.. And i dont see the big deal at all.

I also cant wrap my head around hdr at all or what the point of it is. (Ive tried several brands of different prices)

When i mess with the hdr settings to me it just looks brighter or darker or more vivid. 😒

I just think its a sales gimmick. Just Like curved tvs make you feel "immersed" 🙄..

I could even see someone arguing that 4k is a gimmick tho i can see the difference its not anything special. I dont feel im missing out on anything when i play on my old non 4k/hdr tv.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 10:43:14 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Racer009 Go to Quoted Post
I have a 4k hdr tv and an old 1080p tv. Sometimes i play on both.. And i dont see the big deal at all.

I also cant wrap my head around hdr at all or what the point of it is. (Ive tried several brands of different prices)

When i mess with the hdr settings to me it just looks brighter or darker or more vivid. 😒

I just think its a sales gimmick. Just Like curved tvs make you feel "immersed" 🙄..

I could even see someone arguing that 4k is a gimmick tho i can see the difference its not anything special. I dont feel im missing out on anything when i play on my old non 4k/hdr tv.


Thanks for your honest feedback! *thumbs up*

My sentiments pretty much - I just don't think it justifies spending all that extra cash when you have a well-calibrated 1080p non-HDR screen that does the job just fine.

Will wait to see what 8K and all the other new emerging techs like oled or qled might mean for games. But with my One-X for now, the 1080p screen more than suffices.

I agree too BTW - it feels like a gimmick more than anything else - making the image overly bright or overly dark while making the colors pop as if you've set your TV to those Vivid "showroom" settings. No one will honestly tell you this, like it is. A TV that is set up properly with the console and calibrated the right way should already be showing colors, blacks and whites accurately.

There were 8, 10 and 12 bit panels already in existence before HDR came around and they all did (still do) a fantastic job of color reproduction, contrast ratio, all that stuff. I feel HDR is kind of like the Motion Plus technology Sony introduced way back - it sold more TVs and gaming consoles, didn't it?

I'm not sure what brand 1080p TV you're using but mine's a Bravia - I think Sony makes some of the best future-proof HDTVs.

Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post


I think you somewhat missed the point he was trying to hit home - that standing at a distance in particular (and also if your screen isn't that large I might add), you're not going to notice a major difference if things already look sharp and pristine on your 1080p screen.

On the other hand, if your 1080p screen generally doesn't have a good engine at its core, then you may notice pixel shimmering and jaggies more than usual. With that said, majority of people I know still haven't upgraded because they're more than happy with the resolution, color reproduction and black levels on their TVs.

It comes down to calibration too I think - a badly calibrated screen is always an excuse to upgrade to better technology.


I don't think I missed any point. If someone is satisfied with the performance of their tv or monitor that's fine, but even a cheap 4k tv would enhance the graphics in any game that supports 4k over a top of the line 1080p tv; 4K does look good I admit but the purchase (for me at least) is not justified as 1080p (to me) already looks very sharp and clean, even if I'm gaming 6 feet away from my screen. Plus, I think with sizes approaching 49", 55" or above - that's where one might appreciate 4K, especially sitting close to the screen.



Right - however, the difference between 1080p and 4K isn't by a very wide margin, especially if you're talking sizes around 40" and sitting 10-12 feet away from the screen most of the time. Yeap, I'm a lazy ape when it comes to gaming and prefer to sprawl out on the bed.

Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
I own a LG C8 TV ( easily one of the best pictures I've ever seen), and a Samsung QLED 1440p monitor ( not too shabby either, and it's the only 1440p HDR display with freesync that I'm aware of). Both offer HDR. HDR doesn't oversaturate the picture. What it does is smooth the graphics and visuals to appear more natural. I HATE color banding with a passion and HDR removes like 95% of it. The level of immersion increases 10 fold with a properly calibrated HDR display. I definitely notice a huge difference between full RGB and HDR. Full RGB is considerably more saturated and unnatural than either of my HDR displays. I'm here to tell you that you're missing out in a big way. Pull the trigger on a solid HDR display. You won't be sorry.


I'm using PC RGB on my TV and it never looks oversaturated - but in fact, makes the picture look very natural and realistic. Slightly brighter whites and darker blacks too. With Standard, my picture gets washed out and I can see banding in a number of games.

However, with the HDR screens that I have seen up close, everything just seems overwhelmingly bright and just way too dark - I don't think the real world looks like this to the human eye!

Edited by user Sunday, September 8, 2019 10:56:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 10:46:30 PM(UTC)
Double post - sorry.

Edited by user Sunday, September 8, 2019 10:48:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#18 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 12:55:26 PM(UTC)
I'm playing on Dell 4k and I'm happy. I'd say upgrading your screen for FM (or any other game) is not a waste.
Rank: Driver's License
#19 Posted : Tuesday, September 17, 2019 3:13:22 AM(UTC)
The only tangible advantage I found with 4k over 1080p is the ability to go bigger in screen size but not have to sit further away - that's it really. HDR, nice, but definitely not groundbreaking. And yes, a well calibrated SDR will look great, but if doesn't have the same range as HDR so a well calibrated HDR will look better - but its marginal in my opinion. I have 2 large screen Panasonics, 4k HDR in the living room, 1080p SDR in the kids room. And honestly, I would be happy to play on either, great pictures on both - the 4K HDR was only bought as that is all they sell now.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 1:05:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TinPeach Go to Quoted Post
The only tangible advantage I found with 4k over 1080p is the ability to go bigger in screen size but not have to sit further away - that's it really. HDR, nice, but definitely not groundbreaking. And yes, a well calibrated SDR will look great, but if doesn't have the same range as HDR so a well calibrated HDR will look better - but its marginal in my opinion. I have 2 large screen Panasonics, 4k HDR in the living room, 1080p SDR in the kids room. And honestly, I would be happy to play on either, great pictures on both - the 4K HDR was only bought as that is all they sell now.


Thanks for the honest feedback. I thought as much.

I think they are overselling this whole HDR thing like they were selling all those enhancements at the time: dynamic contrast, true color/real color, motion flow, motion smoothening etc.

My post was focused only on HDR though yet people started talking about resolution. That's a non-concern as 1080p to me looks picture perfect, whether sitting 13 feet away or 6 feet away.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 1:02:20 PM(UTC)
You would get the bonus of HDR in 4K Blu Ray. HDR is what really makes them superior to standard blu ray. The resolution difference isn't that noticeable. Streaming cannot match the bit rate of a disc still plus they all come with digital copies these days.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 18, 2019 1:04:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:33:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
You would get the bonus of HDR in 4K Blu Ray. HDR is what really makes them superior to standard blu ray. The resolution difference isn't that noticeable. Streaming cannot match the bit rate of a disc still plus they all come with digital copies these days.


I don't watch any blurays or streamed content at all.

Mostly use my console for gaming and occasionally mucking about on YouTube, that's it.

I still don't see why people would want to look at really dark, and at the same time really bright and oversaturated graphics, when SDR does a perfectly fine job of producing realistic, life-like and *natural looking* colors.

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