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Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#26 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 11:45:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
A big wall of text which could be compressed to the sentence:

"Reeeeeee, unicorn cars! I wish I had the will and brainpower to spend a half hour in FH 4 each week to earn them."


Ebay sellers sure are mad
Rank: Racing Legend
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#27 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 2:12:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LoneWolfAlex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
Oh no, I have to go on holidays and can't collect a few pixels. My life is ruined!!!

I have paid for this game. Shouldn't I be able to have the full content? Or am I to old school?
Where did I whine?


You already have had the full content
All this extra stuff is really bonus content...optional but not necessary ...it used to come at an additional cost..now you get it just for playing about 30 minutes each week

Nobody NEEDS to even do it or are even forced to do it but for some reason a lot of people think they need to so they get random cars that they will most likely not even use
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#28 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 6:24:43 PM(UTC)
The one thing I'm annoyed about is tying buyout limits to legend painter status. This has annoyed me since Forza Horizon 3. I get that Turn 10 wanted to reward legend painters and tuners, but they can't even get that right. They're rewarding whoever is the first to post a design for a new car. This in turn causes people to make color changes or some other low effort 5-minutes-or-less design. And these people are getting all the popularity and downloads while the painters who actually take the time to make elaborate designs that the community will love are getting left in the dark. Tying auction house buyouts to legend painter status doesn't work, period.

I know I'm going to get the inevitable "But we put effort in our paints so we deserve to be rewarded" or something like that. Here is my address to that:

If the person going to reply with this is a legitimate legendary painter, then you have my utmost appreciation and respect. Keep up the great work. At the same time, I pose the following question. Do you think someone who simply changes the colors of their cars deserves to be given the same status as you, who spends hours, even days on your designs? Because that is what the current legend painter system is doing.
Rank: Moderator
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#29 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 7:22:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: tabsaid Go to Quoted Post
Exclusive cars will pop up to earn again.

Pure speculation on your part.


https://support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/360022460533-Gone-Forever-Missed-Opportunities-Explained
Gone Forever? Missed Opportunities Explained
Quote:
Car rewards in Forza Horizon 4 cycle throughout Seasonal and Series events.These reward cars are available to purchase and sell on the Auction House.

Some players may be concerned that they missed out on a once in a life-time opportunity.

It should not come as a surprise that ALL reward cars will cycle back into future events, challenges and #Forzathon Shop offerings.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#30 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 7:35:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LoneWolfAlex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
Oh no, I have to go on holidays and can't collect a few pixels. My life is ruined!!!

I have paid for this game. Shouldn't I be able to have the full content? Or am I to old school?
Where did I whine?


You already have had the full content
All this extra stuff is really bonus content...optional but not necessary ...it used to come at an additional cost..now you get it just for playing about 30 minutes each week

Nobody NEEDS to even do it or are even forced to do it but for some reason a lot of people think they need to so they get random cars that they will most likely not even use
Yes, yes and again YES. You have nailed the situation, as usual, Talby!

Rank: Racing Permit
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#31 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 9:21:05 PM(UTC)
Let me start by saying I'm lucky enough to have gotten all legitimate cars within the game by grafting and being lucky with the auction house.

However I can see some vaild points within this thread.

For those of us who enjoy doing the tasks set out to obtain exclusive cars/content, it brings a sense of achievement and some sort of playability to the game, out with Rivals etc. Although deep down we also know we don't want to be without said car or item as we will feel left out or our collection being tarnished.

On the reserve though are people who suffer from real medical conditions such as FOMO / Anxiety. I can understand the pressure placed on these people having a son who is borderline on Asperger's. The 'Wow' factor of having a car that's special within itself unintentionally invokes the condition and symptoms to increase.

As with a lot of games lately, the school ground comes to mind and the old 'Sticker Books' where kids would swap them to fill their books. The kid without would be picked on or feel left out. A major game we all know has cost thousands of pounds on some cases with kids kitting out their characters to avoid bullying or 'missing out'.

It's not a matter of 'give give give' it's more the principal I believe that the 'peer pressure' or 'being forced to do something' annoys people. By nature people don't like being forced into doing something. These games do just that.

Maybe game developers should design their games whereby acquiring 'all' in game items can be achieved by several means other than 'A Time Limit' or 'One of Event'.

Like the reveal treasure, signs etc for map, maybe a 'buy out' option could be offered for all cars/content so people who simply want to play the game how and when they please can do so?

By context when we purchase a game we are buying a license to play the game by the developers intention, hence exploiting this can (should) result in a ban. We are not buying access to 'Everything within it'. It's the developers choice should they allow access to everything at once, or drip feed it.

