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Rank: Driver's Permit
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#51 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 1:40:08 AM(UTC)
So how it's look like

1. Forzathon weekly challenge - 200FP (400FP with house)
2. Daily Forzathon - 7x 20FP (140FP) + 60FP bonus = 200FP

So it's 600FP. I don't have time and xbox live gold to make more points. It's very disappointing...

600FP for single car should be max - like Hummer H1 last week.

Reason that people don't spend FP on super and wheelspins are duplicate cars which can't be sold directly like FH3. Auction house is full of everything...

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#52 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 2:09:33 AM(UTC)
I've believed from the start, coming into FH4 fresh not knowing this was a thing in FH3 or FM7, time-locked or any type of exclusive cars are shady.

I'd go further, too, and say, 10 million is too much for autoshow cars. Everything about the "economy" is blown out of proportion. If the gameplay is good.. driving, tuning, racing, drifting, player interactions, multiplayer, singleplayer (hello AI), etc... none of that business is remotely necessary to keep players interested. I've put hundreds of hours into games with a fraction of the polish and/or features because the game itself is honest and plays well in it's own right. That's all a game needs.

Edited by user Friday, February 8, 2019 2:22:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
#53 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 2:19:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreatFlea815883 Go to Quoted Post
I've believed from the start, coming into FH4 fresh not knowing this was a thing in FH3 or FM7, time-locked or any type of exclusive cars are shady.

I'd go further, too, and say, 10 million is too much for autoshow cars. Everything about the "economy" is blown out of proportion. If the gameplay is good.. driving, tuning, racing, drifting, player interactions, multiplayer, singleplayer (hello AI), etc... none of that business is remotely necessary to keep players interested. I've put hundreds of hours into games with a fraction of the polish and/or features because the game itself is honest and plays well in it's own right. That's all a game needs.


they are using real life values for cars in the autoshow, something they stuffed up in FM7
just have a look in fh3

time locked and exclusive cars have been around since FM2 over 10 years ago on the xbox 360

My cats don't like being moderated
Watch out they bite 😠😠
Rank: Driver's License
 2 users liked this post.
#54 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 2:21:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreatFlea815883 Go to Quoted Post
I've believed from the start, coming into FH4 fresh not knowing this was a thing in FH3 or FM7, time-locked or any type of exclusive cars are shady.

I'd go further, too, and say, 10 million is too much for autoshow cars. Everything about the "economy" is blown out of proportion. If the gameplay is good.. driving, tuning, racing, drifting, player interactions, multiplayer, singleplayer (hello AI), etc... none of that business is remotely necessary to keep players interested. I've put hundreds of hours into games with a fraction of the polish and/or features because the game itself is honest and plays well in it's own right. That's all a game needs.


Generally I'm with you, but hey, welcome to the age of "games as a service", where single-player based games keep you playing by offering fragments of content in incremental steps.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#55 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 2:25:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: platzh1rsch Go to Quoted Post
Generally I'm with you, but hey, welcome to the age of "games as a service", where single-player based games keep you playing by offering fragments of content in incremental steps.


It's the video-game equivalent of high sugar and MSG content. Manipulative, and ultimately destructive to the consumer. I'm glad I lived out my formative years with games made to be played, not made to play the players. If I had children I wouldn't let them play FH4. < thinking about this further, I wouldn't recommend most young people bother with most video games period ever.. different subject, regardless that point is effectively moot if I were to split hairs

Edited by user Friday, February 8, 2019 2:32:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#56 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 3:51:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MG84PL Go to Quoted Post
So how it's look like

1. Forzathon weekly challenge - 200FP (400FP with house)
2. Daily Forzathon - 7x 20FP (140FP) + 60FP bonus = 200FP

So it's 600FP. I don't have time and xbox live gold to make more points. It's very disappointing...

600FP for single car should be max - like Hummer H1 last week.

Reason that people don't spend FP on super and wheelspins are duplicate cars which can't be sold directly like FH3. Auction house is full of everything...


No

With Vip House (double forzathon point)
1. Forzathon weekly challenge - 200FP
2. Daily Forzathon - 7x 20FP (140FP) + 60FP bonus = 200FP
Total=400FP

Without Vip House it's the half (100+7x10+30=200)

So if you don't have the XBL gold and you can not participate in Forzathon Live your max FPs in a week are 200 or 400 with Vip House (5M CR)
Rank: Driver's License
#57 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 3:55:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreatFlea815883 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: platzh1rsch Go to Quoted Post
Generally I'm with you, but hey, welcome to the age of "games as a service", where single-player based games keep you playing by offering fragments of content in incremental steps.


