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Rank: Driver's Permit
 6 users liked this post.
#1 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 12:53:51 PM(UTC)
The single player game is currently relatively empty in terms of content, but it replenishes over time (well). In the meantime, we are waiting for this filling "content" nothing remains, how to go to play multiplayer. And I'm incredibly sick of this car. We do not have a class D, C, B,( A, S1 while the bone shaker on the road). At the moment, the content game is inferior even to 1 part, and you have added an bone shaker adventure to everything. Thanks you! Great job!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#2 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:08:46 PM(UTC)
AGREED!!! I get delighted to see people not using that car. It feels like a cheat car, not saying it is but it sure does seem to be faster than every other car in A class. Some people use it in S1 and even on cross country. UGH
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

Check me out on Mixer! www.mixer.com/dareocharmer
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#3 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:16:27 PM(UTC)
Hmm, not sure who is sarcastic and who is not, but just to clear out things, next season, boneshaker will be at reach of everyone so get prepare to have A class drawn by boneshakers ....
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#4 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:20:18 PM(UTC)
What will change next week is that lots of people will have TWO Bone Shakers and will be able to use it for S1 as well as A class. That reminds me, I must develop an S1 tune ready for getting a second one.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:31:00 PM(UTC)
Well, lets enrichen this chat. Why is the boneshaker so powerful?
Low center of gravity?
Power?
Big traction tires?

Now PI is supposed to be is supposed to be the balancer, but cause of mathematics and car sizes, etc, there will always be something that has a minute advantage. So is the boneshaker actually all powerful or it is a meta accepted as such?

Thing about meta and a balanced game is that usually it isnt all powerful and only works from people not looking at alternative or why. Often started because somebody says it is best and perhaps marginally is. Then minmaxers or other people invested pick it up followed by hype train. Result is a large number of users so higher odds of seeing it on podium just from the odds.

Now in racing, physical size really makes a difference because it gives more room for movement from side to side. Autocross this is a massive thing because for example in a slalom, a narrow car needs less side to side motion to clear but still doesnt mean its actual handling is as good. Perhaps this is part of the case with boneshaker?

I am assuming though that all PI is calculated from something related to the stats used in physics. If it actually does get an easy and quantifiable advantage, then how the PI in general needs to be looked at.

So I recommend not just putting out boneshaker is a problem, but why? What advantage in racing does it get not possible with other cars? What tune/configuration is broken?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:32:40 PM(UTC)
I'm not being sarcastic at all. I dont like seeing it in the rooms and some of the rooms are full of people using it just like everyone uses the 2017 Raptor. I have one but its too heavy. I have a bone shaker but i'm not selling it. I have one of every car in the game
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

Check me out on Mixer! www.mixer.com/dareocharmer
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 1:41:16 PM(UTC)
@breeminator is not so good in S1 class, those who can use that in S1 class to set top rivals time are peoples that set top rivals time in other cars also but most peoples are faster in S1 class when picking up pretty mutch any other car.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#8 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 2:53:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Vaporisor Go to Quoted Post
Well, lets enrichen this chat. Why is the boneshaker so powerful?
Low center of gravity?
Power?
Big traction tires?

Now PI is supposed to be is supposed to be the balancer, but cause of mathematics and car sizes, etc, there will always be something that has a minute advantage. So is the boneshaker actually all powerful or it is a meta accepted as such?

Thing about meta and a balanced game is that usually it isnt all powerful and only works from people not looking at alternative or why. Often started because somebody says it is best and perhaps marginally is. Then minmaxers or other people invested pick it up followed by hype train. Result is a large number of users so higher odds of seeing it on podium just from the odds.

Now in racing, physical size really makes a difference because it gives more room for movement from side to side. Autocross this is a massive thing because for example in a slalom, a narrow car needs less side to side motion to clear but still doesnt mean its actual handling is as good. Perhaps this is part of the case with boneshaker?

I am assuming though that all PI is calculated from something related to the stats used in physics. If it actually does get an easy and quantifiable advantage, then how the PI in general needs to be looked at.

So I recommend not just putting out boneshaker is a problem, but why? What advantage in racing does it get not possible with other cars? What tune/configuration is broken?

I have tested more than 50 cars in A class and the Bone Shaker is pulling significantly faster lap times than all of them.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 3:28:50 PM(UTC)
Which supports that something is imbalanced. But the important part is why. What do you consider significantly faster?

