This site uses cookies for analytics and personalized content. By continuing to browse this site, you agree to this use. Learn more
16 Pages<<141516Prev
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#376 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 5:28:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BriskArtist7600 Go to Quoted Post
1.5 year after launch - buggies class still broken on higher diff. levels. ZERO response from the developers so far. I mean come on? Everyone knows the RZR Polaris is completely BROKEN in it's current state and can't be beaten on certain tracks (mostly track that have few props).
At least stop adding Offroad Buggies to seasonal championships.


Every time there are offroad buggies races in the playlist, I bring the maverick or any cvt buggy. It evens the field.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#377 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 9:01:42 AM(UTC)
I think I figured out what is going on with unbeatables. They're all AWD swapped. I just tuned this fairly stock ( awd swapped and suspension maxed ) 650S, and I can beat unbeatables with no issues. If I leave it RWD I get stomped.

They also play almost exactly like people do online so if you have a problem with drivatar driving, you're at fault.

Something else I've noticed is that if you beat unbeatables enough, the game retaliates. They start getting more aggressive. It's annoying.

Edited by user Monday, February 24, 2020 9:53:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#378 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 9:07:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RashestQuasar99 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BriskArtist7600 Go to Quoted Post
1.5 year after launch - buggies class still broken on higher diff. levels. ZERO response from the developers so far. I mean come on? Everyone knows the RZR Polaris is completely BROKEN in it's current state and can't be beaten on certain tracks (mostly track that have few props).
At least stop adding Offroad Buggies to seasonal championships.


Every time there are offroad buggies races in the playlist, I bring the maverick or any cvt buggy. It evens the field.


I've never lost offroad buggies to Ai, because the Ai take wide turns, and I can undercut them every time. If you time your slide right, and hit the inside of the checkpoints you get a massive lead over them. Also the Ai don't jump very well even though somebody said that they do. I usually jump over them.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#379 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 1:18:11 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
I think I figured out what is going on with unbeatables. They're all AWD swapped. I just tuned this fairly stock ( awd swapped and suspension maxed ) 650S, and I can beat unbeatables with no issues. If I leave it RWD I get stomped.

They also play almost exactly like people do online so if you have a problem with drivatar driving, you're at fault.

Something else I've noticed is that if you beat unbeatables enough, the game retaliates. They start getting more aggressive. It's annoying.

AWD is easier if you can't drive. Sure, you can beat them with AWD, but with RWD too. They don't need AWD either.

I don't think they play like anybody, maybe a bit, but mostly not.

Some mood swings are there but hard to say what causes it.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#380 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 2:57:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
I think I figured out what is going on with unbeatables. They're all AWD swapped. I just tuned this fairly stock ( awd swapped and suspension maxed ) 650S, and I can beat unbeatables with no issues. If I leave it RWD I get stomped.

They also play almost exactly like people do online so if you have a problem with drivatar driving, you're at fault.

Something else I've noticed is that if you beat unbeatables enough, the game retaliates. They start getting more aggressive. It's annoying.

AWD is easier if you can't drive. Sure, you can beat them with AWD, but with RWD too. They don't need AWD either.

I don't think they play like anybody, maybe a bit, but mostly not.

Some mood swings are there but hard to say what causes it.


Teksenik, you posted on Feature Request topic about your experience with '08 BMW M3. I run test runs with it in both Road Racing and Street Scene events. I didn't make a new post but edited old my old reply. I think your experience with BMW could be debated further here.

So I run that BMW bone stock through every Road and Street event in game. I was able to win every event with it but struggled really bad at the Monument Wynds, Scenario was against AWD Audi starting from front of starting grid. I used only default blueprints for season. I screen capped results and they can be seen here, first for Street Scene and further back Road events. Note that there are multiple captures from Monument Wynds as it looked like I might be able to win the race but not necessarily beat the best time by fastest Drivatar. That turned out to be the case. My wining time captured here and best Drivatar time here. I think I needed about 10 races to win it but I only captured 5 shots from there total, which should present fastest, slowest and thus give points to rubber band / force field bracket speed dynamics relative to player performance.

What I would need is some players to take that bone stock BMW and run it against Drivatar lineup front lining that Audi and see how many races it takes to win and screen cap results. That is so we could decide if there's something worth submitting a ticket. I run manual, no TSC, ABS, etc, Sim-steering, default controller dead zones with controller that came with my Xbox One X.

My motivation is improving the product if there's something broken on that route and create opportunities for better peer support. Who is fastest or most hardcore player, I don't want anything to do with that. This is peer support topic and here we could have a chance to perhaps discover something that would matter, not just for us but every one enjoying Horizon.

You may notice that there are over 1000 screencaps at my TrueAchievements accounts. While there are some captures from Playlist events, most are data from my Street Scene test. All versus Unbeatable with same settings described above. I originally planned to make nice summary, send it to Retro with link to screenshots as proof, but now we don't have a community liaison anymore.

So when I write about Unbeatable being actually beatable, I don't talk about based to my opinion or some sort feeling but based on data, hard evidence. I have been sitting on that for couple of months actually. Past couple of weeks, while posting here all sort of stuff, I have been trying to figure out what do I do with all that data now.