It's the video-game equivalent of high sugar and MSG content. Manipulative, and ultimately destructive to the consumer. I'm glad I lived out my formative years with games made to be played, not made to play the players. If I had children I wouldn't let them play FH4. < thinking about this further, I wouldn't recommend most young people bother with most video games period ever.. different subject, regardless that point is effectively moot if I were to split hairs


I'm with you and my guess is that you're somewhere in your 30s aswell..

Although if done right, the whole concept of "games of a service" could actually be beneficial for the players.

Also, let's not act as if there hadn't always been reasons and ways to spend unhealthy amounts of time with videogames.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#58 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 4:06:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: platzh1rsch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GreatFlea815883 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: platzh1rsch Go to Quoted Post
Generally I'm with you, but hey, welcome to the age of "games as a service", where single-player based games keep you playing by offering fragments of content in incremental steps.


It's the video-game equivalent of high sugar and MSG content. Manipulative, and ultimately destructive to the consumer. I'm glad I lived out my formative years with games made to be played, not made to play the players. If I had children I wouldn't let them play FH4. < thinking about this further, I wouldn't recommend most young people bother with most video games period ever.. different subject, regardless that point is effectively moot if I were to split hairs


I'm with you and my guess is that you're somewhere in your 30s aswell..

Although if done right, the whole concept of "games of a service" could actually be beneficial for the players.

Also, let's not act as if there hadn't always been reasons and ways to spend unhealthy amounts of time with videogames.


Not quite (yet), I don't understand what you mean? And.. yes. I resented saying that and edited it out until I noticed someone quoted it..

On topic though.. the price of shop cars was right when they were 150/300. Now it's getting ridiculous. I bet, even if a few players grind FT points to flip Bone Shakers, they will continue to be rare, there will still be players searching constantly for them on the auction house a week later. Nothing like when they gave everyone Moslers.

Edited by user Friday, February 8, 2019 4:49:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
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#59 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 5:23:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post
The reason for the increase is due to the data collected regarding the average amount of FP that each player currently has.
Also because we want players to enjoy the cars when purchased from the #Forzathon shop as a luxury or worked for (via the challenges) reward.


Why do not you think about people who are not GOLD members?

Do you know that 800FP is the result of playing for several weeks for them?

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Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#60 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 5:48:15 AM(UTC)
"The user is forced to do an event (eg Forzathon)" in order to obtain the desired car hurts the enjoyment of the Forza series.
No one wants Forza Horizon 4 to repeat the same mistake.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#61 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 6:57:42 AM(UTC)
RK mentioned each player's average ownership point as one of the reasons.
As we know, one of the reasons we saved points is the baddest line-ups of Forzathon shop of December.

I am a little anxious from this precedent.
If inflation continues in the future as well, it will be impossible to buy a car freely by Forzathon shop.
And we will accumulate points. Why? It is because we do not know what price "really needed car" will be sold at what price.
As a result, PG continues to misunderstand. "They have a lot of points! We must raise the selling price of the car more!" And further inflation will continue. Welcome to "Forza Horizon 4: Zimbabwe expansion".

Of course this is my pessimistic speculation.
Community members of real PG will not be as silly as my guess and will cherish players. surely.
I think that cars in racing games are like characters of fighting game. Each player has his favorite character, and it is very painful not to be able to use that character.
I can understand that PG wants to give players a difficult challenge. However, the prize does not have to be a "normally" cars.
FH4 has clothes, emotes, and Forza Edition cars. Let's make these as prizes. I am enjoying FH4, but the pleasure of achieving the challenge can be experienced whatever the prize. Rather, when a favorite car is being made a prize, it feels like an obligation, I feel that the challenge is forced. To be honest, that is not much fun. It's like work.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#62 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 7:15:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ishisaka Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post
The reason for the increase is due to the data collected regarding the average amount of FP that each player currently has.
Also because we want players to enjoy the cars when purchased from the #Forzathon shop as a luxury or worked for (via the challenges) reward.


Why do not you think about people who are not GOLD members?

Do you know that 800FP is the result of playing for several weeks for them?



I had Gold for awhile but it was actually annoying, and worse than not having Gold. I was paying for something that gave the game negative playability. The game slowed down, the constant messages on the screen, and the Forzathon was repeating the same thing over, and over again. Solo is much better.

Rank: Driver's Permit
#63 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 8:38:24 AM(UTC)
I love this game, probably more than any Forza before it. Honestly though, the price increase has really felt like a punch in the gut. I get to play a few hours a week and have managed to get to star level 1 + 28 in that small amount of time. That said, there is no way I can afford these prices. I feel like I play more than the average guy and if I can't afford it, how in the hell can you expect the others that either are new to the game or get even less time than I do, to stand a chance?

I've wanted the Civic ever since I missed it the first time around for 150fp. Every single Wheel Spin or Super Wheel Spin I get has decided to give me small amounts of money or clothing I couldn't care less about (okay, not EVERY spin... but it sure feels like it when a Super gets you two bowler hats and some canvas shoes).