Thankfully PG nor T10 have went the rock bottom way, where by forcing us to part with real cash every other day is becoming the norm for games exploited at kids! Although that doesn't stop the hackers making real cash because of it all.

Edited by user Friday, July 26, 2019 9:21:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Looking for a free tune calculator?
Visit: http://forzatuner.com
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#32 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:35:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LoneWolfAlex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
Oh no, I have to go on holidays and can't collect a few pixels. My life is ruined!!!

I have paid for this game. Shouldn't I be able to have the full content? Or am I to old school?
Where did I whine?


You already have had the full content
All this extra stuff is really bonus content...optional but not necessary ...it used to come at an additional cost..now you get it just for playing about 30 minutes each week

Nobody NEEDS to even do it or are even forced to do it but for some reason a lot of people think they need to so they get random cars that they will most likely not even use


The dev will achieve the same effect by making the car available in the Autoshow, the only difference is what will be required to get it. There are cars I still don't own due to how expensive they are. Surely they're taking way more effort on my part than any of the exclusive cars... The difference is that I know they'll always be there.

There's no reason to lock these cars behind events other than generating artificial interest in the game. That's why new releases like the Rimac, meta cars like the Bone Shaker and highly requested cars like the 812 or the 2018 Civic have been locked. Obviously the team is aware the Bone Shaker is OP in A class so they made it a 80% completion prize a while ago.

This current system is hurting the game in a few ways and I'll have to repeat myself:

- More difficult to spot bugs in locked cars since they may be delayed until Spring (it was the Apollo's case and it has a graphics bug)
- Less content released by creators for these cars (not painted as often for example)
- The economy is a mess and hacks run rampant, which prevents players from using the AH the way it was intended
- The cars that were actually supposed to be rare, they are not! (FE cars)

They start at 30 minutes, then they move up to 1 hour, 2... When you notice, you're playing the game for 6 hours straight to get a car, and counting. By the time I unlock the car, I'm bored and leave the game. If it was unlocked from the start I'd be playing these hours with the car itself as I did with the Ranger Raptor. Forza Horizon is a franchise to fool around in, not to earn your stuff in. I'm sure people will have a higher opinion of me IRL if I tell them I won this week's Trial in FH4 (sarcasm obviously).

But the biggest reason why I'm against Playground's practice is simple: T10 went the other way and it didn't hurt their game. In fact, very few people were against the cars being unlocked. The simple fact the cars were added to the game would spark interest in it. With FH4 it's more like "cool, they added the Rimac!" followed by a "meh, what menial task will be required of me to earn it...". I ran all these tracks countless times, it makes no sense for me to "earn" these cars when I could make better Championships myself if Playground gave me the means (Blueprint can't do that anymore in FH4).

Edited by user Friday, July 26, 2019 10:37:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#33 Posted : Friday, July 26, 2019 10:49:13 PM(UTC)
Excellent original post, everything summed up neatly. And I agree with many of the follow up posts too.

To add my two pence worth...

The poster who looked forward to the game "twilighting" do you mean go End of Life? I've had exactly the same thought! I long to go into this game one day and it just being me, my garage and the open road, like every other Forza game. Finally it will be the sandbox that the three previous games have always been.

To those who say, "You don't have to do the challenges if you don't want to," I agree. Though I only wish the splash Season Playlist wasn't the first thing I see covering the screen every time I log in.

Meanwhile, offline open-ended elements of gameplay, that we can work through when we want and at our own pace and in our own time, have been wholesale removed. Specifically for me, the biggest losses are the offline championships career grid, customisable championships at every race route, and the Photo Promo feature. I can't tell you how the loss of these have left the game feeling gutted for me.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#34 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 4:18:02 AM(UTC)
I think it's disingenuous to try to frame this discussion as whiny entitled lazy gamers who want their trophy without putting in the effort. There may be some minority of that, but by and large I don't believe that's the case. I don't mind content being locked behind in-game achievements, in fact I prefer it. Even a few behind multiplayer achievements isn't out of the question.

And I know I'm aware, and I think most of us are aware on some level that it's our own psychology that's doing this to us, and not the game schedule. But the game schedule set up the conditions to bring it to the fore. And it's not inconceivable, given how game designers are trained to tap into player psychology, that this is by design. I know, and most of us know, that we can take a week off whenever we want, and any digital food pellets we miss will roll back around again eventually. And even if they don't there are 650 other digital food pellets, so it's no big loss. And it's just a game at the end of the day anyway.

But we still do it, and the game is designed to emphasize the drip feed of new bonus content centering around the weekly schedule. And some of us are better able to cope with that than others.

