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I've said before and I'll say again, I don't get the mentality that everyone shouldn't have equal opportunity in the Forza games.
Yes, things in real life can be unfair, but this isn't real life, it's a video game. A zany, arcady-sim racing game. We all spent $60-100 (or local equivalent) to play this game, so we all should be treated in an equal manner in it; including those that can't or don't wish to partake in certain events, rather than blackballing them.
In earlier racing games, yes, you had to work your way up the chain and earn cars by earning in game money or credits. The difference was, you could actually earn these things through normal gameplay, in your own time. There might have been a few unicorn cars, but there weren't dozens upon dozens of them.
As others have said, the way this comes across is just as a doubling down on what has already been complained about ad nauseum here and in other places online.

Repost from last page, because I put a bit of thought into this and I don't want it to get lost in the last page, while being an answer to someone elses post. So here goes again:

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So I took all the postings here and I tried to make challenges that might be interesting for everyone.

At first let me say that it is impossible to do THE ONE challenge that makes everyone happy, so I included something for everyone, let us call it FH4 decathlon. I made sure to make use of the most complaints and try to avoid them:
- not time gated
- achievable for everyone
- challenging content

I would use the Forzathon points, reset them and force every saved forzathon point into super wheelspins. This means, if you have 300 points, you get 2 SWs, if you have 301, you get 3, if you have 449, you get 3 and so on. I do this so I can use the points and avoid people just rightclicking the reward, because they have saved 100k Forzathon points.

During one month, you get the main price for 40k Forzathon points

1. once per week: win an offline race against unbeatable AI on track XYZ, 10 laps and rewind off -> 1k Forzathon points per race type (street race, road race, dirt race and offroad) = 4K total per event = 16k total
2. once per week: Drift challenge: get points XXXXXX in the following 3 drift tracks -> 1k FP = 4k total
3. There are 4 Forzathon challenges (the 4 stages with one car thingie) per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4k FP
4. Seasonal trials: There are 4 seasonal trials per month, each give 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
5. seasonal team based PG games once per week: each win gives you 1k Forzathon points = total 4K FP
6. monthly rivals: 5k FP points if you manage to be in top 20%, 2500 if you manage to reach top 50%
7. qualify for unranked adventure once per month (or 10 races): 5k FP
8. one drag race per week: 1k FP if you manage top 20% or 500 FP if you manage top 50%= 4k FP max
9. Four championship events on Fortune Island per week against Expert AI, each event gives 250 FP = 4k total
10. Four seasonal challenges (jump, speed zone, high speed) per week, each 250 FP = 4k total
11. each daily challenge gives you 100 FP and if you manage to do all 7 you get 300 extra points for a total of 1k per week = 4K FP total

This gives you a total of 58k FP points. So you have some wiggling room and can leave out events/challenges that you dislike or simply cannot do due to skill. If you do not manage to reach 40k FP via the events, you can grind the Forzathon online events.

Obviously I have not really thought much about the point system, it might need some balancing, but an event like this would not force you into stuff that you dislike, you can leave one week out (vacation/work stuff) and still get it, it would populate the servers, it is a lot to do and if you do everything, you have even more more wiggling room the next month. So you can get a lot of points if you plan a vacation e.g. And the really great thing about this system is that you even include points for lesser skilled guys. So for example Point 1: if you win vs pro, you get half the points and a quarter if you win vs expert.
Everyone could play whatever they want and collect huge amount of points in areas they excel in.

I think it needs more thought, but it would be fair for everyone. Even absolute casual gamers with low game time and low skill would be able to snag a reward once in a while, but not all of them.

What do you think?

I am out of town for four days next month.

Help me get better to account for that.


The system is rigid at 100%. One oops and missed challenge, one that is outside of the players skill or time to invest. Bam, that is it. It is game over. Almost nobody likes every part of the play. So you choose. don't do the challenge at all because you don't want to run a Drift PR requiring a greater than three star or do you suck up doing things you really hate like the dumb playground 5 round challenges where last team to ragequit wins.

Majority of the player base is not minmax meta players. Your two hour estimate is laughable, like grotequely so. Many players have said that it would be pushing and spending all their time focus on this to get this because there is only so much play time in a day.

It is possible to make a challenge that is challenging, but not punishing. This is not one of those things. A player MUST go through negative gameplay experiences at a significant non constructive investment in order to achieve it. That means player burnout or just frustration and loss of interest.

Drop it down from 90%. Players need to achieve a range of regular achievements, but with leeway to match how they like to play. Problem solved. Score X many points over the month, you win!

Just like every single other game that has successful time limited milestone events.

Edited by user Sunday, March 10, 2019 1:57:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Thanks for your comment, but please check my latest comment and you will see that I tried to set up something like you suggested.

Well this change have made that i have done zero races after that stream and in first time since october i have play other games on xbox. Bigger playerbase dont mean better multiplayer and no matter how big playerbase is not change the fact that multiplayer in this game is terrible. And i dont anybody else but doing something like playground games every single week it's not challenge, it's not fun it's come job that you must do if want to get every single car. And abaout cars it's not like you miss one car because every season reward is exclusive car, so lets say you are good enough driver to beat expert drivatars then you miss way more than just one car, and that is hideous lock away punch of cars just not by time limits but also in skill level so only guys who are good enough can get those exclusive cars and this comes from someone who can beat expert drivatars easily.

