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I do not run or have control of the forum, therefore I am unaware if a person's post has to be approved or not.



We open up to various forms of social media as this was requested.

For example, some players don't like to come onto the forums, some don't have a Twitter account or are on Discord. This is why we try to be available across all social forms to open up each possible source of connection for all players that we currently can respond via.

Shouldn't a Community Liaison, she who develops the community, hold a somewhat higher position on the official forum pecking order? Is my understanding that you're hardly wielding more power than a moderator correct? It does look like we're getting somewhat closer to solving a great mystery concerning how we managed to steal the forum from under the devs' noses.



What if there were some players who wanted a single centralized source for any and all news, complete, official and trusted, without having to play dossier-compiling, amateur internet private eyes? Said source would be linked to, and discussed by, players active in any and all socials, and ye olden message boards both official and unofficial. Once they bookmark this source, players don't have to worry about missing out on things, because the information you find within is the news, the whole news, nothing but the news, and the so-called information you would find without is either leaks or fake news.

The source doesn't have to be a social media requiring accounts and registration, or even have a comment section: I think we have more than enough places to comment stuff, however it is that we prefer to comment stuff... I understand that these thoughts might be in rebellion against extant social marketing strategies which pursue endless proliferation, dispersion, compartimentalization, division and confusion.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 31, 2019 5:48:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

This would be the "Week in Review" under the general News section.

If you are looking for a place like this but to include discussion too, we would require "registration" for various reasons such as developers/mods being able to control if anyone was to come in and break the rules.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 31, 2019 5:46:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

WiR is close to what I seek but it's retrospective, as in the information therein is not the ("breaking") news, it aggregates and reposts older stuff, which we tend to already know by the time it is posted... It embeds the stream (the news proper) but does not mention in the text, for example, the couple of things you said about Update 13 that are yet to come...

It would have to be some manner of "Week in Preview" to match the vision of my previous post.

I was just sent an email to resubmit a ticket that I sent about 6 months ago about the colours in the auction not working properly. Why didn't the developers just test the bug themselves? They could have used one of the designs that I posted. Why are they getting me to do all of the work?

Anyway I have resubmitted the ticket, the bug is still there, and the game will probably die with the bug still in it.

I get what you mean. I'll look into this. WIR is done by Turn10 so I'll try and send this feedback over to what could be added and the time it's posted etc.

We don't often like to 'highlight' whats "yet to come" unless we have a definite answer or date. Plus WIR is more of a "here and now" type information.



This thread nor myself is support. You may want to post this in FH4 Community Support forum. You will get a more accurate and precise answer there.

I was thinking that the One Great Source could be convenient to you guys as well. Answer to questions such as: "Has this topic been covered?", "Has anyone from our team ever said anything about this?", etc. might be more easily tracked if all info is dumped in the same place, found always in the same place, first and foremost appears in the same place...

This is about communication, my ticket for a bug not on the list of bugs for 6 months, and still a bug, and they are still asking me if the bug still exists. So if my bug was on the list of bugs they wouldn't need to ask me, and the list of bugs is communication.

This is a conversation you'd have to have with the support team. Whilst it may cover communication, I can't help you unfortunately.

Edited by user Thursday, August 1, 2019 2:26:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Well you could suggest ways that the bugs could be listed properly. Maybe we should start our own list of bugs if PG don't want to do it?

They are listed.

Every ticket that is sent to the support site is looked into by the support team. If there's a fix, they inform the player there and then with advise or link to articles which explains the steps to get this fixed.
If it can't be fixed or is something that the team haven't come across before, they tend to report this to the relevant team and also input the bug into the system to get reproduced and then fixed.

The support team have procedures and options which they must ask. Sometimes tickets can be assigned to new/other people and therefore they're asking to be polite and check that the issue is still there.

This thread is not a place to ask about support. If you need any further information, please ask in the FH4 Support discussion forum so that the Turn10 support team can give you a more accurate & precise response regarding their procedure, or my DMs are also open.

Edited by user Thursday, August 1, 2019 2:42:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Respectfully, they are not.

Based on my own testing and feedback received both here and reddit, I have dozens of bugs on my Solutions Log that are not, and never have been, mentioned on the support site.

i.e. From launch day, users have been unable to join a ranked match if part of a convoy.

Or how about the snow tyres filter bug that's been present since day one?

In this thread we have told you several times that they aren't listed. Why would I be asked in an email if the bug still existed if they only had to look in a list? About 20 bugs that I know about aren't listed.