I guess that's the crux of it. This is what the game has become now, and is this what we want? There's a tipping point somewhere, where we know we're being manipulated, and choose whether to continue to tolerate it, or to shut it out. And that's where I feel Forza is right now. Right on the knife edge of what I'm willing to tolerate. The OP was not wrong when he alluded to Pokémon and the 'gotta unlock 'em all' trap that we've let ourselves fall into.

I suppose it could be worse. It could be microtransactions and loot boxes.

Originally Posted by: DottierLearner8 Go to Quoted Post

The poster who looked forward to the game "twilighting" do you mean go End of Life? I've had exactly the same thought! I long to go into this game one day and it just being me, my garage and the open road, like every other Forza game. Finally it will be the sandbox that the three previous games have always been.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. That game is in there, under the surface, and I'd love to get back to it. But then there's the playlist, which like you say is the first thing we see, with the new MacGuffin X40 FE, and… Oooh! Shiny! Must have it!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#35 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 5:20:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
So sick of the lazy whiners if you want something earn it this whole give me everything now attitude really gives me the ….. if playing the game is such a hassle why play it?
I own every car in game earned them all. why should those of us who do make the effort not have exclusive cars. for a while at least until they all come around again, as every one will.
I still complete 100% every series even though reward for doing so is a now a joke 5000cr a huge chunk of influence would be fairer for those of us who do make the effort.

only thing do agree with is bring back the ability to turn off cross play so sick of having to compete with low life pathetic cheaters who also want things not earned.


I did earn it. I went to work, did my job, earned my salary, and gave Microsoft the full price for the game and associated services.

I then played the game, winning every race in every discipline (incl. the Goliath), 3 starring every story chapter, 3 starring every stunt, breaking every bonus board, and doing all of the above in both expansions. (To preempt the inevitable "you're lying": check achievements.)

So what is it you suggest I haven't done that makes me undeserving of getting the full use of what I paid full price for?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#36 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 6:53:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
So sick of the lazy whiners if you want something earn it this whole give me everything now attitude really gives me the ….. if playing the game is such a hassle why play it?
I own every car in game earned them all. why should those of us who do make the effort not have exclusive cars. for a while at least until they all come around again, as every one will.
I still complete 100% every series even though reward for doing so is a now a joke 5000cr a huge chunk of influence would be fairer for those of us who do make the effort.

only thing do agree with is bring back the ability to turn off cross play so sick of having to compete with low life pathetic cheaters who also want things not earned.


I did earn it. I went to work, did my job, earned my salary, and gave Microsoft the full price for the game and associated services.

I then played the game, winning every race in every discipline (incl. the Goliath), 3 starring every story chapter, 3 starring every stunt, breaking every bonus board, and doing all of the above in both expansions. (To preempt the inevitable "you're lying": check achievements.)

So what is it you suggest I haven't done that makes me undeserving of getting the full use of what I paid full price for?


You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#37 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:21:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about.



I play a fair amount still, and aside from when a new exclusive is added, or the 812 (which should unlock in about 20 more days, barring bugs in the business payout code), the remaining exclusives are simply no longer unlocking, nor are there any available in the auction house. The reward loop has simply ended.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#38 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:53:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
So sick of the lazy whiners if you want something earn it this whole give me everything now attitude really gives me the ….. if playing the game is such a hassle why play it?
I own every car in game earned them all. why should those of us who do make the effort not have exclusive cars. for a while at least until they all come around again, as every one will.
I still complete 100% every series even though reward for doing so is a now a joke 5000cr a huge chunk of influence would be fairer for those of us who do make the effort.

only thing do agree with is bring back the ability to turn off cross play so sick of having to compete with low life pathetic cheaters who also want things not earned.


I did earn it. I went to work, did my job, earned my salary, and gave Microsoft the full price for the game and associated services.

I then played the game, winning every race in every discipline (incl. the Goliath), 3 starring every story chapter, 3 starring every stunt, breaking every bonus board, and doing all of the above in both expansions. (To preempt the inevitable "you're lying": check achievements.)

So what is it you suggest I haven't done that makes me undeserving of getting the full use of what I paid full price for?


You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)



No. They haven't always done it this way. It started this way in FH3. Have you played FH1 and FH2? I can go back to those games TODAY and still work on acquiring just about any car (definitely the ones that shipped at launch, and any DLC cars I purchased - yes you originally had to still save up and buy DLC cars even after you paid real money to add them to your game - getting a copy of DLC cars for free came later). The only thing I can't get now in those games is what was originally a tiny handful of unicorn cars - which started out being things that you had to have gifted to you by devs I believe. But there was such a small amount of them it didn't impact the feel of the game much. There were no timed events. I can go back right now and race and earn credits for any showroom car and any DLC car I paid for. The time limited cars stuff started in FH3. There are cars in FH3 I can't get now simply because I didn't start playing the game at the right time and I missed the early timed events.