Maybe add another couple of events that people can do to acquire these points that doesn't include teaming up with others? Not everyone loves multiplayer games.

Thanks for listening.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#64 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 8:42:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gsxrboy750au Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post
The reason for the increase is due to the data collected regarding the average amount of FP that each player currently has.
Also because we want players to enjoy the cars when purchased from the #Forzathon shop as a luxury or worked for (via the challenges) reward.


So you're -

Actively punishing long term players who might have most/all the vehicles and have amassed lots of points because they play the game and can't spend them on anything they don't already have.
Actively punishing new players for the same above reason, with them not having all the cars/emotes/clothing.

That seems a fine idea.


This right here.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#65 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 9:00:20 AM(UTC)
I fall into the bucket of saved FP i have more then 6500 FP and yet have not bought anything in over a month main reason is i already have the cars offered.

So PG is saying that due to my saving FP they will punish any new players and keep hicking the price of FP cars.

Wow guess am sorry then everyone.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#66 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 9:40:42 AM(UTC)
i don't play forzathon so i do the daily challenges and the weekly challenge, a month a go it was enough to purchase a new car (not including a forza edition) now its not enough.
Because the challenges give my now 100 points for the weekly and 10 for the daily and 30 extra if you get 7 so i get 200 points this means that you now have to do this for four weeks for you can get the new honda civic, i don't get why they are doing this the point of this game is to get a feel of all sort of vehicles in the game and they are now making it impossible to drive new vehicles that are in the forzathon shop. Please forza listen to the community and give everybody the change to get those vehicles, i even bought the ultimate edition and i'm struggling to buy all vehicles.
Ooh yes and also i tried the auction house but nobody is ofcourse selling their civic 2018 version or other exclusive vehicles, and if they do so they make a livery so they can list them up for 20 mill.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#67 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 9:45:12 AM(UTC)
I can't afford both the cars this week, I just bought one of them.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#68 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 9:59:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bob Viper Ace Go to Quoted Post
I fall into the bucket of saved FP i have more then 6500 FP and yet have not bought anything in over a month main reason is i already have the cars offered.

So PG is saying that due to my saving FP they will punish any new players and keep hicking the price of FP cars.

Wow guess am sorry then everyone.


That's how I interpreted their comment, thanks a lot buddy.. haha,
Rank: Racing Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#69 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 10:08:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bob Viper Ace Go to Quoted Post
I fall into the bucket of saved FP i have more then 6500 FP and yet have not bought anything in over a month main reason is i already have the cars offered.

So PG is saying that due to my saving FP they will punish any new players and keep hicking the price of FP cars.

Wow guess am sorry then everyone.


Its not your fault (or anyone elses that saves their FP) for the price hike. PG created this market/economy problem by the decisions they made. They could have come up with many other solutions that wouldn't have created a bigger gap between the "rich" and the "poor" (in terms of FP). Here are just some quick options they could have gone with that wouldn't have created this issue:

1. Cap the FP you can have (this would force people near the cap to spend their FP on things like the wheelspins to stay under the cap and prevents them from building an infinite bank). Is there even an FP max (if there is, the current situation is a testament that the cap is too high)?

2. Keep the base cost of an exclusive vehicle reasonable for all players, then have the price increase for each additional purchase of that same car for a player. For example the 2018 Civic Type R starts at 150FP for everyone. If someone wants to buy a second one it doubles to 300FP, a third 600FP, a fourth 1200FP, etc. etc. this helps prevent people from buying huge chunks of exclusive vehicles and also helps reduce FP banks of "rich" players that do want to buy duplicates, triplicates, etc.

3. Provide additional desirable options to spend FP on so people aren't sitting on their FP waiting for something to use it on: Some quick thoughts on things:
- Promote a Tune, Livery, or Blue Print: spend 2000FP to have your Tune, Livery, or BP appear at the top of the list for 30 minutes. And only allow one person to do this per Car, or Race at a time, so people aren't pushed out of their 30 minute time slot - if a second person tries to promote their livery for a 2011 Ford Raptor, but someone already promoted theirs and has 15 minutes left on their promotion the second person trying to buy the promotion gets a message: "Sorry, a livery is currently in promotion with 15m:00s remaining. Please try again later."
- Use FP to provide boosts to Skill/Influence farming: spend 500FP to earn 3x skill points for 10 minutes.
- Use FP to purchase "status symbols": invest FP into a "bank" that creates a symbol next to player names much like a prestige star, VIP crown, club owner, or club admin. For every 2000FP invested into this "bank" your symbol reaches the next Tier. Maybe a treasure chest with a prestige number?