At that point if it is now able to be verified there are faster times, where is that time coming from? Can work to pinpoint what exactly makes it faster and where it can gain the leads. So this will show where a PI weighting imbalance is occuring. Theory only goes so far vs overall values in the races overall.

Example of applied is from the rip rod pvp. PI accounting for handling braking etc offered little in drag racing so two cars had an advantage because they had the least PI from these values.

So with the state of racing, perhaps the boneshaker has that little bit of minmax that isnt weighted enough for the game on the hole. One way to test is with a few different tracks that each have a different type of racing, and see what cars consistently time best and their common traits.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#10 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 3:56:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Vaporisor Go to Quoted Post
Which supports that something is imbalanced. But the important part is why. What do you consider significantly faster?


I build pontiac today and while i was testing that at bamburg i lap 57,3s time i think this is actually pretty fast as most A800 cars do abaout 58-59s and cars like daytona, gto, gt40 do abaout 57-57,5 with bone shaker allready standing lap 57,4 and flying lap 55,5. At holyrood park circuit i did abaout 1,11,2 with daytona in rivals mode after 20 laps, 5 lap with bone shaker and fastest lap 1,09,7.

One reason why bone shaker is unbalance because PI stats counts wide rear tires as negative thing. And also bone shaker is car that hugely benefit awd swap, if swaping back to rwd bone shaker PI would raise to 800 -->808 and when example daytona swaping back to rwd PI goes down to 795.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 6 users liked this post.
#11 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 4:10:33 PM(UTC)
If the Bone Shaker is nerfed, then another car would become the leaderboard car and replace it.
Still learning to tune. Probably will always be learning. If anyone wants a decent track tune, message me on Xbox.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 6:02:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
@breeminator is not so good in S1 class, those who can use that in S1 class to set top rivals time are peoples that set top rivals time in other cars also but most peoples are faster in S1 class when picking up pretty mutch any other car.

Just had a go at that FI S1 rivals with my own tune of the Bone Shaker. I see the problem it has, my tune is 881 PI, you either have that sort of PI with the stock engine, or swap the engine and then have problems keeping it down to 900. It just doesn't happily work at 900. But it may well be the best 881 PI car in the game. I tried to beat that time with the '08 Viper and '92 NSX-R, but didn't manage it, though I felt like I would manage it with enough laps, but the Bone Shaker lap could have been a bit better as well.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#13 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 7:01:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Godhydra Go to Quoted Post
If the Bone Shaker is nerfed, then another car would become the leaderboard car and replace it.


yeap the daytona but the rest is pretty balanced .. the daytona and the bone shaker are OP because there power weith ratio is crasy low for their handling .. the ratio is in S1 territory
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#14 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 9:57:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Vaporisor Go to Quoted Post
Which supports that something is imbalanced. But the important part is why. What do you consider significantly faster?

At that point if it is now able to be verified there are faster times, where is that time coming from? Can work to pinpoint what exactly makes it faster and where it can gain the leads. So this will show where a PI weighting imbalance is occuring. Theory only goes so far vs overall values in the races overall.

Example of applied is from the rip rod pvp. PI accounting for handling braking etc offered little in drag racing so two cars had an advantage because they had the least PI from these values.

So with the state of racing, perhaps the boneshaker has that little bit of minmax that isnt weighted enough for the game on the hole. One way to test is with a few different tracks that each have a different type of racing, and see what cars consistently time best and their common traits.

The PI system is severely broken, it values top speed and turning radius way to high, and acceleration way to low. The Bone Shaker has a bad top speed, a terrible turning radius when AWD swapped, and great acceleration, also it's wide and low to the ground which makes it extremely stable. That's why it's so OP.
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Godhydra Go to Quoted Post
If the Bone Shaker is nerfed, then another car would become the leaderboard car and replace it.


yeap the daytona but the rest is pretty balanced .. the daytona and the bone shaker are OP because there power weith ratio is crasy low for their handling .. the ratio is in S1 territory

Don't forget the TZ2.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 11:16:27 PM(UTC)
My way to see it, in FH3 boneshaker had almost the same characteristic but it was ultimately difficult to make it turn without using the e-brake. in FH4, this limitation is almost gone, you get a car that is able to pass from last position to first in the first 500m of a the race and turn handling has very few equivalents. Its only bottlenecks are top speed and vulnerability to ramming ( since very light) but from the second you get out of the crowd, very difficult to catch up, not impossible, but overall, you will need twice the effort you would do for any other car.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#16 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 11:30:16 PM(UTC)
It's not the car, it's the pilot and the tuning.
I have beaten it using a Hoonigan Nova in A class.
I actually have 2 of them, and I can be beaten.

