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Well, you're certainly not alone. I don't know what it will take for them to hit the same level of quality and polish as FM2 and FM4.

One question though: why did you feel the need to purchase three Xbox Ones and FM7 twice!?

Is it me or does it seem like the cars are easier to drive compared to previous iterations. Everything seems super grippy and it is almost like stm and tcs are not needed on any of the cars

I play on PC and absolutely love the game, but am devastated that 21:9 widescreen is not supported in replays.
I have an Acer 34" monitor and it kills me how beautiful it is when racing, but I have black bars on each side in replays.
I have never understood why they have not fixed this.

It's not just you. It's quite unfortunate that they're making the game more casual and arcade with every release. To date, FM5 has the best physics on Xbox One, IMHO. What people call driving on ice is very, very realistic and about as close to real track driving as a Forza game has ever been. Very nuanced and a reasonable learning curve. From FM6 inwards I think they've practically ditched the tire and aero physics. Although FM7 has somewhat improved suspension physics, they can't live up to the likes of PCARS2 or AC. This is why I stopped playing GT as well - the physics have hardly evolved since GT3.

For the record, I have never ever required TCS and STM in any of their games because I drive without them IRL, and love when the tail kicks out a little bit.

FM7 has a good base physics model like another Forza veteran mentioned once, can't recall their name - but that's all it is. It's a few 'base values' modified and applied to all the cars. It just doesn't want to evolve. If I drive IRL like I do in Forza, I'd be looking at some hefty insurance premiums.

I wish they would bring back the FM5 physics model and make it even more nuanced, with actual car data from the respective manufacturers. The physics just need to get to the next level - braking, suspension, aero, steering, everything! Weight transfer is actually done nicely, but there's a lot of room for improvement. Crowd funded games like PCARS are practically handing it to Forza in physics, and even in sound on some of the cars.

Edited by user Friday, July 26, 2019 4:32:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Really don’t want this game to be more arcade like. I prefer the sim aspect to it. Hate also the physics of Horizon with the latest iteration you practically do not need to brake. Truly sad. Still I do love Motorsport but no need to make the physics easier

Most things i could think of are listed already. Some i agree with, some i don't. Mine is less of an issue but still disappointing after FM6.

- It felt like track side atmosphere had been lowered on many tracks from FM6. Less people, trucks, buildings, bbq smoke etc. Not all tracks but definitely some. Laguna Seca for example.
I know performance is something they have to keep in mind but going forward i'd like to see track side atmosphere grow.

That's what he said... stop making it casual and arcade... aim for realistic physics...

Exactly - I don't even enjoy playing any of the Horizon games anymore except for Horizon 1 and 2, which actually require a little bit of skill.

Forza is becoming to focused on visual gimmickry far too much and a vast amount of cars up front (many among those have no business being on track or a road).

It is truly sad to see them build such a good base with FM5 and the older FM games on X360, and then strip it down to a casual game with ridiculous aspects like driver 'outfits' and track sound effects that are out of balance with car sounds - are they aiming the franchise at mostly teenagers and people in their early 20s? I'm pretty sure there's a massive audience in their 40s and 50s that have enjoyed Forza since the beginning.

I think it may be a lack of motivation. They're probably burned out and trying too hard to keep it fresh. How about they retain the best bits from older games and build from there? No? Okay, just saying!

Many of the things people are asking for regarding handling of the cars is very difficult with this much content. You can't compare a title like this, which has approaching a thousand different vehicles, with something like iRacing that has about eighty and they've been consistently adding cars for 10 years.

And while I agree with the request for track DLC I have to push back on complaints about the tracks in Forza 7. The title has a large selection of excellent tracks baked in from the very start. I can't think of another title with a better track selection than this and no one had to pay for anything additional.

Overall, Forza 7 does a ton of things very very well. No, it is not a PC racing Sim. But it still has huge amounts of content and a lot of good features baked in. It sounds like we will be getting some new tracks in the next title and that will certainly be appreciated.

Here is a request for the Forza 8 that I did not see in this thread. I would like to see a lot more options for the leaderboards. First, I would like local leaderboards to come back like they were in early forza games and still exist in GT Sport. I have a small Suite of cars in each class and love to set lap times on a given track and compare them to other cars in class. The only way to do this is with local leaderboards. Regarding online leaderboards, I would like to see some differentiation in how we can cut the data. In particular, I would like to see how my times stack up to someone else's who is driving the same car with no upgrades. I understand that modifying the vehicles is a big part of the title but I don't like the fact the leaderboards are really a combination of how quick are you and how much did you modify the car. If we could compare our times to the same car with no modifications then we would serve the audience who just wants to see how fast they are in a given vehicle.

I will not drive stock Forza suspensions. They are atrocious.

