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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#126 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:30:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Assetto Corsa on consoles doesnt have as much of a range as pcars but it still gives between 50 and 60. Something like this could surely be done in the future and i have a feeling it will in future titles.


We can only hope. The FFB options they've added in Horizon 3 are a great step forward. Lets hope the cockpit view gets the same sort of treatment.


Adding sliders doesnt fix broken ffb. Unless you consider a shattered vase that is taped back together fixed. It's a bandaid, dont let them off the hook.


They are making huge changes to the FFB for FM7...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#127 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:37:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Assetto Corsa on consoles doesnt have as much of a range as pcars but it still gives between 50 and 60. Something like this could surely be done in the future and i have a feeling it will in future titles.


We can only hope. The FFB options they've added in Horizon 3 are a great step forward. Lets hope the cockpit view gets the same sort of treatment.


Adding sliders doesnt fix broken ffb. Unless you consider a shattered vase that is taped back together fixed. It's a bandaid, dont let them off the hook.


They are making huge changes to the FFB for FM7...


We dont know if it huge or not only time will tell. The rumor only states that the guy has real world racing knowledge and has some experience with pc sims i think. Ffb still has to be coded by someone who knows how to do that well not drive a race car.

Like baby cow said adding sliders doesnt fix the shortcomings of the ffb as well as the physics for that matter. Horizon is an arcade game so some slack can be given but motorsport is strictly a track racer. Which side of the sim/arcade direction they go is not known as of yet and this will determine how much change we should expect.

Ideally the ffb will correlate directly with the physics engine like in assetto corsa. The problem with that is as far as i can guess the physics is suited more for a controller. I dont see a total revamp of the physics engine to accomadate wheels but major work does have to be done if they want wheel controls to feel more natural. It has always felt like an addition to me, like they did what they could, hopefully this changes.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#128 Posted : Wednesday, January 11, 2017 6:22:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post


We dont know if it huge or not only time will tell. The rumor only states that the guy has real world racing knowledge and has some experience with pc sims i think. Ffb still has to be coded by someone who knows how to do that well not drive a race car.

Like baby cow said adding sliders doesnt fix the shortcomings of the ffb as well as the physics for that matter. Horizon is an arcade game so some slack can be given but motorsport is strictly a track racer. Which side of the sim/arcade direction they go is not known as of yet and this will determine how much change we should expect.

Ideally the ffb will correlate directly with the physics engine like in assetto corsa. The problem with that is as far as i can guess the physics is suited more for a controller. I dont see a total revamp of the physics engine to accomadate wheels but major work does have to be done if they want wheel controls to feel more natural. It has always felt like an addition to me, like they did what they could, hopefully this changes.


I agree, just because they hired a new guy to do the ffb doesnt mean theres going to be a huge update. If forza 7 is slated to release in september and the new guy was hired around a month ago means he has 10 months to completely code the ffb because imo there was nothing from the previous ffb that should be kept. However like you said even if this is possible we still dont know how in depth the physics even is. My guess is it is quite simple. You have "3" tyres which are basically an input value for % of total available grip which doesnt really have slip angle calculated in, or any of the abrasives of a surface. As it is we know that they are only dealing with 1 set of track temps and 1 set of air temps per track, which makes me believe that it has no correlation to the actually tyre. Something like the alps should be hard to keep the tyres up to temp where somewhere like abu dhabi should be hard to get to cool down. There doesn't require any calculations for the surface temps etc because it is a constant value once you pick the track. There is no way that the same tune will work across all cars of the same drive type if the physics were making real calculations. All cars feel pretty much the same. So, id say even if this guy is the best ffb guy available, its still garbage in garbage out.

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#129 Posted : Wednesday, January 11, 2017 7:35:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post


We dont know if it huge or not only time will tell. The rumor only states that the guy has real world racing knowledge and has some experience with pc sims i think. Ffb still has to be coded by someone who knows how to do that well not drive a race car.

Like baby cow said adding sliders doesnt fix the shortcomings of the ffb as well as the physics for that matter. Horizon is an arcade game so some slack can be given but motorsport is strictly a track racer. Which side of the sim/arcade direction they go is not known as of yet and this will determine how much change we should expect.