Edited by user Thursday, August 1, 2019 5:46:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

As noted in my earlier comment:

RK, you have way more patience than I would have.

Yeah, go ahead and post in the support form. I have been waitng since may to see a support team member offer anything. My support ticket didn't help either. Customer service is non existant.

BabySeal, you are making this look sort of personal and that's a mistake.

Just maybe personnel in her position have role and functions. Say if you buy that role, buy anything that makes you think these relationships are somehow normal, other than customer/commercial dynamic based, you might be on losing ground.

This is quite crude but... let's Imagine where you are boss in some company, maybe you make cars, maybe you sell paint or whatever. So you take glance to what is happening on feedback side and see someone is having it at some of your PR personnel. So perhaps you listen to it for a while but maybe it's bit difficult to get a clear picture what is happening exactly. But it's people who interact with your customers job to find out so you decide to forget it and go to exercise, or play golf or perhaps you play Forza. See, that's why you have PR people. There is certain freedom, later you may get more information via said PR person (function) and you are free to choose if you act on it, or if you just keep doing something else. Because in the end, as long as customers are having it at PR people, you really don't need to do anything (undocumented function).

That information is scattered around is a problem. I take it that you also wrote, emphasised even "collect, collect, collect" that said feature as end game goal doesn't satisfy you as player. I'm not saying your possible disappointment isn't valid, as a fellow gamer I can say that I'v been in position where I could have bought cars I don't have in game months ago (not including PO cars) I just haven't seen the point because I have so many I haven't even tried yet. I'm not saying my approach is any better (or worse) than yours but you might benefit from giving ideas and examples of what sort of content you would feel satisfactory.

What comes to official forums and thoughts you had I wrote few ideas below. This would work better if you will post what you think of those ideas regarding them too and add your own.


I'm all for One Great Source and for me in theory official forums would work the best. Regarding that and what RetroKrystal wrote earlier about, in a nut shell covering the media sphere and different needs player base has, the practical reality is that forum software is outdated. There is no easy way to link single post Twitter or Reddit or whatever there currently is and whatever will come.

There is also that forum response time is quite poor already and I don't know how well it would work with possible peak traffic from multiple social media platforms.

That said not every topic need to open to discussion. For some things old fashioned FAQ would do. For example question that I just recently saw resurfacing again:
Q: Why we are not able to paint brake calibers?
A: Due excessive work requirement going through every individual car in game to implement this feature, feature won't be implemented.
Q: 2
A: 2
etc.

FAQ like that doesn't need discussion. In fact it would make it useless, it could be a locked topic.

This could benefit both player community and developers (including community developers) by reducing constant "When this will be implemented?" -"It won't" "Says who?" -"Developers" "Said where?" on all media platforms including chats like Mixer and Discord. We need only single official source that it's easily linked by players participating in social media and official staff and volunteers be those volunteers people who work on official forum or Mixer channel, or player communities like Reddit.

Time is a valuable resource, especially in chats and everything that helps in moving on to topics, questions, whatever that covers actually implementable features would help interaction with players (customers) and developers. Though I rarely participate in Mixer events, it's a time zone matter, but also because reading is faster than speaking, they are good for certain things. I recall one live stream where PG's audio guy was present and there were prerecorded video sequence how sounds are recorded. In that same chat there was couple of people asking about D- and C-class lobbies, which was something I was a bit too curious too and that got very reasonable answer. For my part it was important for me to voice that for some of us C-class is the best thing in game, lot's of great cars in there. And that was it, I don't feel there was need to discuss about it any further.

The One Big Source in this, not everything can be covered in FAQ(s) so if we had topic which had past streams linked with text, bullet list of stream contents might be worth a try. That's a pretty big if, but maybe if we had easily linkable source covering something like, say sound question that surfaces from time to time, and I don't have any part in that, but at least there would be easily available source for players to see practical possibilities. At the moment they are all available via Mixer and also linked in here but to find a stream from quarter year back is another matter. I think I have seen perhaps once someone linking to past stream in discussions on this forum and maybe twice on Forza Reddit. So while streams are technically available, they are not easily accessed. What comes to MS / Playground Games and Mixer in the family, I don't know if views of past streams count towards anything. I don't believe there is any perfect solution for media coverage, there will always be gaps and sometimes only so much can be done to bridge those gaps. Ease of access to information is one thing, but there is a point where community/volunteers either take it or leave where in positive outcome that again would shows far further than in discussion on this official forum. Could be worth a shot though.