And where do you get the idea the guy doesn't want to actually race and complete challenges? Did you read the part where he said, and I quote: "I then played the game, winning every race in every discipline (incl. the Goliath), 3 starring every story chapter, 3 starring every stunt, breaking every bonus board, and doing all of the above in both expansions." Last time I checked, that constitutes racing and completing challenges. Where do you get the idea he doesn't want to actually play the game? There's a difference between playing the game on your own schedule, at your own pace, and being forced to complete repetitive challenges week after week. If you've won every race in every discipline and 3-starred every PR stunt and Horizon Story and probably earned enough credits to buy every showroom car and every home property, then I think it's quite nervy to accuse that person of 'not wanting to actually play the game'.

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#39 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:57:26 AM(UTC)
To everyone that's seeing the same thing OP is--there's a really easy solution I found for this. Uninstall. The older titles are greatly enhanced by their lack of support (read: T10 and PG catering to the Fortnite crowd), servers, and gated exclusives. There are 3 solid Horizon titles and 4-6 (depending on your tastes) solid motorsport titles with far more racing content than the current gen. I expect the trend of dwindling content and gated exclusives to continue because the community has become dominated by a "no lifer" mentality. They like it this way, and arguably since they're the majority they should rightfully have what's left of the franchise. None of the new players are going to miss the veterans, nor are many of the new players invested in racing sims. It sounds like you've outgrown this franchise and need to move on to the popular sim titles on PC. Those games aren't geared towards collecting, loot boxes, timed events, gated exclusives, and other garbage design strategies. Seriously, save your breath and move on to developers that're interested in designing games you'll enjoy.
"..." ~ The Stig
Rank: Racing Permit
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#40 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:59:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post
I think it's disingenuous to try to frame this discussion as whiny entitled lazy gamers who want their trophy without putting in the effort. There may be some minority of that, but by and large I don't believe that's the case. I don't mind content being locked behind in-game achievements, in fact I prefer it. Even a few behind multiplayer achievements isn't out of the question.

And I know I'm aware, and I think most of us are aware on some level that it's our own psychology that's doing this to us, and not the game schedule. But the game schedule set up the conditions to bring it to the fore. And it's not inconceivable, given how game designers are trained to tap into player psychology, that this is by design. I know, and most of us know, that we can take a week off whenever we want, and any digital food pellets we miss will roll back around again eventually. And even if they don't there are 650 other digital food pellets, so it's no big loss. And it's just a game at the end of the day anyway.

But we still do it, and the game is designed to emphasize the drip feed of new bonus content centering around the weekly schedule. And some of us are better able to cope with that than others.

I guess that's the crux of it. This is what the game has become now, and is this what we want? There's a tipping point somewhere, where we know we're being manipulated, and choose whether to continue to tolerate it, or to shut it out. And that's where I feel Forza is right now. Right on the knife edge of what I'm willing to tolerate. The OP was not wrong when he alluded to Pokémon and the 'gotta unlock 'em all' trap that we've let ourselves fall into.

I suppose it could be worse. It could be microtransactions and loot boxes.

Originally Posted by: DottierLearner8 Go to Quoted Post

The poster who looked forward to the game "twilighting" do you mean go End of Life? I've had exactly the same thought! I long to go into this game one day and it just being me, my garage and the open road, like every other Forza game. Finally it will be the sandbox that the three previous games have always been.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. That game is in there, under the surface, and I'd love to get back to it. But then there's the playlist, which like you say is the first thing we see, with the new MacGuffin X40 FE, and… Oooh! Shiny! Must have it!


Yeah. The hours that I put in each week are spent completing the playlist. By the time I'm done with the playlist, I feel like my time is best spent on other activities. Going out with friends and family, catching movies in the theater, running errands, etc. I can't be on Forza 24/7. I have a job. I'd like to get better at drifting (and I actually still need to 3 star a lot of the drift events), but by the time I'm done grinding through the playlist, I don't have the energy to start working on the drift stuff.

I think a lot of the conflicting opinions here come from 2 sets of people: those with a busy schedule and not a ton of time to devote to Forza, and those with a decidedly un-busy schedule who have all the time in the world to play Forza and don't have much else to do.

Edited by user Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:00:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:18:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
This in turn causes people to make color changes or some other low effort 5-minutes-or-less design. And these people are getting all the popularity and downloads while the painters who actually take the time to make elaborate designs that the community will love are getting left in the dark.


