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Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 9:19:01 AM(UTC)
Horizon 4 dirt looks like normal dirt but works like tarmac to me. Tarmac = no sliding for most corners for best time. Dirt = sliding for most corners for best time. But Horizon looks like tarmac all the time. Is it problem with my measuring? I mostly drive on tarmac so I could be wrong. Or some special dirt exists? Thanks for the input.
Rank: Driver's License
#2 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 9:42:14 AM(UTC)
In the older games, dirt trail was just reskined asphalt, in FH4 driving over dirt is more accurate.

What car you drive? I imagine it's a rally vehicle
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 9:51:13 AM(UTC)
I drive everything and the problem is I use tarmac style everywhere. It doesn't feel like rally even if it looks like it.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#4 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 10:04:00 AM(UTC)
Definitely fake. It's a video game. By definition, everything in it is fake.

Seriously, though. Maybe do a couple test runs in the same car with the same tune, check your telemetry, and see if there's any difference between driving on asphalt vs gravel.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 10:31:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
I drive everything and the problem is I use tarmac style everywhere. It doesn't feel like rally even if it looks like it.


Powersliding on gravel is IMO bit weird on FH4. I'm way too lazy to this but I just did quite a few miles with stock Porsche 917 LH on custom Classic Endurance track, tarmac. It was surprisingly classic "Porsche" in a sense that on some curves fastest way around and to get the best is giving it more gas. It just not suitable for gravel at all, but if you could find something similar suitable for gravel, that might be one thing to help getting better picture of physics in game and its limits.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#6 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:52:18 AM(UTC)
I personally believe that this surface was made like asphalt. Let me make a comparison, let’s say the grip force numbers in the games code are 1.0, and dirt is 0.5 and bumpier. The bumpier the surface the harder it also is to control due to the lack of tires keeping in contact with the dirt (unless you have rally suspension). I wouldn’t say it’s pained asphalt, but more made in a similar way with some cool effects.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 7:11:23 AM(UTC)
Really depends on the car you choose. Some RWDs and especially old cars are nightmare to drive off tarmac.

Btw, if you want slippery dirt, just wait for rain.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 9:49:39 AM(UTC)
Something I remembered.

Using handbrake can lead to weird situations in Cross Country at least, when driving AWD or FWD and gain forward momentum after the turn but after releasing handbrake car starts drifting sideways again. It's IMO bit strange on gravel too.

Certain real rally technics like counter momentum turn (not sure about exact term in English) is very difficult to pull and I have seen experienced players losing a lot of speed while attempting it, even if attempt has looked technically correct. There is alternative, but for my experience that is more reliable on tarmac!

So I came to think about tarmac and dirt Drift Zones and perhaps there were tradeoffs needed to be made with physics model that hamper Dirt and CC a bit. Other explanation might perhaps lie in perspective to route and timing related things, but I don't know easy way to confirm that. Myself, I use first person view except in Team Games.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 4, 2019 12:17:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#9 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 4:51:02 AM(UTC)
i personally luv the dirt/gravel parking lot bit, opposite (west) of Bamburgh Castle entrance, wish it was a bigger playground for me... i just luv the sound of the tyres going sideways through the gravel.
as for dirt being real or fake, well.., does u'r normal asphalt road car behave the same on dirt roads? why do we have rally tyres & suspension as upgrade options? do u choose said cars for dirt races?
now as for races.., i would've preferred it, if we didn't treat (multiplayer) dirt races the same as we do asphalt roads.., dirt turns/corners should be slid around & not be taken neatly, but as we see online, that is not the case (besides the people that lose control, lol) ...so these "dirt races" don't give me a "rally" feel (unless i play solo, yay)
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 11:18:27 AM(UTC)
Horizon 4 has my favorite dirt physics of any game. Tires lose too much grip at about 20+ slipangle, though, so a mild drift is your fastest line.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#11 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 2:09:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: dabre101 Go to Quoted Post

now as for races.., i would've preferred it, if we didn't treat (multiplayer) dirt races the same as we do asphalt roads.., dirt turns/corners should be slid around & not be taken neatly, but as we see online, that is not the case (besides the people that lose control, lol) ...so these "dirt races" don't give me a "rally" feel (unless i play solo, yay)

That's exactly the problem. Dirt physics looks like tarmac physics. It makes sense because Forza is tarmac based and you probably won't do new physics for other parts. I don't know but it looks like the case.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#12 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 2:12:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post

Certain real rally technics like counter momentum turn (not sure about exact term in English) is very difficult to pull and I have seen experienced players losing a lot of speed while attempting it, even if attempt has looked technically correct. There is alternative, but for my experience that is more reliable on tarmac!