Have you seen the stickied posts at the top of this forum
About the first 10
Seem quite a few people dont read them before asking already answered questions

Since you asked, and I know you did play the latest expansion, did you do the "Table Flipping" Brick Challenge, the one where you have to smash 100 tables, possibly before it was patched to include other table designs under the definition of 'table'? What were we supposed to feel while repeatedly slamming our cars onto the restaurants of Brickchester, then fast traveling back and forth, in and out of the city to get the tables to respawn, and doing it over and over again until the challenge went away? Was it fun, engaging, solid game design? Was that what you were looking for when you saw the first trailers inviting you to "Beautiful, Historic Britain"? Did you come to LEGO Valley hoping to do more building, or more smashing? Were we supposed to be instruments of divine punishment upon the infidels, the evil "legos" who invaded our sacred racing game? Must the existence of a tiny destructible object inside the game be justified by a corresponding challenge? Whatever were we supposed to feel?

No, everything is not awesome. There has to be a way to make an expansion without making it revolve around a 12 Hours of #Forzathon on a tiny map. Was it you that asked on that Mixer stream where would people have set the expansion, and I replied: "Dubai"?

The content I desire for this game is no mystery, I have an unreasonably long wishlist, and as long as the developers continue to add cars you can find in it to the game, I can't possibly be mad at them - the latest addition being the 2019 Aston Martin DBS Superleggera. I am quite different from many in this forum that would struggle with or otherwise protest against seasonal content. It's also why you don't see me accusing Update 12 of being "trash" or whatever other insults.

As to other requests and questions, from the other wishlist:



Lastly, a reminder that submitting tickets for "known issues" or otherwise asking the devs to fix them is redundant and pointless. The slogan of our professional experts of communication shouldn't be: "Sumbit a ticket!", it should be: "Look at the list of known issues first, then if yours isn't there, submit a ticket."



I find it even worse with directly linking things written on the Discord, which appears to be the preferred means of communication (T|ol et al. are the developers that post there other than RetroKrystal, the latter lately also known as Community Warlock). There's a captcha waiting for you at the gates, I have to explain "T|ol is this individual that happens to work for PG..." every time, etc. It's awful.

It's convenient only when you're an official, card-carrying member of the secret society, which is why I have a Discord account in the first place: one repost from Discord too many eventually got me in.



The YouTube streams can be rewatched right away, as soon as the livestreaming ends (unlike the Mixer ones, but why?), as I do every first Monday of the month because I rarely manage to see the entire thing live. Said streams are the closest approximation to the Great One Source I propose, for they bring the actual news, but the individual bits of the news are a nightmare to link to. The YouTube chat is also completely unmoderated with shills and bots from competing companies filling it with repeated messages such as: "trash", "F" and "cre*per" for over an hour.

Honestly, being able to link and share things other than individual tweets, entire webpages, entire videos is already kind of esoteric knowledge. Said ability is well within the grasp of the nerds here and elsewhere on the internet, let alone the biggest, most awkward of nerds who ascended to the status of professional game developers, but how big is their percentage in an allegedly 10 million-strong userbase?



Hear, hear!

I for one think that a line needs to be drawn between "communication" and "marketing", but if the "marketing" part manages to persuade our fearless devs that the Great One Source is an idea worth exploring...

Edited by user Monday, August 5, 2019 1:58:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I did tested this by first browsing pinned streams topic and then using search feature of the forum with words "audio" "audio stream" and "calibers".

There were no hits in pinned topics. I got quite a lot of other results with keyword "audio" so I narrowed it a bit by making search using keyword "audio stream". I got some very good discussion about the stream, it was referred but no link to it, no date, nothing official. I tried to browse results further but got directed back to first page of search results.

For search word "calibers" there were no hits in pinned topics. I got other results though. The first was to this discussion and second was actually useful. It was not content in pinned topics however. It appears that you can link directly to posts via search function so hear it is: https://forums.forzamoto...uary-4.aspx#post_1042138

That's actually excellent example of what I thought would bridge the gap between different media types make forum (text based) and audio/visual content (streams).

None of the pinned topics present FAQ in it's traditional meaning. They are not usable for pasting quick link to live chat to reduce clutter.