When a new car is released, have a look at the creation dates for both the designs and tunes available for that car.

The creation dates for both are sometimes over a week before the car is even available to the regular player.

This is due to the time-travel cheats who get the seasons and future content early, so when the rest of us are able to access the new content, there is already 100s of designs and tune available pre-dating the official launch of the content.

Due to my work, I'm lucky enough to be able to play the game when the Season changes take place on a Thursday @ 15:50 in the UK and even when I steam through the Trial, PG Games and other events quickly, there's always loads of players have beat me to it with designs and tunes for newly available cars and like you say TLF, a lot of the designs are just simple colour changes.

Edited by user Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:21:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#42 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:20:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KOG7777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post
I think it's disingenuous to try to frame this discussion as whiny entitled lazy gamers who want their trophy without putting in the effort. There may be some minority of that, but by and large I don't believe that's the case. I don't mind content being locked behind in-game achievements, in fact I prefer it. Even a few behind multiplayer achievements isn't out of the question.

And I know I'm aware, and I think most of us are aware on some level that it's our own psychology that's doing this to us, and not the game schedule. But the game schedule set up the conditions to bring it to the fore. And it's not inconceivable, given how game designers are trained to tap into player psychology, that this is by design. I know, and most of us know, that we can take a week off whenever we want, and any digital food pellets we miss will roll back around again eventually. And even if they don't there are 650 other digital food pellets, so it's no big loss. And it's just a game at the end of the day anyway.

But we still do it, and the game is designed to emphasize the drip feed of new bonus content centering around the weekly schedule. And some of us are better able to cope with that than others.

I guess that's the crux of it. This is what the game has become now, and is this what we want? There's a tipping point somewhere, where we know we're being manipulated, and choose whether to continue to tolerate it, or to shut it out. And that's where I feel Forza is right now. Right on the knife edge of what I'm willing to tolerate. The OP was not wrong when he alluded to Pokémon and the 'gotta unlock 'em all' trap that we've let ourselves fall into.

I suppose it could be worse. It could be microtransactions and loot boxes.

Originally Posted by: DottierLearner8 Go to Quoted Post

The poster who looked forward to the game "twilighting" do you mean go End of Life? I've had exactly the same thought! I long to go into this game one day and it just being me, my garage and the open road, like every other Forza game. Finally it will be the sandbox that the three previous games have always been.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. That game is in there, under the surface, and I'd love to get back to it. But then there's the playlist, which like you say is the first thing we see, with the new MacGuffin X40 FE, and… Oooh! Shiny! Must have it!


Yeah. The hours that I put in each week are spent completing the playlist. By the time I'm done with the playlist, I feel like my time is best spent on other activities. Going out with friends and family, catching movies in the theater, running errands, etc. I can't be on Forza 24/7. I have a job. I'd like to get better at drifting (and I actually still need to 3 star a lot of the drift events), but by the time I'm done grinding through the playlist, I don't have the energy to start working on the drift stuff.

I think a lot of the conflicting opinions here come from 2 sets of people: those with a busy schedule and not a ton of time to devote to Forza, and those with a decidedly un-busy schedule who have all the time in the world to play Forza and don't have much else to do.


I think you're right about there being two competing sets of interests. For what it's worth, I fall somewhere in the middle. I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty flexible schedule with leisure time for gaming. I just don't like playing games that drip feed me with a to-do list. I have clients that pay me to clear their drip feeds of to-do's--as a result, I have no interest in helping a studio pad their active/concurrent player stats (especially if I'm paying for this "privilege"). I work in advertising, so I'm fully aware of the motivations (sometimes outright needs) behind these design strategies. It's just not my cup of tea. The harder you ping me with a drip feed, the more I'm going to peek under the hood and look for flaws like thin, repetitive content, copy/pasta sound files, reused assets, etc.. Products with legs don't have to nag their customers for their attention.

Watching other players try to get into a sim/sim-cade franchise and get frustrated doesn't bring me any joy. The vast majority of my friends have zero interest in racing sims as a whole, and the few I've tried to introduce to the franchise end up hating the experience. I don't get any sense of accomplishment, nor satisfaction knowing I can complete objectives my friends and other players cannot. Seeing posts like yours also frustrates me because your schedule shouldn't have any bearing over enjoying a product you paid for with your obviously hard-earned money. So, to sum it up, I fall into a third category with time to play this game, but doesn't like watching a company treat its player base like some kind of commodity or resource to exploit.