Some stats.
Bone Shaker: 1 & 2
Top Speed: 170.0
0-60: 2.563
222 Races
73 Podiums
22 Wins
*Car was S1 until recently

Top Speed: 172.5
0-60: 2.356
261 Races
88 Podiums
47 Wins

Napalm Nova:
Top Speed: 175.0
0-60: 2.545
228 Races
68 Podiums
19 Wins

Gremlin X:
Top Speed: 150.1
0-60: 3.818
285 Races
61 Podiums
19 Wins

They are AWD A class mostly tuned for dirt racing, but do work well in the rain in road races.

One thing about that Bone Shaker, it don't like to turn, I spent close to 3 hours at the festival circuit track tuning that thing to make tight turns on wet roads.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2019 11:45:52 PM(UTC)
I don't have the Boneshaker, but I am happy with the A class already, I don't want the game made easier for me. So I don't want the Boneshaker even though I don't have it. In other words... get rid of it!

Edited by user Monday, February 18, 2019 11:46:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 12:05:49 AM(UTC)
Yes, do something... give it nitro!
Welcome to the Hyperbolic Whine Chamber. If you cry hard enough you might get your pouter level over 9000.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 12:49:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ti Hsien Go to Quoted Post
Yes, do something... give it nitro!

Yes. Nitrous oxide AND nitromethane, all while keeping it in A class.
Rank: Driver's License
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 3:36:02 AM(UTC)
My tuned BMW M5 Class A beats Boneshakers, as well as my tuned Nissian Titan Warrior Class A beats the other Class A cancer, the Ford Raptor. You gotta look for & tune alternatives 😊
Rank: Driver's License
#21 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 5:22:05 AM(UTC)
Also my 300 SL Coupe Class A has beaten Bone Shakers online as well. It's launch & accelation is crazy while it's handling & braking is decent.

Just got to be a bit more cautious with the throttle on the 1954 300 SL & you should have no problem getting podiums with it or at least close to a podium like 4th or 5th.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#22 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 6:58:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
My tuned BMW M5 Class A beats Boneshakers, as well as my tuned Nissian Titan Warrior Class A beats the other Class A cancer, the Ford Raptor. You gotta look for & tune alternatives 😊


I've beaten people in A class who use Boneshakers, it doesn't mean the cars I've used to do it are better though.
Rank: Driver's License
#23 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 7:34:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
My tuned BMW M5 Class A beats Boneshakers, as well as my tuned Nissian Titan Warrior Class A beats the other Class A cancer, the Ford Raptor. You gotta look for & tune alternatives 😊


I've beaten people in A class who use Boneshakers, it doesn't mean the cars I've used to do it are better though.


For me it's better, because before my M5 I would barely beat Bone Shakers and be frusturated like OP, but now I beat them almost every time with it in Class A.

Here's my only video edvidence of it. Excuse the bad driving, I was angry and in a rush at this point because some dunce intentionally rammed off & made me miss a checkpoint when i was originally in first. It's ok though, because I came back Fri last after the redrawn which is where the video starts, and returned back to 1st & won. I pulled through them all in the clip pretty easily as well, & there a Bone Shaker in the match who ends up in 2nd place at the end behind me:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoNgSK_W84IXbbrOQiXfTQ7pyHo


My 1950's 300 SL Benz is also an A Class None Shaker "destroyer" as well like my BMW M5. It also beats Bone Shakers most of the time & or has better accelation, less weight, & similar HP to my M5, but it has a bit worse handling & brakes than my M5 while also not being that good on snowy roads. Literal performance numbers aside, (i dont even onow the Bone Shakers stats or weight) besides those two "bone destroyers" of mine, other Class A cars i use competitively dont beat bone shakers or catch podiums as much as those two for me personally.

I don't know about stat wise, but I do know in actual races with actual people I do better most of time with those two against them than other cars I've used & tried.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:51:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:18:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
My tuned BMW M5 Class A beats Boneshakers, as well as my tuned Nissian Titan Warrior Class A beats the other Class A cancer, the Ford Raptor. You gotta look for & tune alternatives 😊


I've beaten people in A class who use Boneshakers, it doesn't mean the cars I've used to do it are better though.


For me it's better, because before my M5 I would barely beat Bone Shakers and be frusturated like OP, but now I beat them almost every time with it in Class A.