I don't see your comment is any relevancy to current discussion as it looks very obvious that you didn't research topic yourself. Furthermore, why I go to this otherwise useless meta, for what I have seen I think you are generally helpful guy, but handling official side of things, creating new policies, features, getting resources, official side of this is the only thing that matters.

One more thing. So Babyseal posted here, perhaps it was not that easy to get what it was about at first, perhaps even bit personal. So Community Liaison kept him talking, another user comes around, he is obviously confused, Community Liaison does direct him to right area, at the same time kept first guy talking, to the point where we get to the point where we have something concrete like that info is scattered around and comes up with One Big Source thing and gets to transparency which is actual topic. So Community liaison kept him talking and guy did 75% of the work. For me that looks pretty much like real pro at work.

You can offer peer support like any of us, you can present ideas like any of us. Frankly, you are nowhere near what pro can do and you don't need to be.



Yeah I did, I think that was the last one did before I got enough of that. I posted my thoughts in LEGO expansion feedback topic and if you haven't already you should and include that you this sort of content isn't what you wish to see in future Horizon games and even if you already posted you can post more specific things. I don't think PG monitors every topic here so I think your best chances are there.

I actually didn't meant you to repost anything here, I meant it more like a rhetoric question regarding existing topics but things happen. LOL


Nope, wasn't me. I guess it's a common topic though. Personally I don't care, it's more about what settings make possible.


I don't think there's any sort of morality in there asking features, people will keep asking anyway. It's up to developer what they implement. I don't mind about critique either. Like I wrote earlier, these are not normal relationships. Those who are responsible for gathering feedback take what they see is important and pass it further. In ideal case the idea is about the product, feedback comes in whatever manner and it's not important if someone says something is trash, it's why said person feels like that or if there are any actual ground to that at all.


You have posted to relevant topics, I don't think there is anything else you can do.


I don't mind the manner message is delivered, though I see your point. I think it's important to understand that it's very likely scenario that questions asked from any personnel that is available in interactive media may be related to bugs. Not everyone in house has anything to do with tech support. So it would make sense to have a policy which leads customers having tech support question to direction where they can get actual help. Messengers ain't the problem here.


I don't actually really get what you are saying. I can't comment Playground Games presence in Discord or whatever social media platforms. For me it's unnecessary clutter that I don't want in my private life, for me it's about the choice. For business not so much, they need to be present wherever their customers/potential customers are. Some platforms lose popularity (Facebook) and some new ones come around (Discord). Not everyone use every platform, some us just forums. In general terms it can happen that visibility comes to first and content second, that is often result of poor strategy. In this case I wonder what your goals are? Whatever platforms there are their common purpose is to enable communication, messages are ruled by company policies, changing platforms doesn't make any difference. You have posted here and posting the same things on different media platform is just repeating the same message. What's the value of repetition?

You wrote earlier about forum being hijacked from the developers. I don't want to put words in your mouth so to say, but I could imagine that perhaps you are not certain that feedback given here isn't passed to developers and you liked to interact with them to be sure. I don't claim that to be so, I can't know. But if I continue about this imagined scenario, where are developers at this? If I happen to get unsatisfactory service in say restaurant, I will take it to reception first, if that doesn't work I wont meet the cook, I meet the manager. There is only one reasons I ever go to meet cook and that is to say "It was wonderful, thank you." There are different environments, say I buy a rubber duck that doesn't float because for some reason it melts in the water. Last year it was Harry in the shop who made them, then it was Dave and now nobody knows because they are made in China. There are however managers are responsible for local operations.


I think this is territory of Community Manager and Community liaison to figure out if there something here that would be worth pitching up. The thing is if we here could some sort of win-win scenario. For forum software, there needs to be feature that enables linking to single posts. All video content is now collected in one thread but summaries don't describe things like hey, we had our audio guy here in this stream, so they won't show up in search. So collect videos like that which information doesn't get old to their own topic with text description like what Tilo did. Furthermore, filter frequently asked questions and made single post about them, easily linkable etc. I don't know what all it should cover, Q: Why there isn't Toyota in the game, Ferraris are boring, all I want to do is deliver tofu? A: PG doesn't have licence to use Toyota vehicles in game at the moment. Q; Can I still request Toyota vehicles A: While licensing Toyota in FH4 is extremely unlikely, you can express your wish in car wish list topic (link).
Then some additional synergy Q: How GP records sounds of vehicles (or something like that) A: This was explored in detail in past stream with (official title for audio guy) link to stream. etc. Just food for thought.