Edited by user Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:21:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"..." ~ The Stig
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 8 users liked this post.
#43 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 11:03:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)



Firstly, Forza Horizon 4 is not an F2P game (yet). This "everything you get past the base game is a bonus" shouldn't apply here.

From memory, the first few seasonal championships (emphasis on seasonal) didn't unlock exclusive cars. So the game did not ship with such a feature. In fact, neither did it ship with the Playlist, nor timed challenges apart from Forzathon, which gave you some room to earn points however you wanted, especially at the beginning when the prices were low.

Most of us complain about one-time rewards locked behind timed events, really, as we're skilled enough to earn the cars on our terms. I have completed everything that's possible to unlock in this game save for Ranked Online which I'm not interested in and isn't even tied to completion. I own all of the exclusive cars. But, when appealing to the broadest possible demographic, Playground need to take into account their fanbase is not just kids and teenagers, there are adults in there, people who must cope with the demands of adulthood. Even in the future with xCloud available we won't be able to run Forza Horizon at any time we want in order to complete these challenges, and we don't become any more special in real life for completing these challenges.

Speaking of "special" things, that's precisely the issue: the concept that you need some kind of "special effort" in order to get certain cars. It's not enough to complete challenges anymore, it has to feel "special". Almost a mirror of Facebook: not content with travelling you have to post the photos to "remember". Thing is, the fact these challenges are timed does not make them any more special, because they're as much a chore as the grindy challenges racing games began to have starting with Gran Turismo. All they do is put pressure on the players and prevent them from enjoying the other content Microsoft has to offer, since the biggest lie told this generation is that the Xbox has no games.

The fact some cars have been repeating too often is a sign the team might agree with having moved too far in one direction but is unwilling to go back on what they added to the game since it's too late now. You don't just remove the Playlist altogether and, as a calendar of sorts, it isn't even desirable to do that.

Edited by user Saturday, July 27, 2019 11:08:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#44 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 1:44:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)



Firstly, Forza Horizon 4 is not an F2P game (yet). This "everything you get past the base game is a bonus" shouldn't apply here.

From memory, the first few seasonal championships (emphasis on seasonal) didn't unlock exclusive cars. So the game did not ship with such a feature. In fact, neither did it ship with the Playlist, nor timed challenges apart from Forzathon, which gave you some room to earn points however you wanted, especially at the beginning when the prices were low.

Most of us complain about one-time rewards locked behind timed events, really, as we're skilled enough to earn the cars on our terms. I have completed everything that's possible to unlock in this game save for Ranked Online which I'm not interested in and isn't even tied to completion. I own all of the exclusive cars. But, when appealing to the broadest possible demographic, Playground need to take into account their fanbase is not just kids and teenagers, there are adults in there, people who must cope with the demands of adulthood. Even in the future with xCloud available we won't be able to run Forza Horizon at any time we want in order to complete these challenges, and we don't become any more special in real life for completing these challenges.

Speaking of "special" things, that's precisely the issue: the concept that you need some kind of "special effort" in order to get certain cars. It's not enough to complete challenges anymore, it has to feel "special". Almost a mirror of Facebook: not content with travelling you have to post the photos to "remember". Thing is, the fact these challenges are timed does not make them any more special, because they're as much a chore as the grindy challenges racing games began to have starting with Gran Turismo. All they do is put pressure on the players and prevent them from enjoying the other content Microsoft has to offer, since the biggest lie told this generation is that the Xbox has no games.

The fact some cars have been repeating too often is a sign the team might agree with having moved too far in one direction but is unwilling to go back on what they added to the game since it's too late now. You don't just remove the Playlist altogether and, as a calendar of sorts, it isn't even desirable to do that.


So basically you're complaining that you paid money for a game but are too busy to even spend a few hours a week on it. You see how crazy that sounds right? If life is too busy to play games then you obviously should NOT be wasting your money on them. You can't blame PG because you make bad life decisions. That's beyond insane.

Rank: Racing Permit
 5 users liked this post.
#45 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 2:26:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)



Firstly, Forza Horizon 4 is not an F2P game (yet). This "everything you get past the base game is a bonus" shouldn't apply here.

From memory, the first few seasonal championships (emphasis on seasonal) didn't unlock exclusive cars. So the game did not ship with such a feature. In fact, neither did it ship with the Playlist, nor timed challenges apart from Forzathon, which gave you some room to earn points however you wanted, especially at the beginning when the prices were low.