Edited by user Monday, February 24, 2020 2:59:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed link

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#381 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 4:03:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
I think I figured out what is going on with unbeatables. They're all AWD swapped. I just tuned this fairly stock ( awd swapped and suspension maxed ) 650S, and I can beat unbeatables with no issues. If I leave it RWD I get stomped.

They also play almost exactly like people do online so if you have a problem with drivatar driving, you're at fault.

Something else I've noticed is that if you beat unbeatables enough, the game retaliates. They start getting more aggressive. It's annoying.

AWD is easier if you can't drive. Sure, you can beat them with AWD, but with RWD too. They don't need AWD either.

I don't think they play like anybody, maybe a bit, but mostly not.

Some mood swings are there but hard to say what causes it.


Teksenik, you posted on Feature Request topic about your experience with '08 BMW M3. I run test runs with it in both Road Racing and Street Scene events. I didn't make a new post but edited old my old reply. I think your experience with BMW could be debated further here.

So I run that BMW bone stock through every Road and Street event in game. I was able to win every event with it but struggled really bad at the Monument Wynds, Scenario was against AWD Audi starting from front of starting grid. I used only default blueprints for season. I screen capped results and they can be seen here, first for Street Scene and further back Road events. Note that there are multiple captures from Monument Wynds as it looked like I might be able to win the race but not necessarily beat the best time by fastest Drivatar. That turned out to be the case. My wining time captured here and best Drivatar time here. I think I needed about 10 races to win it but I only captured 5 shots from there total, which should present fastest, slowest and thus give points to rubber band / force field bracket speed dynamics relative to player performance.

What I would need is some players to take that bone stock BMW and run it against Drivatar lineup front lining that Audi and see how many races it takes to win and screen cap results. That is so we could decide if there's something worth submitting a ticket. I run manual, no TSC, ABS, etc, Sim-steering, default controller dead zones with controller that came with my Xbox One X.

My motivation is improving the product if there's something broken on that route and create opportunities for better peer support. Who is fastest or most hardcore player, I don't want anything to do with that. This is peer support topic and here we could have a chance to perhaps discover something that would matter, not just for us but every one enjoying Horizon.

You may notice that there are over 1000 screencaps at my TrueAchievements accounts. While there are some captures from Playlist events, most are data from my Street Scene test. All versus Unbeatable with same settings described above. I originally planned to make nice summary, send it to Retro with link to screenshots as proof, but now we don't have a community liaison anymore.

So when I write about Unbeatable being actually beatable, I don't talk about based to my opinion or some sort feeling but based on data, hard evidence. I have been sitting on that for couple of months actually. Past couple of weeks, while posting here all sort of stuff, I have been trying to figure out what do I do with all that data now.


You can't say something is broken if Unbeatable is unbeatable. It is all the other tracks that are broken... lol. To be more precise it is not a valid complaint to a game designer that their unbeatable Ai are unbeatable. If you want something improving in the game it would be that the Ai behave more like real people, and can drift more realistically. That can happen when the Xbox speeds up in the future. At the moment the Ai have restricted physics to keep the frame rate high.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#382 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:30:44 AM(UTC)
This thread is a pure gold! I started to read it from start and so much info there. I came to the party a bit late but at least I really started to play seriously with Horizon 4. Racing n00b :D Where are those researchers now? They moved to other games?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#383 Posted : Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:11:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post


You can't say something is broken if Unbeatable is unbeatable. It is all the other tracks that are broken... lol. To be more precise it is not a valid complaint to a game designer that their unbeatable Ai are unbeatable. If you want something improving in the game it would be that the Ai behave more like real people, and can drift more realistically. That can happen when the Xbox speeds up in the future. At the moment the Ai have restricted physics to keep the frame rate high.


I don't believe this to be so. This could be valid point, if it weren't but one route and in very narrow conditions (AWD starting from first row when player car is RWD in 5th. row).

For Road and Street events Purpose of "Unbeatable" AI is two folded.
1. Developers choice to use word "Unbeatable" for highest difficulty level, is clearly for psychological effect and not to be interpreted literally.
2. Highest difficulty works like all other difficulties, presenting challenge for player that pushes his/her playing skills and so expands player skill envelope.

Game is very consistent in this. Unbeatable is beatable in its all 26 Road Racing events and 18 Street Scene events out of 21, Monument Wynds being inconsistency and only in very specific circumstances, described above. I exclude Ambleside Ascent and Otleydale Dash at least for now, because I need to revisit my notes to see if win percentages are conclusive or not.

This one event, although only in specific scenario presents 2,27% of 44. So it's inconstant with 97,73 % tarmac events. I think it's very clear that we are not talking about something that is intended design, but an anomaly and appealing to choice of word "Unbeatable" is just semantic excuse, I can see programmer could use though. This is why we need managers, but I digress.

In 97,73% of tarmac events winning the race is a matter of player skill and in 2,27% it's up to random factor, luck, depending of what Drivatar lineup game draws from possible combinations, it's IMO very clear that feature is not working as intended and thus confusing players, it's clearly bugged.




What comes to AI behaving more like real people, certain Drivatar behaviour is curiously similar to tactics used in real racing with factory teams. I don't know what term was used globally, if there even was one, but in the US one pilot in team was driving as "Hare". Purpose of Hare was fast start, get lead, push as fast possible to wear competing teams drivers and technology down. This what Ford did in the '60s at least.
16 Pages<<141516Prev

Notification

Icon
Error