Something I tried, I fired up Forza hub and checked the news section. I didn't find any link to release notes. There was link to past stream but reading is still faster. Community liaison and you discussed about something in frontpage and then it came about interactivity with developers and need for moderation. What I think there are lot of features that could enable things, but in practice they do not replace One Big Source. Thoughts?


Something else, that may be a bit closer to original idea of this entire topic (or not, even I'm bit confused) is if we could have a prerecorded video (which could be featured in weekly streams) where who ever is making selection to Featured Custom Routes to FH4 Tab, plays one or few custom routes.

Demonstration might include dev routes (Picachku or something like that has at least one really good one) great player made routes from the past and dev could play through them, show and explain things like that if checkpoints are well visible regardless if player is using first or third person view, is a plus and so on, would not only be form of transparency but also give opportunity to give hints and must have things (no Drivater traps) if Custom Blueprinter wants to hope to make selection. Additional benefit would be that it could encourage good Custom Route design and that way increase customer satisfaction because perhaps more well designed custom routes would become available. I don't think there's anything that could be done to utterly unsatisfying Gazillion Credits blueprints, there will be demand for them, they will get lots of likes. Moralising about that won't help but here could be window of opportunity for something else.

I would be interesting to see this with collaboration of Community liaison and Community manager with required personnel. Stream regarding audio design worked so well because he could show and explain about thing himself.

Esoteric knowledge or not, we already have it:



EDIT: For a recent example of the complete and utter failure of communication between developers and players, there are multiple topics and posts asking over and over and over again how to complete the stories objective in the Star Card.

The answer i.e: that more stories are eventually coming to the Mainland and enough of them to complete everything without the expansions, has already been given, but it's functionally irretrievable for me as I'm not gonna remember in which stream it was given, and I have absolutely no desire to research some 5 seconds of speech by sieving through entire hours distributed across multiple videos, or otherwise partake in this ongoing, colossal waste of time beyond the minimum amount of text.

As soon as someone asks for a source, I'm redirecting them the Discord where they would pester the devs for one. Let them clean up their own mess.

I for one would have put a "More stories are coming soon™, trust us!" notice someplace in the Star Card, where people can see it. Once more we highlight the differences between communication and social media, and communication and marketing.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 6, 2019 1:03:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

How embarrassing, I haven't noticed the whole thing. Could almost swear that it didn't show up in Edge before I loaded the page with Firefox too, but that is highly unlikely. But it's there, that's important, interlinking single posts as source is practical possibility.


Not fool proof. What if they say that they take pressure because resource working with customer/community relations aren't doing their jobs?


That's really good one IMO and good practical example how to communicate instead of attempting to communicate with content that has substantial value to community as players.

I'm not too sure who you are referring to regarding Community Manager (just to confirm, are you potentially referring to the Turn10 community manager or are you referring to another member of PG?) as the Community team here at the PG studio is just myself.

In terms of the FAQ - I'll look into this. I like the idea as I currently do something similar in Discord which has been a great source of information & resource. Maybe I can put together something very similar together for the forums. Or at least to note down all the questions & answers brought up in our livestreams as these tends to be the most commonly asked questions.

Regarding how you felt the audio design stream discussion worked well - I'm currently planning something which will be like this. You can see more information in the last post of this thread. It's still in planning and requires alot of trial and error but this is being looked into.

Let me get this perfectly straight: a multi-million dollar company is going to have a single person "develop" a community of 10 million players, across a dozen different websites and socials, for some 20 months, all by herself.

My friend, you ought to run for Prime Minister.

Edited by user Thursday, August 8, 2019 10:02:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My mistake. I thought one of the guys I have seen frequently in streams (other is Creative Director or something?) but it appears has other position. Person using Community Manager title and whom tag is Mechberg on forums works for Turn 10 then?

It doesn't matter really. I assumed that there is a team and you could do some back and forth about ideas, check options you have, not everyone wants to appear in any sort of stream which is perfectly reasonable, also not everyone can be available all the time for other reasons and so on.


I rarely watch your streams but for my experience questions in chat tend to be same ones asked in here and Reddit. BabySeal appears to be more regular and his experience appears to be the same. There's also that live chat draws different kind of audience, people whom have known each others for a long time and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. That said, well managed FAQ should cover lot's of social media, it's just that these official forums would be the source.


I see. Perhaps FAQ and for streamed content bullet list or streams contents and interlinking to FAQ when relevant would be improvement at least I would appreciate the most to happen in near future.