Most of us complain about one-time rewards locked behind timed events, really, as we're skilled enough to earn the cars on our terms. I have completed everything that's possible to unlock in this game save for Ranked Online which I'm not interested in and isn't even tied to completion. I own all of the exclusive cars. But, when appealing to the broadest possible demographic, Playground need to take into account their fanbase is not just kids and teenagers, there are adults in there, people who must cope with the demands of adulthood. Even in the future with xCloud available we won't be able to run Forza Horizon at any time we want in order to complete these challenges, and we don't become any more special in real life for completing these challenges.

Speaking of "special" things, that's precisely the issue: the concept that you need some kind of "special effort" in order to get certain cars. It's not enough to complete challenges anymore, it has to feel "special". Almost a mirror of Facebook: not content with travelling you have to post the photos to "remember". Thing is, the fact these challenges are timed does not make them any more special, because they're as much a chore as the grindy challenges racing games began to have starting with Gran Turismo. All they do is put pressure on the players and prevent them from enjoying the other content Microsoft has to offer, since the biggest lie told this generation is that the Xbox has no games.

The fact some cars have been repeating too often is a sign the team might agree with having moved too far in one direction but is unwilling to go back on what they added to the game since it's too late now. You don't just remove the Playlist altogether and, as a calendar of sorts, it isn't even desirable to do that.


So basically you're complaining that you paid money for a game but are too busy to even spend a few hours a week on it. You see how crazy that sounds right? If life is too busy to play games then you obviously should NOT be wasting your money on them. You can't blame PG because you make bad life decisions. That's beyond insane.



People's free time fluctuates dude. You might be busy one week and have more free time next week. You might want to give Forza a break for 3-4 weeks and focus on playing something else, then come back to Forza when you're feeling in the mood again. That's all we want. The freedom to play and enjoy the game on our schedule. Instead of the 'you will play X hours per week and complete challenges A, B, and C AND complete online activities which you hate in order to enjoy the new cars that have been added' stuff that we are getting now. Which was NOT how FH1 was, was NOT how FH2 was, and wasn't even actually how FH4 started out.

If you enjoy being on a constant hamster wheel you must not have much else to do.

I do have some time to play games each week, but I can't really take a break from Forza if I don't want to miss new content. So I haven't even dug into other stuff in my pile like Red Dead Redemption 2, Ace Combat 7, Yakuza series, Metal Gear Solid V, Assassin's Creed Unity/Syndicate/Origins/Odyssey. Those are all time intensive games too.

So some will say 'so just go play other stuff and don't worry about missing some new cars'. And I would reply: it's beyond dumb that it should even have to be a choice. I could take a break from FH1 and come back to it later and not have missed content. I could take a break from FH2 and come back to it later and not have missed content. Why is anyone normalizing or justifying this new business model?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#46 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 2:42:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
You paid for the original game NOT any additional free content (unless you're psychic and knew everything that would be added after a year). So you DID get what you paid for as did I. Second you bought the game knowing full well there are challenges to unlock cars. They've always done it this way. It's nothing new so that's on you if you bought a game that doesn't suit your needs. The time it takes you to get mad over the game, you could be racing and unlocking the cars you're whining about. If you don't like a game with challenges and having to actually race maybe try a different genre or get a game where everything is handed to you instantly (which is the most boring thing ever because then there isn't really a reason to accomplish anything.)



Firstly, Forza Horizon 4 is not an F2P game (yet). This "everything you get past the base game is a bonus" shouldn't apply here.

From memory, the first few seasonal championships (emphasis on seasonal) didn't unlock exclusive cars. So the game did not ship with such a feature. In fact, neither did it ship with the Playlist, nor timed challenges apart from Forzathon, which gave you some room to earn points however you wanted, especially at the beginning when the prices were low.

Most of us complain about one-time rewards locked behind timed events, really, as we're skilled enough to earn the cars on our terms. I have completed everything that's possible to unlock in this game save for Ranked Online which I'm not interested in and isn't even tied to completion. I own all of the exclusive cars. But, when appealing to the broadest possible demographic, Playground need to take into account their fanbase is not just kids and teenagers, there are adults in there, people who must cope with the demands of adulthood. Even in the future with xCloud available we won't be able to run Forza Horizon at any time we want in order to complete these challenges, and we don't become any more special in real life for completing these challenges.

Speaking of "special" things, that's precisely the issue: the concept that you need some kind of "special effort" in order to get certain cars. It's not enough to complete challenges anymore, it has to feel "special". Almost a mirror of Facebook: not content with travelling you have to post the photos to "remember". Thing is, the fact these challenges are timed does not make them any more special, because they're as much a chore as the grindy challenges racing games began to have starting with Gran Turismo. All they do is put pressure on the players and prevent them from enjoying the other content Microsoft has to offer, since the biggest lie told this generation is that the Xbox has no games.