Every update the handling characteristics and physics become more and more Horizon-like. Might as well call this Horizon 7! Just sad :(

I'm a PC player. For me, good:
- Graphics. Smooth 4K support
- Nice looking menus
- Exellent GUI
- Forza Cup
- tuning
- user livery. Massively addictive.
- outstanding car selection
- tracks nicely replicated
- Outfits pretty useless and attracting lots of criticisms but for me it's a fairly meaningless yet nice feature if you think of it for what it is. Just a nice touch.

Bad:
- physics. Cars much easier to drive than in others SIM titles. Perhaps an option would be nice
- wasted development effort on junk like hot wheels and drag racing
- rally cars but no rallying
- updates don't give us new tracks
- no IA in multiplayer
- poor AI
- no time intervals (who cares about distance?)
- non customisable HUD
- No KERS, no DRS
- worst pit stop simulation ever. No fuel or tyre choice
- terrible tyre wear simulation. Almost no difference till completely worn
- Accelerated tyre wear and fuel usage would be good
- time of day and weather poor
- optional random failures would be nice
- no qualifying

It may seem like high expectations but know at least 2 games which offer all of the above (Aside from perhaps track DLC's) so it can be done. Line between FM and Horizon is getting blurry.

Edited by user Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:10:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Great list - i agree with most and in fact, people have been asking for these features for years as I've come to know, but still nowhere in sight.

They are bridging the divide between horizon and motorsport - I don't like it at all.



There's no stopping them from working on a low number of cars up front and then adding more through paid and free DLC. Low cars up front means the handling characteristics are done justice and the sounds are accurate.

Also, they can have a pure hardcore sim physics model for serious players - why won't they do this?

I like the features and stuff to do but some of them are utterly useless: ridiculous 'driver costumes' and cars that you could only admire in your garage and can't really enjoy on a race track.

the track collection is decent but it's getting stale - between FM4 and 7, they've added around 6 tracks I think - two of them are from FM4 while the handful of fantasy tracks that made the X360 Forzas so memorable are nowhere to be found. I'm a little weary of the track collection, to be honest. I say they bring back ALL the tracks and add a few more with the passage of time.

there are already arcade racing games to choose from - I'd rather not have forza join the ranks.

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 3:58:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

sorry - double post

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 3:58:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

100% agreement here. For this reason, (and pretty much just this reason), the FRR multiplayer lobby is a disaster for me, the cars in stock form are just horrible, oversteering beasts - no fun to drive at all. I am really hoping that the August update will offer at least one more FRR lobby, this one with full customization and tuning allowed. Ideally, it should be an option in EVERY lobby).

I find the same experience with the "Race" suspension components - in their "out-of-the-box" settings, the cars handle horribly. Same basic conditions as the stock suspensions, but at least they can be worked out with time and testing.

Oversteer? I think you mean understeering monstrosities that can ever turn and most when you release the throttle lose all grip because of the differential settings are god awful

Thanks for the clarification. I drive with wheel and pedals, not a controller, your mileage may vary.

In either case, I think most will agree that an untuned / stock car in this game is less than ideal.

Forza stock production car* suspensions are helplessly overdamped. You're both correct. They will oversteer, and understeer, depending on the situation and driver input.

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 5:02:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Of course they are, what did you expect?

People are forgetting one of the biggest reasons this game will never be a fully blown SIM and it's the fact we have so much content.

There's 830+ cars in Forza Motorsport 7. Let's say 750 unique ones after duplicates. That means for the stock suspension to not be "attrotious" you have to model 750 unique suspension setups. That's not going to happen, not when every car has different curb weight, downforce weight, corner weight, weight distribution, steering angle, unsprung weight etc.

Hence why Forza does what's smart, they throw everything into what's essentially an algorithm that spits back a tune. It does a decent job for the most part but some cars do slip through the cracks such as rear engined cars. They don't refine the stock tunes because how can they? The time it'd take to do that for 750+ cars is astronomical. For example, a lot of people complained about Porsche's lifting up the front wheels and most of them assumed it was the physics themselves. That's incorrect, it's down to the stock suspension setup.

People expecting realistic setups for 750+ cars are in a dream world. Why do you think most SIMS have far less of a car count? It's because it takes far less time to add attention to detail to 100 cars then 750+.

Now, personally, I'd be in favour for a Forza Motorsport 5 style car list purge, where we go to around 200 cars and make them more refined but the majority of the community isn't going to want that and rightfully so.

Thankfully, this isn't even a huge problem because upgrades and tuning are a thing and we have some talented tuners out there who can put pretty nice setups on these cars. As for stock hoppers, just stay out of them.

As for cars understeering, most cars in Forza have more front grip and less understeer than real life, hence why you can take most cars to tracks and be much faster than their real life counterparts. A McLaren P1 can do a lap around the ring in the low 30's, high 20's.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 12:09:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I don't think it's that at all.

