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#426 Posted : Saturday, December 15, 2018 4:07:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BadDog1966 Go to Quoted Post

The second problem is the unskilled cutters and dive bombers that think they've accomplished something by getting good times far exceeding their skill. The penalties WILL help with that one since they actually do have some level of attention span and a desire to place better. At least it places some corrective pressure on those people who are trying to at least place well.


i would highly recomend that this system is implemented to singleplayer too - so players learn to drive better and r prepaired for Multiplayer races

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#427 Posted : Friday, December 28, 2018 9:33:36 AM(UTC)
From the like posted earlier. Looks very interesting. Hope they get it out soon. FM7 multiplayer has really gone downhill.
https://youtu.be/oajxyjOBI00?t=5221 (or start at 1h 27min for the FRR (Forza Race Regulations?) demo).

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#428 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2018 11:48:49 PM(UTC)
I just really hope we have access to the tyre barrier-less versions of the tracks in single player. I hate having walls placed across corners simply because it's not like that in real life. I will understand if the race regs don't come to single player till a later date (maybe when we get new AI), but I want to not have the tyre-barriers in corners in single player as soon as race regs go live for realism's sake.
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#429 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2018 8:29:40 AM(UTC)
I like the 1/2/3 level system that gets more extreme as you continue to receive penalties. I also feel like if you exceed getting any 5 penalties at all - or maybe over 2 seconds worth of penalty time, the next offense you should also begin to get a ghosted power cut for 1 or 2 seconds. I feel that repeat offenders should/would be placed in the back of the pack this way and allow for a fair race position placement at the end of a race.

I like how the penalties are scaled to the offense - i'd assume power cuts would also be scaled accordingly.

Good stuff - can't wait for this to get out to us - and yes please get rid of the tires all over the track.

Edited by user Monday, December 31, 2018 10:42:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#430 Posted : Wednesday, January 2, 2019 9:53:52 AM(UTC)
Race Regulations look like they're coming along nicely. I'm disappointed that they will only be in multiplayer first (they did say it could come to Free Play and Campaign later, but would probably need some new AI to make it work).

I'm really interested to see what the actual version looks like. They said they're still fiddling with various rulesets and severity ratings and stuff, so the way it works could be pretty differnt from the version shown in that stream. Still looks like it will be a very powerful tool for helping address problematic behaviors in online racing.

Also pretty psyched that they are very interested in some kind of "racing school" that could educate players about racecraft and sportsmanship.
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#431 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2019 2:31:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Race Regulations look like they're coming along nicely. I'm disappointed that they will only be in multiplayer first (they did say it could come to Free Play and Campaign later, but would probably need some new AI to make it work).

I'm really interested to see what the actual version looks like. They said they're still fiddling with various rulesets and severity ratings and stuff, so the way it works could be pretty differnt from the version shown in that stream. Still looks like it will be a very powerful tool for helping address problematic behaviors in online racing.

Also pretty psyched that they are very interested in some kind of "racing school" that could educate players about racecraft and sportsmanship.


Thats right, but in my opinion they enter from the wrong side. In freeplay and carrier mode players should learn the rules and sportsmaship so they would enter multiplayer as skilled drivers.
At the moment multiplayer is the harvest of the singleplayer seed. If your allowed to break all (real racing) rules to make a win you use it - with this learned why should they act different in MP?

Edited by user Tuesday, January 8, 2019 2:33:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#432 Posted : Tuesday, January 15, 2019 12:26:22 PM(UTC)
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.

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#433 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:19:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.

FRR will get here when they get here.

Why do people get so bent out of shape when they hype themselves up for a feature that has never had an official release date announced? You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago. It takes an incredible amount of time to add something as complex as the FRR. I'm glad they're taking the time to do it right. They've proved that the code works (as they have demonstrated development builds of the FRR on ForzaMonthly streams) and now they are zeroing in on how it should be implemented. This is not a quick process, it takes a lot of trial and error and testing to make sure it behaves the way they want it to.
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#434 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 5:23:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.


You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago.


Then you missed what T10 said at E3 2017. Go find an article called "Forza Motorsport 7 to feature Adjudication System to Discourage Corner-Cutting & Crashing"

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#435 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 9:52:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.


You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago.


Then you missed what T10 said at E3 2017. Go find an article called "Forza Motorsport 7 to feature Adjudication System to Discourage Corner-Cutting & Crashing"



Turn10 never officially said anything about that until very recently. The only article I could find that stated that was the one from AR12Gaming. I tend to confirm news I hear from several outlets, rather than take 1 publication's word on it. I highly doubt something as highly anticipated as a full penalty system would be whispered to a single organization behind closed doors. T10 and Microsoft would have had a presentation to more news outlets had that been the case.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 16, 2019 9:54:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#436 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 10:47:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.


