Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#79
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Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:15:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow  Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777  Originally Posted by: opencamswrx  Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow  Originally Posted by: AP Colin Girth  Learn PCARS2 (on a wheel or pad) and you can become a much better driver IRL. Learn on Forza and try to drive like that in real life - you're either looking at an expensive trip to the hospital or huge insurance premiums - or both!
I can share my pad settings for your PCARS2 lovers if you like, just PM me. I've got the handling down to something very similar to how pad control is on Forza.
Sim racing has been my main hobby for about 25 years now. That's more than plenty and less than some others, but my point is that I have seen a hell of a lot of games come and go (including PC2, which I bought on day 1). For the most part, getting really good at any particular game is about learning how to bend yourself to what that particular title demands of its users. Grand Prix Legends was all about throttle control, for example. I don't know if any sim has ever made me a better real life driver, but one sim stands above the rest with respect to definitely making me a better sim racer: Assetto Corsa Competizione.
One of the measures of the player is Pace, but by always (offline or online) grading the player on things like Car Control, Consistency, Safety, Trust, Race Craft, and Track Competence, Kunos rounded out what is important for a sim racer to be good at. The game constantly is updating you on these ratings, and it makes you badly want to improve in all of these areas, as opposed to how success is measured in so many games, where a quick jaunt to the leaderboard shows a guy's best times, but not the 30 disastrous laps which came before. I started on the game, and was running really good times right away (pace in the high 80s, consistency in the mid-90s) and wasn't crashing, but was aghast when I saw my car control (was around 50).
50!? What the hell? I'm not crashing!
Then I looked at the messages the game provides, and really saw it; sectors marked in orange or red, indicating that I was pushing the car WAY too much. My tires were completely shot in no time at all. The game is constantly feeding you this information: you exceeded optimal grip on this corner, you used too much steering angle on that one, etc. I took in that messaging, and altered things, reducing my over-driving as much I could, and the result was all-around improvement: Car Control at 96 now, with most other ratings in that general vicinity, and even got my Driver Rating in the highest tier, just short of 9500.
I've never played a game which was better at making me a better racer than ACC, and I think it may end up on my Mount Rushmore of sims when all is said and done.
Funny you say this, in my iracing team discord someone asked about buying acc the other day when it was on sale on steam. More than half the team said on sale for $15 the game isnt even worth it. Most said they wouldn't pay over 5 for it. I doubt it for the reasons you mentioned and more attributed to the fact that they said a year after release game is so blatantly unfinished its ridiculous. Personally haven't played the game, but I will heed their advice and stray away and continue to run GT cars on iracing. Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath  I misjudged Project Cars 2. The tire model is dynamic. The carcass and contact patch are simulated separately. The amount of variables and layers of lateral force delineation are why they feel floaty in left-right transition. They have too much combined accel/turn grip, and braking/turn grip, and too high usable slipangles, making them feel fast, but difficult to consistently, fully exploit. I definitely don't like how they drift. Will continue playing with them in racing a bit.. The spring rates are indicated within the suspension geometry. I highly recommend if you haven't, use this sheet. I think the creator was involved with the development? Or was able to find the motion ratio multipliers in the game files. http://forum.projectcars...ension-Calculator-v0-996(b) This is my major issue with pcars. The cars all seem to have infinite grip. I have to make a solid effort to spin a car. The game begs to be overdriven and its the only way to get fast lap times. Going from Iracing to this is like being in 2 seperate worlds (essentially you are) the way the cars need to be driven. Iracing smoothness is king, overdriving is asking to end your race early or at the minimum be very slow. Pcars if you arent being aggressive everywhere you will be way off pace. I think part of this comes from them trying to have a good controller intergration. Not true at all - I can spin them on command and the countersteering, sliding, breaking grip, gaining grip, weight transfer, all that - is much more nuanced and realistic in PCARS2. I can easily slide cars, especially the high powered ones. I;m not using any assists whatsoever and using a pad. The standard tunes for the cars, especially road cars are dreadful. The cars have too much grip and are very skittish and bouncy. Play around with the tunes and tune them to break traction more easily. It;s the most satisfying feeling in the world catching drifts in PCARS2. I actually disagree with both of you to an extent. iRacing is by far a more realistic simulator than Project Cars 2 in, I would say, almost every aspect. The problem with iRacing is it's below par tire model. The game is nicknamed iceRacing for a reason and that's because you can lose the rear end with lift off oversteer at 25 MPH in very grippy cars like Mazda MX5 Cups. Project Cars has always suffered with problems with catching slides. The physics are naturally snappy and twitchy, particularly in the original game. I'd still rank Assetto Corsa a much more natural SIM than Project Cars 2 and from what I've heard though never driven, Assetto Corsa Cmpetitzione has much better GT cars than iRacing. All 4 are terrific games and very enjoyable in their own aspects. When was the last time you ventured to that side of sim racing. Hasnt been referred to as ice racing in like 5 years. The "below par" tyre model is a work in progress for sure, but they are also doing their own version of a tyre unlike everyone else who is either using the empirical approach or a table. Iracings trying to use a live tyre. Also, ACC currently only uses 1 point for their wheel physics as they recently announced they are going to go to a 5 point.... which is what pretty much everyone else already uses in one form or another. Heck Rfactor uses a mesh system. https://youtu.be/5H2zGGUdfrA So while you may not like the tyre model, and i will proabably agree with some things, like currently cold tyres = more grip is silly to me, they are constantly evolving and pretty far ahead of some others. I am aware this sounds fanboyish, but were on a forza forum and talking poor tyre models.... Every sim has its flaws including iracing. Also, I would hope that ACC would have better gt cars than iracing as thats literally all the game is and are direct partners with blancpain.... However thats very subjective. Forza's tire model is lacking compared to a SIM but that's because we're comparing it to a SIM. I like Forza's tire model because it's consistent. It gives enough information on the wheel to know what it's doing and has a nice general rubbery feel to it. It's hard to explain fully. It's not perfect and by far not the most realistic but it is consistent and not frustrating or confusing like iRacing or F1 can be. The cold tires = more grip like you said is very weird and it just means you hand to drive in an unnatural way. Now when it comes to ACC I'm really excited. I recently watched Jimmy Broadbent's video on the new tire model and it does look really really promising. Totally agree with you that ACC should have better cars than iRacing because it's specifically tailored to GT cars. When it comes to how the physics feel, everything is pretty much subjective. I prefer consistency over accuracy, hence why I regard Forza quite highly. Where Forza suffers horrifically is the lack of refinement. I think you and I can both agree that Forza will never become a SIM because of its huge mass of content. That doesn't mean it'll never become more of a SIM but it'll never rival an iRacing, not a hope in hell. But this is precisely why I do my realistic tunes and setups. Forza's physics can be pushed much much farther than people think but Turn 10 really miss the boat and don't refine anything. Everything is chucked into their algorithm and engine with the thought of "that'll do" which isn't good enough. When you actually take time to refine it, it's really amazing how much better the game is but Turn 10 as always completely miss their own potential because they focus on quantity over quality which leaves a lot to be desired. Edited by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:24:21 AM(UTC)
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