Ideally the ffb will correlate directly with the physics engine like in assetto corsa. The problem with that is as far as i can guess the physics is suited more for a controller. I dont see a total revamp of the physics engine to accomadate wheels but major work does have to be done if they want wheel controls to feel more natural. It has always felt like an addition to me, like they did what they could, hopefully this changes.


I agree, just because they hired a new guy to do the ffb doesnt mean theres going to be a huge update. If forza 7 is slated to release in september and the new guy was hired around a month ago means he has 10 months to completely code the ffb because imo there was nothing from the previous ffb that should be kept. However like you said even if this is possible we still dont know how in depth the physics even is. My guess is it is quite simple. You have "3" tyres which are basically an input value for % of total available grip which doesnt really have slip angle calculated in, or any of the abrasives of a surface. As it is we know that they are only dealing with 1 set of track temps and 1 set of air temps per track, which makes me believe that it has no correlation to the actually tyre. Something like the alps should be hard to keep the tyres up to temp where somewhere like abu dhabi should be hard to get to cool down. There doesn't require any calculations for the surface temps etc because it is a constant value once you pick the track. There is no way that the same tune will work across all cars of the same drive type if the physics were making real calculations. All cars feel pretty much the same. So, id say even if this guy is the best ffb guy available, its still garbage in garbage out.


Loke i said only time will tell. Physics wise i dont see them going crazy with tire temps. That also wont effect the ffb too much. The thing i think forza is lacking is suspension feedback. If you play pcars, assetto corsa or dirt rally suspension ffb is present where forza doesnt seem to do anything other than jerk the wheel when transitioning from tarmac to offroad.

I think they're gonna go a similiar route as dirt rally which still uses canned effects but obviously much better. But if you look at that game they had ffb issues as well in early access, but than hired an outside guy with ffb experience and in my eyes literally transformed that game into what it is today in a few short months. It can be done as long as they care to do so.

It seems as though they are interested in fixing it. I think when it comes down to it, although there are other issues, ffb and wheel controls are their biggest shortcoming. With their interest in pc gaming now apparent it only makes sense to work on issues such as these.

I dont think itd be smart to go all out sim. Forza should stay forza but options to make things more hardcore should be just as available as options to make it accessible. I think theyve already made it as accessible as any racing game could be so it's time they give the hardcore players some love and i really think they will.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#130 Posted : Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:14:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post


We dont know if it huge or not only time will tell. The rumor only states that the guy has real world racing knowledge and has some experience with pc sims i think. Ffb still has to be coded by someone who knows how to do that well not drive a race car.

Like baby cow said adding sliders doesnt fix the shortcomings of the ffb as well as the physics for that matter. Horizon is an arcade game so some slack can be given but motorsport is strictly a track racer. Which side of the sim/arcade direction they go is not known as of yet and this will determine how much change we should expect.

Ideally the ffb will correlate directly with the physics engine like in assetto corsa. The problem with that is as far as i can guess the physics is suited more for a controller. I dont see a total revamp of the physics engine to accomadate wheels but major work does have to be done if they want wheel controls to feel more natural. It has always felt like an addition to me, like they did what they could, hopefully this changes.


I agree, just because they hired a new guy to do the ffb doesnt mean theres going to be a huge update. If forza 7 is slated to release in september and the new guy was hired around a month ago means he has 10 months to completely code the ffb because imo there was nothing from the previous ffb that should be kept. However like you said even if this is possible we still dont know how in depth the physics even is. My guess is it is quite simple. You have "3" tyres which are basically an input value for % of total available grip which doesnt really have slip angle calculated in, or any of the abrasives of a surface. As it is we know that they are only dealing with 1 set of track temps and 1 set of air temps per track, which makes me believe that it has no correlation to the actually tyre. Something like the alps should be hard to keep the tyres up to temp where somewhere like abu dhabi should be hard to get to cool down. There doesn't require any calculations for the surface temps etc because it is a constant value once you pick the track. There is no way that the same tune will work across all cars of the same drive type if the physics were making real calculations. All cars feel pretty much the same. So, id say even if this guy is the best ffb guy available, its still garbage in garbage out.


Loke i said only time will tell. Physics wise i dont see them going crazy with tire temps. That also wont effect the ffb too much. The thing i think forza is lacking is suspension feedback. If you play pcars, assetto corsa or dirt rally suspension ffb is present where forza doesnt seem to do anything other than jerk the wheel when transitioning from tarmac to offroad.