You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago.


Then you missed what T10 said at E3 2017. Go find an article called "Forza Motorsport 7 to feature Adjudication System to Discourage Corner-Cutting & Crashing"



Turn10 never officially said anything about that until very recently. The only article I could find that stated that was the one from AR12Gaming. I tend to confirm news I hear from several outlets, rather than take 1 publication's word on it. I highly doubt something as highly anticipated as a full penalty system would be whispered to a single organization behind closed doors. T10 and Microsoft would have had a presentation to more news outlets had that been the case.


If T10 only come up with this idea just a few months ago then that would make it so much worse. I'm trying to convince myself that it just takes a lot of time to implement a penalty system that actually works.
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#437 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 12:06:47 PM(UTC)
I see 2 race regulation possibilities that seem like they would be easy to implement into the game and solve 2 of the biggest issues with online multiplayer.

1. Regardless of how it happen if all 4 tires left the track limits you are respawned to where you left the track. (No one will like this but) With the new physics and how much harder it is to push another vehicle around maybe you should have given more room or not put yourself in the position you ended up in, like trying to pass when you shouldn't have been. Of course there will be situations that are out of your control but I find that I could have prevented the wreck I ended up in.

2. Impact meter - if a vehicle runs into another vehicle with a impact above a certain level, that vehicle is respawned after a 2 or 3 second delay to a point before the impact point. Players that are only in the lobby to run into others, I don't see how to stop them unless you add limit to the number of impacts a player can have been being removed from the lobby.
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#438 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 12:10:31 PM(UTC)
This thread is 8 months old, who thought it would take this long??
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#439 Posted : Wednesday, January 16, 2019 3:25:33 PM(UTC)
I can't count high enough to indicate the number of times folks have asked for just ghosting back markers when they are lapped The functionality clearly exists since we have ghosts in other context, and the game clearly knows what lap each car is on.

One and DONE that eliminates the worst offenders, that being the dedicated rammers often called "griefers". They might get one good ram in, and then all or most everyone is past them by the time they recover. Most can't actually drive, so there's a decent chance they don't get any successful hits, basically leaving just the turn one fiasco. And even if they aren't completely useless drivers, the time taken to recover from a ram almost certainly puts them at or near the back of the pack. In any case, you are home free as soon as you get past them once, no lying in wait to crash the front runners on the next lap.

Making that an option also keeps function for career, leagues, etc that may want to have realistic issues with getting around lapped cars. It doesn't solve the problem of players who insist on trying to race above their ability with dive bombing, cutting, and using other cars as brakes, but it does eliminate the worst of the worst for what has to be very little effort since all required pieces already exist in the game.

But T10 not even giving us this much requested update is alone enough to make it clear that don't pay attention to customers (other than wayward Horizon tweeners they seem to want to cater to), and/or they really don't care to give more than token effort and empty promises from whatever mouthpiece they introduce next.
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#440 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 2:46:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XCELRATE Go to Quoted Post
I see 2 race regulation possibilities that seem like they would be easy to implement into the game and solve 2 of the biggest issues with online multiplayer.

1. Regardless of how it happen if all 4 tires left the track limits you are respawned to where you left the track. (No one will like this but) With the new physics and how much harder it is to push another vehicle around maybe you should have given more room or not put yourself in the position you ended up in, like trying to pass when you shouldn't have been. Of course there will be situations that are out of your control but I find that I could have prevented the wreck I ended up in.

2. Impact meter - if a vehicle runs into another vehicle with a impact above a certain level, that vehicle is respawned after a 2 or 3 second delay to a point before the impact point. Players that are only in the lobby to run into others, I don't see how to stop them unless you add limit to the number of impacts a player can have been being removed from the lobby.


No, and no.

This is a perfect example of how stuff like this system get screwed up, because it's really not this simple. Both of your points have situations (mostly ones involving only 2-3 cars) where they would work, generally. They also have situations where they would not work, and could possibly make things worse.

First off, for resetting cars you run into the issue that Horizon has right now, where respawning places you back on the track and gives you a little speed boost, and often causes you to miss the checkpoint you just missed yet again. If you respawn cars ghosted in the middle of the track not moving, then you get ghosts rejoining the field in awkward spots and off-pace, and any respawn is basically a race-ending penalty, and you will have more people rage quitting than you have now.

For number 1, a respawn in the middle of the track is a draconian penalty for some instances of "4 off." It would lead to no one driving hard as the risk wouldn't be worth it, and would make pushing people off the new griefer strategy. Think about it at some tracks like VIR where the track limits are messed up as well.