And these things they are not even attractive new content, doing same playground games week after week in not new attractive content, championships well those are nothing new either, pr stunts been there done that, so mostly in this content is just old content even their new content showcase remixes is just chancing weather and maybe a car i wouldnt say that either attractive new content.

Well at least one thing this horizon playlist is done, it's take all attention from their not able to fixing wallriding and ramming after 6 months.

The problem they ran into is quite simple, they ignored the problems with online play and now, nobody wants to play online. Wallriding should have been fixed from day one, but they wanted new players that have no clue how to drive.
All well and good, but eventually, everyone gets sick of the wallriders and bangers smashing into everything around them.
If they ever hope to get multiplayer working, they are going to have to address a lot of issues. Group bullying, wallriding and overall mayhem and carnage is not an enjoyable driving experience. You don't address that, no reward will ever be worth the effort required to achieve it.

That was is similar to how most games do it, but now they have fully functional and ready to launch mechanic, it isn't possible. Just giving forzathon points isnt viable because then will just be mass dumps of the forzathon shop cars. But it is similar to how other games properly implement it.

This is how they really messed it up. In this one and having to do everything, it means must partake in the negative experiences.

The purpose of challenges like these are to nudge people into just coming online... play a little... Then they do one of a multiple count of tasks in order to make progress. It is a selection they are choosing from and as such, is something they want to do. That point has now become a bit of fun, a positive challenge. So many points, you go up a tier. It is encouraging players to play. Once they hop in and play a little, will keep playing. A way to get them coming to your game even if they purchased something else.

But it is too late for that because we have the mechanics as is. Ideally it would be just points counting to milestones with more options than are required, different weightings depending on the difficulty. Not an expansion of other things, just ticks like it is now. But cause what we got is what we got, the best option is just to reduce the 100% down to a lower percentage. It still has flaws, but now players can get a pass card from the negative play.

It wont make it better, it will make it worse. I don't play ranked at the moment because competitive play doesnt match the thematic play I prefer. I like variety of cars and race what I am in the mood to race.

So now if I am going to it and need to team adventure? I wont care about meta. My car wont be minmaxed optimized, and I will just bring what I want to have fun with. Sorry team. I race for me, not for you, I will respect my team mates, but still race my way. So if I also have to win or whatever? Well, I will full on corner bomb and wall ride to get it done so I can get back to my stuff I enjoy more.

Team adventure is going to get really ugly because I at least do care about my team. You are going to get a big influx of lower skill players who treat it far more causually than I do. Is a reality of the situation, be ready to see drift cars show on your team more.

What I find frustrating about this update is that nothing has really changed. We're still going to be doing the same types of events, except now there is a new fancy checklist that forces us to play things we might not want to. This isn't an "all new way to play" as they call it, the gameplay hasn't changed at all.

This update just feels like it's there to boost engagement numbers in certain parts of the game. People should want to play these parts of the game because it's fun and they want to, not because they're forced to. That's what I think PG are missing here. These band-aid solutions do not work, first it was the jacked up prices in the Forzathon Shop, now this update. Focus on the root cause. If people aren't playing certain parts of the game, or not spending their Forzathon points, ask yourself why. Maybe these parts of the game just aren't fun, maybe there's nothing interesting to spend Forzathon Points on?

I don't really see this checklist as a challenge, it's just tedious, boring, and feels like a chore. I won't lose any sleep though, I know I've said it before but I just don't care anymore and it's such a shame that Forza Horizon has fallen into the 'games as a service' nonsense.

Hell, I could be wrong about all of that but this is just how I see it. Sorry for the long post lol.

Fixing this is as simple as lowering the percentage requirement for the top reward cars. That means PG still get a high amount of engagement while players are free to pick two or three elements to pass on and focus on the rest instead.

I really don't know what drove them to go for 100%. I just see 100% and immediately know it's highly impractical if not impossible, so I don't see myself even attempting it. Surely that just means less people playing the game?

Edited by user Sunday, March 10, 2019 4:16:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

They are taking out free roam rush? That would be sweet. Any ETA?

I think the problem is that in modern gaming, people no longer play games because they are fun, but because they are essentially fancy skinner boxes. Do X and get rewarded.

Me, I just driving around and racing. I don't care about challenges. Most of my fun in the game is making my own courses and racing them. But I do care about driving different cars and its very annoying that so many are locked up

I guess I'm getting too old for gaming.

Anyone think its possible that they will be losing a ton of folks and this is there way of padding the stats i mean the game will be leaving gamepass at some point and that will kill a lot of players.

I just spent the last hour doing just that and had a blast. But it wasn't in Horizon 4 at all. I pulled up another hardly used gamertag and started Horizon 3 again. And guess what? It was way more fun than 4 is. And no FORCED drama at all.