I think they're gonna go a similiar route as dirt rally which still uses canned effects but obviously much better. But if you look at that game they had ffb issues as well in early access, but than hired an outside guy with ffb experience and in my eyes literally transformed that game into what it is today in a few short months. It can be done as long as they care to do so.

It seems as though they are interested in fixing it. I think when it comes down to it, although there are other issues, ffb and wheel controls are their biggest shortcoming. With their interest in pc gaming now apparent it only makes sense to work on issues such as these.

I dont think itd be smart to go all out sim. Forza should stay forza but options to make things more hardcore should be just as available as options to make it accessible. I think theyve already made it as accessible as any racing game could be so it's time they give the hardcore players some love and i really think they will.

The FFB in FH3 while still broken is much better then FM6. While the Slider don't fix this FFB, they do add an element of personal preference to the wheel. Saying that from what I've heard the CEO of Fanatec had a meeting with turn 10 and turn 10 hired a new wheel guy, so with the progress turn 10 have made and this news I am pretty hopeful tbh. We dont know how complicated Turn 10's physics are but I do believe that FH3 had an advanced physics model compared to FM6 in terms of suspension to accommodate small cars and 3 wheelers. I also feel like the tire temperatures are more realistic then FM6, at least they seem to respond more realistically to influences.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#131 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2017 6:09:43 AM(UTC)
So the more arcade game of the 2 has the more advanced physics model? Now were getting somewhere :rolleyes:

It would make sense that fh3 has better ffb because its all canned garbage. People like canned garbage because they are getting cool effects... things you wouldn't normally feel in the wheel but would normally feel in ur butt yet interpreted by your hands.

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#132 Posted : Thursday, January 12, 2017 4:53:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
So the more arcade game of the 2 has the more advanced physics model? Now were getting somewhere :rolleyes:

It would make sense that fh3 has better ffb because its all canned garbage. People like canned garbage because they are getting cool effects... things you wouldn't normally feel in the wheel but would normally feel in ur butt yet interpreted by your hands.

I agree with your point but to me at least things are moving forward. The physics and ffb have been relatively the same since FM4 (excluding FM5 and it's magic camber lol) but FM4, H1, FM6 and FH2 all feel kinda related but FH3 kinda feels like its pushing forward at least a little which is nice and hopefully this really gets going for FM7.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#133 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2017 5:31:07 AM(UTC)
I think it makes sense to experiement with the physics and FFB in Horizon because no one really expects Horizon to stick to the same amount of "realism" as Motorsport. So you do your little tweaks and changes in Horizon, see how people react and then adjust your physics and FFB in Motorsport where it really matters.

I think that's always been the idea behind Horizon. To mess around with different ideas in Forza by just tossing them into Horizon and seeing how people react and how well the technology holds up.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#134 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2017 6:45:05 AM(UTC)
This is a FOV and POS thread.
Why talking about physics and FFB?!
Pointless

Edited by user Friday, January 13, 2017 6:48:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#135 Posted : Friday, January 13, 2017 7:03:13 AM(UTC)
This Whole thread should be added to forza horizon wishlist..

Edited by user Friday, January 13, 2017 10:26:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#136 Posted : Sunday, November 18, 2018 11:12:43 AM(UTC)
Do you guys know if any changes has been made about FOV and virtual Wheel out of the cockpit view?

I hope so!
Rank: Racing Permit
#137 Posted : Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:56:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: jappydriver Go to Quoted Post
Do you guys know if any changes has been made about FOV and virtual Wheel out of the cockpit view?

I hope so!


I was wondering the exact same thing,.. Thinking about reinstalling Fh3 for my multiplayer horizon fix,. But having a virtual steering wheel kinda breaks immersion for me. (As a wheel user)

Thanks in advance!
Rank: Racing Permit
#138 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2019 11:57:15 PM(UTC)
my brief thoughts on horizon 3/4's fov:

i personally feel its much better than fm7. cockpit views in 7 look really stretched out and far away whereas the perspective looks just about right in h4. however, that being said, i do feel that the camera sits too high in some cars (mostly the case with h4). the zoom level is correct for most cars, but the camera height may need to be lowered.

i also wish that the gopro style fov for external views is something they will do away with in future games because it makes everything look really tiny, especially in 4k. instead use the correct fov so that distances around corners can be accurately judged and add effects to give a good sense of speed.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 9, 2019 11:58:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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