Forza Motorsport had to be different from Gran Turismo. GT is snappy and immediate. Forza is "controlled", "refined". The stock setups cater an antithetic image.

GT pad steering (what I remember of GT5..) is intuitive and immediate. Forza pad steering is "different". Between it, and the stock setups, the cars would be undrivable, without the controller yaw assists. All 3 together make Forza very different from GT.

It's a shame, because Forza has (had*?) better tire physics than GT. If they could stop trying to be different, only try to be good, Forza could become the ubiquitously better title. GT Sport didn't invent ride frequency or damping ratio. They realized that applying the same engineering methods as real-world race teams and independent drivers do was the most effective way to help players have the most fun and satisfaction possible with their game. They didn't invent steering like you mean it and embracing oversteer as an expected consequence of pushing the limit. They understood that driving fast, is fast, and fun.

edit: watching vids of GT sport now. It's not like GT5 was.. idk.. some of what I said above might be relevant.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 5:37:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: because I don't proofread enough

I agree with parts of what you said but GT Sport's car list is far smaller. Going by Kudosprime's numbers, GTS has 299 cars while Forza Motorsport 7 has 833. It's has around 36 to 40% when taking in duplicates.

The base physics of FM7 are very good. It has a very good tire model that has a tire flex and deformation system better than a lot of SIMS, where different compounds have different properties (try driving with the drag tires, the flex on the rear is incredible to see). It has a great Force Feedback system, by far the best of the franchise and in my opinion, not far off Assetto Corsa's (though I haven't tried Assetto Corsa Competitzione yet but I've heard that's fantastic on the wheel). Forza also, apart from the poor stock tunes has a decent suspension model and they also stimulate some other nice things like chassis flex, a really nice transmission system where lifting off the power in certain cars causes the revs to fluctuate and I believe they also simulate driveline flex if memory servers me correct.

The problem with Forza's physics is that it simulates the bare minimum. There's no ERS, DRS, KERS, hybrid deployment or recovery or active aerodynamics. They're all pre-baked into existing physical properties. There's no brake fade or tire wear until you hit 90% and the damage model though excellent when you actually get damage, has a bug where you can't get any contact damage unless it's 100% damage.

That aside, the base physics are good, it's just that they need to add to it. The main problem is a lack of refinement on a per car basis.

Have you tried either one of my realistic tunes & setups? I use handicaps, upgrades and custom tuning to push the physics as far as they go. The reason why they feel much better than a stock Forza car is because it's been refined but within the parameters of the physics. It shows what can be done with the existing physics model we have.

Ignore the poor FPS but here's a video of my realistic McLaren P1 setup at the Nurburgring. I think the lap was meh, enough for amid 6:50's but much closer to real life than the high 6:20's low 30's that's possible with the stock setups in the past:

https://youtu.be/XMD8MTLG6fE

https://youtu.be/PR2lN4PYSlY (Realistic IndyCar at Long Beach)

If we had a purge to around 300 cars, everything would be so much better right out of the bag but then you're losing so much content.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:46:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Where do you get your information that they are modeling all of the things you claim? Or is this just fanboyism and making false claims like i see so commonly around here?

Tire flex is modeled in the game and is quite visable. I'm pretty sure tire flex has been a thing since Forza Motorsport 4 or perhaps even earlier. One of the old Forza Motorsport 4 in-game trailers showed a Mazda Miata autocross with the camera zooming into the tire flex. Transmission or rev fluctuation can be found in specific cars in Forza Motorsport 7. The 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder has a large amount of rev fluctuation particularly in 1st gear. Chassis flex was mentioned back in the Forza Motorsport 5 days when they were comparing old classic cars from the 60's to modern cars. I could very well be wrong that it's modelled, I'll have to find the clip once I'm home from work and hopefully I do. During the 2017 E3 for Forza Motorsport 7, when driving the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS at Dubai. The first two (tire flex and rev fluctuation) are definitely present, the second two I could very well be wrong or have misinterpreted, hence why I said "... I believe if my memory serves me correct" in my original post.

Also going to add that when racing online cars behave differently from what you tuned them to do 24/7. Example, just tuned my RX-7 to race on walkins glen for class b, literally raced with the car for over half an hour with no changes to it once I finished tuning, went online to race with it, completely different result, same turning points, same braking and accelerating for the differential, suspension locks up 24/7. Go check it offline, races like it's supposed to.

This happens over and over and over and over again. Fix this.

https://forums.forzamoto...line-Flex-and-Audio.aspx

Here's the forum thread from over two years ago on driveline flex which ironically I posted in 2 years ago, go figure lol. and it's even mentioned in the support site:

https://support.forzamot...Audio-Settings-and-Music

Not at home yet, but I'll see if I can find other stuff later. That was just a quick Google search.