Here's my only video edvidence of it. Excuse the bad driving, I was angry and in a rush at this point because some dunce intentionally rammed off & made me miss a checkpoint when i was originally in first. It's ok though, because I came back Fri last after the redrawn which is where the video starts, and returned back to 1st & won. I pulled through them all in the clip pretty easily as well, & there a Bone Shaker in the match who ends up in 2nd place at the end behind me:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoNgSK_W84IXbbrOQiXfTQ7pyHo


My 1950's 300 SL Benz is also an A Class None Shaker "destroyer" as well like my BMW M5. It also beats Bone Shakers most of the time & or has better accelation, less weight, & similar HP to my M5, but it has a bit worse handling & brakes than my M5 while also not being that good on snowy roads. Literal performance numbers aside, (i dont even onow the Bone Shakers stats or weight) besides those two "bone destroyers" of mine, other Class A cars i use competitively dont beat bone shakers or catch podiums as much as those two for me personally.

I don't know about stat wise, but I do know in actual races with actual people I do better most of time with those two against them than other cars I've used & tried.


Just watched that (I copy and pasted the full link) and yeah nice wall-riding :p (I do it too.) Inconclusive from that video tbh, not a high skilled lobby. Looks like anyone half decent in any vaguely competitive car who got to the front would win that.

I'm looking forward very much to trying my first Boneshaker on Thursday but if they understeer like people are saying, I doubt I'll be using it much - I hate cars which won't turn. We'll see. For now my go to cars are the Daytona and Honda NSX '05.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:20:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#25 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2019 10:46:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
My tuned BMW M5 Class A beats Boneshakers, as well as my tuned Nissian Titan Warrior Class A beats the other Class A cancer, the Ford Raptor. You gotta look for & tune alternatives 😊


I've beaten people in A class who use Boneshakers, it doesn't mean the cars I've used to do it are better though.


For me it's better, because before my M5 I would barely beat Bone Shakers and be frusturated like OP, but now I beat them almost every time with it in Class A.

Here's my only video edvidence of it. Excuse the bad driving, I was angry and in a rush at this point because some dunce intentionally rammed off & made me miss a checkpoint when i was originally in first. It's ok though, because I came back Fri last after the redrawn which is where the video starts, and returned back to 1st & won. I pulled through them all in the clip pretty easily as well, & there a Bone Shaker in the match who ends up in 2nd place at the end behind me:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoNgSK_W84IXbbrOQiXfTQ7pyHo


My 1950's 300 SL Benz is also an A Class None Shaker "destroyer" as well like my BMW M5. It also beats Bone Shakers most of the time & or has better accelation, less weight, & similar HP to my M5, but it has a bit worse handling & brakes than my M5 while also not being that good on snowy roads. Literal performance numbers aside, (i dont even onow the Bone Shakers stats or weight) besides those two "bone destroyers" of mine, other Class A cars i use competitively dont beat bone shakers or catch podiums as much as those two for me personally.

I don't know about stat wise, but I do know in actual races with actual people I do better most of time with those two against them than other cars I've used & tried.


Just watched that (I copy and pasted the full link) and yeah nice wall-riding :p (I do it too.) Inconclusive from that video tbh, not a high skilled lobby. Looks like anyone half decent in any vaguely competitive car who got to the front would win that.

I'm looking forward very much to trying my first Boneshaker on Thursday but if they understeer like people are saying, I doubt I'll be using it much - I hate cars which won't turn. We'll see. For now my go to cars are the Daytona and Honda NSX '05.


I respect it, i suggest trying it out though, the '88 M5 model, because it works at least for me. And same, I am too to try it. I probably won't be using it much though online I cringe when there's a lobby full of bone shakers or Ford Raptors, and don't want to add to that lmao. I used a Ford Raptor one time & the lobby was full with 6 others, I felt so ashamed haha. That's when I created my Nissian Titan "Raptor destroyer". Not great launch or top speed like the Raptor but it's better in handling & Acceleration with a bit of a lighter weight iirc.

And yeah, most of the time I brake correctly & everything, but I was so frusturated & seeing red at that moment that I just smashed the throttle for the most part for the last half of the race lol. There was two guys that kept trying to ram me off during the whole championship, I'm the video you can still see them trying to ram me when I was making my comeback. Wallriding is so broken though it's crazy how it seems to shoot some cars off like a rocket.

SUV & especially truck users are the worse, even though I also use them sometimes haha, but I don't ram anyone on purpose with any car!

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