I dont see horizon leaving in gamepass anytime soon, microsoft is trying to make gamepass one of the corner stones of xbox and horizon being one of their flagships game it's easy assume horizon will be in gamepass in years, in that point many casual players is allready move on long time ago.

If they intentionally aim to create a situation of haves vs. have-nots, I think anger is inherently unavoidable.

Edited by user Sunday, March 10, 2019 7:19:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Correcting autocorrect

People need to quit equating grinding with challenge. Getting 100% completion for a season isn't *hard*. Its *time-consuming*. Hard is fun, time-consuming is just annoying.

You are absolutely right. We had a short, but very productive chat with RetroKrystal on the discord this sunday evening here. It was the refreshing discussion and acknowledgment of consideration that those of us who have presented frustration had been looking for.

Now this isn't the order the conversation went in, but it was points that I felt were key. The first one is one that I do not think was in question. It is not their intention to cause bad experiences..... RK said it much better than that, but point is, we can in pretty good faith assume that they want players to go YAY! So with bringing in longer term participation awards, the FE Capri being the most sought after car seemed like a good reward for those who are active and regularily participating, but still needed to keep it's exclusivity of sorts. It is the gold standard for sought after cars outside of PO which cannot be given out.

Well, we who were chatting in discord agreed. There has to be awards for those who are most dedicated and skilled at the game. From what we were able to be told, this way of doing it best fitted that prize for the players. It was a way that opened the FE to be a big objective every player can shoot for. We did agree with that. Having a longer term objective was good, and that the components of it were fair with daily totals and all the different events.

Further discussion went onto mentioning the almost 100%. It was considered, but it was felt that no matter what the value was, if 90, then people would complain about 80 and such, the slippery slope. Bit more and were able to more come down to that the number is arbitary, but what mattered was the context. Myself and others in chatting with RK sort of helped clear the air and what players were looking for is a way to do it, but get say one event and one daily freebee or something similar just to keep it fun without devaluing the car.

We were told that there was no intention for this to be the only time, so it was at 100% because of intention to offer cars again in future in different ways so different plays could get them. That this being the first run would be looked at more and adjusted to match what the players did.

All in all, I think that the information discussion shared well, I think there is a better understanding of the player point of view and now will just have to wait and see what PG does. Of course, put up your suggestions of what you think would be reasonable. Still a bit before the patch goes live, so lets hope they can get in that last minute tweaks.

In this case, it isn't even a grinding. For time, in some aspects it isn't even a lot of time. In regards to play, I am betting most players already do easily in excess of the 50% point and will hit that without even noticing. 70-80% for many players probably is not a stretch either depending on what the rivals and adventure mode entails.

Now have said my concerns about the reliance on old dailies, but that last bit of a percent I am betting really doesn't take up much more time in addition to that. I know time wise, it would only be the playground games that is a real time sink for myself unless they are tweaked for next series. Trials seem more sorted out and found this season to actually be quite fun. The problem aside from above is... why do players not do that last 20-30% Instead of having players focus more on that 70-80, we are being pushed to do stuff that is not done for whatever the reason. That will have more of an effect than anything other than not getting it for one missed random.

Hard isn't fun. Time-consuming can be fun depending on how the time is consumed. Indeed, entertainment in general is basically just time-consumption we hope to enjoy.

You should understand that there are a lot of people, incuding me, who bought the game for the only reason - to collect all the cars. I easily collected all the cars in FH2, FH3 and FM7. Even there already were a lot of challenges for the cars in FH3, they never demanded you to do a lot of challenges including MP with the short deadline. They barely caused inconvenience to you. And, also, of course in FH3 it was much easier to buy the car you miss in the AH. So it was normal to get cars pretty easily in FH3, so why should it be through the pain in FH4?

When you are a car collector, missing at least one car without any confidence to get it in future, means total lack of desire to play FH4 anymore for you. And nobody said that these cars will be recycled in future. As nobody said you'll be able to get these cars from wheelspin (that would be OK to the most players I think, at least there will be a chance). So, the guys who played for the only goal to get all the cars may easily turn away from the series. And yes, just because missing the only car.

And you mentioned that in real life you cannot have everything you want. But shoudn't the game be the opposite to the real life? Nobody would buy and play a game knowing that there will be an interesting content which they may not get. That's the reason why I don't play free-to-play mobile games, the only difference that in FTP mobile game you're not supposed to pay to find out it.

Edited by user Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:18:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Just had an idea that to me would really change this event! I have just submitted the suggestion already via the tickets, but want to put it here for your reference.

Context is that my initial idea was reducing the 100% to 90% and based off the discord talks:

You've already missed it twice, though. The Capri FE was available for about 20 minutes by mistake back in November, then as Grandmaster League reward Series 4 (I think it was 4).

Edited by user Sunday, March 10, 2019 8:30:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Added quote

This is pretty nice idea, I think. But I want to say something more. In that way it would be great, if all exclusive cars would be available in Forzathon shop since the addition without any time limits. You earned 10K FP, you can buy a Porsche 914/6, for example. And, of course, there should be a restriction to buy no more than one exclusive car of every model.

I'm not too interested in Capri FE and FE cars. But the upcoming weekly cars are not FE.