I am not saying I wish for this to happen and I am not submitting a ticket to suggest that this be implemented because I personally don't care about it. But if someone here wants to copy and paste or reword this as a suggestion or wish of their own go for it. I just wanted to point out that there are much better options than basing the price of something on the average monetary balance of a community. Imagine if things instead of being priced on the concept of supply and demand were priced based on the average persons income.... do you think that would bring the gap between rich and poor closer???? No, it would probably increase the homeless population exponentially and the rich would stay rich....
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#70 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 10:21:11 AM(UTC)
Kudos to RetroKrystal for coming in here and explaining things. That’s transparency and communication and it’s much appreciated.

Some feedback for the developers: I think it’s important to look at why players have a stockpile of Forzathon points instead of increasing the prices based on the high average. I believe it’s a lack of interesting/unique items in the store.

Sure it’s easy enough for players with Gold to get points via Forzathon Live but for players without it I’d imagine it’d be difficult.

Long story short I think more interesting shop items = players spending more points.

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Rank: D-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 10:29:42 AM(UTC)
I've also been hording around 3k forzathon points as I had everything offered each week for the last few weeks.

At 400fp I did get the Merc. It's unlockable from another 1.2m credit Merc in the autoshow so not that rare. You get 300k in the SL 65 perk tree so it's 900k to get this car any time. As I have perk points simple buy.

Wheelspin only cars at 600fp is fine with me. If you play enough you will unlock them all. If you buy a few that are really important to you in the shop then you won't get a dupe until you have all the WPO cars. I can live with that, you pay some premium points to grab a WPO car early.

Now the civic I have more of an issue with. 800fp is the only way to get this car and it's been very rare in the auction house even for snipers as there are so few changing hands. Where there is no other realistic way to get such a car and it's time limited then it's too expensive. As it happens I already had one but I still think the price for an exclusive, common car is way to high.

There are many people with forzathon points sitting around but that because they have the items offered. If you want to use up the FP the pop in some legendary cars worth 2m+ so it's just a choice of points now or credits later.

Edited by user Friday, February 8, 2019 10:31:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
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#72 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 10:41:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JurassicJoeDawg Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jadigafer7 Go to Quoted Post
Imagine how crazy some people might go if they blew their FP savings on the Honda Type R only to see a Bone Shaker show up the next week and they no longer have the FP to buy that... O.o


Lol.... now you have me worried about whether I can afford to buy this 2018 Civic and have enough time to farm FP in the off case you are right....


Yeah, this would add a whole 'nother level to the term "Buyer's Remorse" ;p

With FP being probably the most valued Forza Horizon 4 "monetary unit" as it is the most time consuming to grind (where CR and Skill Points are more easily obtained)... It definitely gives a feel of Buyer's Remorse to those that are tight on FP. Luckily in real life there are protections in place for these types of things: https://www.consumer.ftc...s-cooling-rule-may-help

Sarcasm incoming: maybe you can submit a ticket requesting two copies of a cancellation form in case you do get Buyer's Remorse and feel like changing your mind in the near future to get your FP back. (Although ironically the Cooling-Off Rule does not apply to online purchases or the purchase of vehicles, not sure about imaginary vehicles).

Edited by user Friday, February 8, 2019 10:57:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#73 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 12:48:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post
The reason for the increase is due to the data collected regarding the average amount of FP that each player currently has.
Also because we want players to enjoy the cars when purchased from the #Forzathon shop as a luxury or worked for (via the challenges) reward.


And that average is skewed by people who have both had the game since launch and grind out Forzathons every day, screwing over people who are newer to the game and don't have the time nor inclination to grind. Also a lot of the Forzathon Shop cars are pretty lame, and buying sparkly shorts or a dumb quick chat phrase is not something everyone wants to do, wheelspins are easy enough to get in game anyway and it's not really worth spending FPs on them for 1k credits, a t-shirt or yet another stupid quick chat phrase. Instead of artificially inflating the costs of the cars make the store more interesting, then people will spend their FPs.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#74 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 12:53:49 PM(UTC)
I am probably one of the few who dont have high levels of FP. Vip early access player who still enjoys forzathon. But I also know that buying regular wheelspins are just silly. I wondef how this wheelspin is better than supers came about. Superspins be great. Spun easily in the hundreds.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#75 Posted : Friday, February 8, 2019 1:19:05 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bob Viper Ace Go to Quoted Post
I fall into the bucket of saved FP i have more then 6500 FP and yet have not bought anything in over a month main reason is i already have the cars offered.

So PG is saying that due to my saving FP they will punish any new players and keep hicking the price of FP cars.

Wow guess am sorry then everyone.


I believe you are honestly in the minority (could be wrong though), which is why I would like Krystal to clarify what data set is she basing this on. PC is open to cheating and exploits, so I hope FP car costs are not based on PC at all.

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