Exactly, that's the problem I am looking for.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 2:13:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
Horizon 4 has my favorite dirt physics of any game. Tires lose too much grip at about 20+ slipangle, though, so a mild drift is your fastest line.

What are the other games? :o

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Thursday, September 5, 2019 10:20:14 PM(UTC)
RBR, LFS. I haven't tried the old Colin McRae games, or physics mods in RBR.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 3:04:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
RBR, LFS. I haven't tried the old Colin McRae games, or physics mods in RBR.

So you see exactly what I mean, right? RBR was always OK. Dirt rally now is fine too. Or do you think RBR dirt is similar to Horizon dirt?

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 5:44:27 AM(UTC)
I recall RBR feels icy, like LFS. Horizon has more sliding resistance. I don't like Dirt Rally.
Rank: Racing Permit
#17 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 8:22:44 AM(UTC)
Does it really matter?

It's about doing your best, not about what the surface level looks like.

I have fun either way :)
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 8:40:23 AM(UTC)
It's mostly about research, not about fun with the game.

Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
I recall RBR feels icy, like LFS. Horizon has more sliding resistance. I don't like Dirt Rally.

That's the problem. RBR has dirt grip and Horizon tarmac grip. Dirt rally is great, why don't you like it?

Originally Posted by: wwwREXwww Go to Quoted Post
Does it really matter?

It's about doing your best, not about what the surface level looks like.

I have fun either way :)

Yeah, if you have tarmac everywhere, it's good to know because your driving is completely different.

Rank: Racing Permit
#19 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 8:49:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
It's mostly about research, not about fun with the game.

Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
I recall RBR feels icy, like LFS. Horizon has more sliding resistance. I don't like Dirt Rally.

That's the problem. RBR has dirt grip and Horizon tarmac grip. Dirt rally is great, why don't you like it?

Originally Posted by: wwwREXwww Go to Quoted Post
Does it really matter?

It's about doing your best, not about what the surface level looks like.

I have fun either way :)

Yeah, if you have tarmac everywhere, it's good to know because your driving is completely different.



People should know what the track is like these days.

Games been out for how long now..................

Couple of Dirt shouldn't be dirt i agree, doesn't change how or what car i'll race.

I think people get frustrated becuase they haven't availed themselves to what the track layout is about and get slighty annoyed they picked the wrong car.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 8:57:39 AM(UTC)
It looks like tarmac everywhere! :D It's normal tarmac and only difference is strength of the grip. That's how it looks like to me and I need to know if anybody has different opinion about it and other things. Normal research.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 9:19:20 AM(UTC)
Horizon 4 Dirt is more different from tarmac than total grip. Manteo Max (IIRC) said it is, and I feel it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 9:26:31 AM(UTC)
So why the tarmac driving is the fastest way everywhere? And what is probably different?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 9:27:56 AM(UTC)
And current remix is a good example.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Friday, September 6, 2019 11:43:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
It looks like tarmac everywhere! :D It's normal tarmac and only difference is strength of the grip. That's how it looks like to me and I need to know if anybody has different opinion about it and other things. Normal research.


Something that came to my mind, you might perhaps use for testing is trying different suspension settings, stock, stiff soft and see what kind of differences it makes. I can't talk much about multiplayers but in addition to curves you might try dirt uphill sections. When I was doing dirt race challenges yesterday for #weekly Forzathon challenges and tested different routes to post as tips, I came to think once again how cars sometimes struggle uphill on dirt, not because of direct lack of power, or constant wheelspin, but it feels like rear of the car was bouncing too much. It's important to note that I used stock '75 Porsche 911 Carrera, with AWD's effect isn't the same. Route with that uphill section is Lakehurst trail if my memory serves me right.

Something you may want to try too, just for curiosity, is testing different suspension types. Leaf suspension of older cars to springs and rather original solution that was used IIRC in both, old Volkswagens and Porsches.

Dirt definitely is different to tarmac, question IMO is rather what sort of things attribute to differences and how it compares to other games and real world. I haven't played Rally games for a really long time but Colin McRae Rally was really good, didn't liked the tint in first person view in CMR 2.0 but the best games IMO were Richard Burns Rally and Rally Trophy. Compared to those games FH4 dirt physics feels rather sticky.

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