The fact some cars have been repeating too often is a sign the team might agree with having moved too far in one direction but is unwilling to go back on what they added to the game since it's too late now. You don't just remove the Playlist altogether and, as a calendar of sorts, it isn't even desirable to do that.


So basically you're complaining that you paid money for a game but are too busy to even spend a few hours a week on it. You see how crazy that sounds right? If life is too busy to play games then you obviously should NOT be wasting your money on them. You can't blame PG because you make bad life decisions. That's beyond insane.



If I'm insane, you have either selective or just plain bad comprehension.

What I'm saying is, I want to do whatever I feel like in the game, with no pressure. I don't want to be unchallenged, I just don't want a deadline. Real life is already full of deadlines for me. And I don't want to be held hostage by scammers in the AH if I happen to miss this deadline.

As FM7 demonstrated, Playground loses nothing by making these cars readily available at any time, either through the Autoshow or via permanent challenges. Yet they chose to go the other route. Everything T10 did to regain our trust last year, Playground is doing the opposite of this year, which shows a clear rift in how both studios are handling the franchise. Playground answers on behalf of Forza as much as T10 right now.

As my hundreds of hours in FH4 can attest, I have more than enough time to play the game. But I want to do it on my own terms. Playground seem to have a different idea, though, which contrasts with the motto from when the game was first released, that we'd be able to play "our way". The Playlist is so stringent, it even motivated GTPlanet to write an article in criticism of it when it came out.

Others like Ubisoft are doing this timed nonsense as well, but Ubisoft (and EA) are hardly an example to be followed when it comes to business practices, right? Like I said before, first they take 1, 2 hours. When you realize, it's six. Twelve. Twenty-four. Two, three days.

Finally, focusing exclusively on time probably helps you divert attention from the other obvious issues that arise with locked cars, which were already brought up twice in this thread, doesn't it? IMO Playground shouldn't even attempt a unicorn system if they're having trouble creating a healthy economical system for the game, but business has other demands.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#47 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 2:57:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Unicorns are not a new thing to Forza. I missed the 360 era but I know there were many.
360 was the golden era of gaming, for sure. Well, I say this as an old person. For me, 360 era was when graphics were just starting to get good, but the "loot box" and "day one 50 GB patch" mentality had not yet taken hold of the industry. I'm about 10 cars away from "catching them all" and yeah Horizon 4 feels like a car collector game, not a racing game.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 7 users liked this post.
#48 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 2:58:01 PM(UTC)
I think this may have been the Forza game I've played the least of. I may have even played FM7 more than this. While there was a lot of external factors limiting my ability to sit down and play the game, even now I've got the time to play again, I just don't feel like I want to. And that's not for lack of trying either. I want to like this one, I should like this one, it has everything (almost) down to a T. My home country, with places local to me, places I've actually driven in real life. Even cars I've had the pleasure to drive in real life. The seasons are a nice touch as well, keeps the map somewhat fresher for longer. But then I look at just how much I've missed out on, and with no guarantees that it's ever going to be available again, and I lose motivation to continue playing. This games as a service model being shoehorned into just about every game these days is killing off my love for one of my favourite hobbies. If this continues into Forza games in the future, you've lost at least one loyal customer in me. I know the usual lot will jump straight on that with "oh, well you'll be back here next year complaining about the same old issues". I doubt it this time around, I really do. There's only so many times you can hope, and plead that things will change eventually, but instead it only gets worse and worse with each new iteration. I used to be active and vocal on these forums, not anymore. I used to be a daily player of the Forza games, not anymore. I used to be there for a day one purchase of the ultimate editions, and sadly, not anymore. Forza was the reason I made the switch from Playstation to Xbox, and sadly it feels like a shadow of its former self. With each new release it feels more and more like the passion that was once there, the group of car enthusiasts who put their heart and soul into making a good game has changed into one of that that's just chasing the next dollar.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#49 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:02:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
A big wall of text which could be compressed to the sentence:

"Reeeeeee, unicorn cars! I wish I had the will and brainpower to spend a half hour in FH 4 each week to earn them."


Yeah, sure buddy, it really only takes half an hour yeah? Can I come visit this other planet you seem to be living on?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#50 Posted : Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:27:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
A big wall of text which could be compressed to the sentence:

"Reeeeeee, unicorn cars! I wish I had the will and brainpower to spend a half hour in FH 4 each week to earn them."


Yeah, sure buddy, it really only takes half an hour yeah? Can I come visit this other planet you seem to be living on?


To get 50%? Probably doesn't even take half an hour. To run one championship or the Trial? Definitely less than half an hour unless you get really unlucky with teammates or the Trial is ridiculous.
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