It would also make getting punted/pushed off track even more frustrating than it already is. As you said, some of it can be avoided, especially for one-on-one incidents, but larger incidents would get complicated. You could no longer go off the track to avoid larger incidents involving multiple spinning/tangled/out-of-control cars, meaning you would have to either jump on the brakes or just crash straight into them. Jumping on the brakes, while certainly a legit crash avoidance option, has times and places where it just causes more problems. It often leads to getting rear-ended by the car behind, creating problems with your "Impact meter" for the guy behind and possibly punting you off the track. Or you get pushed into the guy in front of you and push them off the track and/or have your own "Impact meter" issue. The only alternative is to just drive into the mess in front of you, likely hitting them and getting an "Impact meter" reset while the guy you hit gets knocked off the track and respawned.

Your second idea works when considering people no-braking into the back of other people in corners, but it doesn't work for other types of accidents. It also still leaves the game to decide who is at fault for things. If slamming into the back of people causes it to trigger, welcome to the brake-check fest. Then take someplace like Long Beach for example. If someone catches the tire wall on the exit of the corner onto Seaside and comes to a dead stop in front of you, it sucks as it is now. Throw in a respawn penalty and it would be even worse.

Unfortunately not as simple as just "ghost the crashers" or "respawn some guys."

Originally Posted by: BadDog1966 Go to Quoted Post
I can't count high enough to indicate the number of times folks have asked for just ghosting back markers when they are lapped The functionality clearly exists since we have ghosts in other context, and the game clearly knows what lap each car is on.

One and DONE that eliminates the worst offenders, that being the dedicated rammers often called "griefers". They might get one good ram in, and then all or most everyone is past them by the time they recover. Most can't actually drive, so there's a decent chance they don't get any successful hits, basically leaving just the turn one fiasco. And even if they aren't completely useless drivers, the time taken to recover from a ram almost certainly puts them at or near the back of the pack. In any case, you are home free as soon as you get past them once, no lying in wait to crash the front runners on the next lap.

Making that an option also keeps function for career, leagues, etc that may want to have realistic issues with getting around lapped cars. It doesn't solve the problem of players who insist on trying to race above their ability with dive bombing, cutting, and using other cars as brakes, but it does eliminate the worst of the worst for what has to be very little effort since all required pieces already exist in the game.

But T10 not even giving us this much requested update is alone enough to make it clear that don't pay attention to customers (other than wayward Horizon tweeners they seem to want to cater to), and/or they really don't care to give more than token effort and empty promises from whatever mouthpiece they introduce next.


Ghosting backmarkers does really need to be an option, but the last car pack already shown how much they listen and that all their "we are listening guys!" and "we are bringing the motorsport back!" stuff is a load of garbage.

While on the subject of ghosting, they should also ghost cars that have finished the race. It wouldn't really do anything to help the multiplayer crash situation, but here is no need for the AI-driven cars to stay circulating as solid objects.

Edited by user Thursday, January 17, 2019 2:50:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#441 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:49:15 AM(UTC)
No thanks to ghosting back markers. That's not racing when you dint have to manage traffic including back markers. Make the threat of an ip ban real and people wont grief. Make a report system.

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#442 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 10:35:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.

FRR will get here when they get here.

Why do people get so bent out of shape when they hype themselves up for a feature that has never had an official release date announced? You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago.


Probably because it's a feature that a) Should be intrinsic to any game with 'Motorsport' in the title, and b) Has been repeatedly asked for by customers since at least 2008.

What you're witnessing is the tail end of a decade long process that began with customers being patient, which then slipped into resigned apathy, and then sat for years in a state of overt cynicism due to complete radio silence on the matter from Turn 10. The notion that some sort of penalty system only just popped into their heads is flat wrong. People have been asking for it for a very long time.

I'll never understand why so many developers are so improbably bad at PR, but Turn 10 are no exception. In any business, managing the expectations of your customer is one of the most important things you can do. Turn 10 seem intent on getting this expectation management exactly wrong.

In terms of PR, the only thing worse than not saying anything, is saying something and then being vague and evasive. Turn 10, for their own reasons, have opted for vague and evasive. Well, it is what it is, but that's why customers are getting annoyed.

I think this is possibly because Turn 10 still don't really know which direction to take the Motorsport series: More competitive racing, or more 'Car Culture' experience. I had previously thought the success of Horizons would solve this problem, but clearly it hasn't. In trying to please everyone, they're (rather unsurprisingly) struggling.

What's more puzzling to me is why people defend Turn 10 as if they were their own child, incapable of doing any wrong. Let's be clear about this, Turn 10 are a company who have sold people a product. Turn 10 have said they are going to alter that product, but are being hazy and evasive about how and when.

If I ran my business like that, I wouldn't have enough money to keep buying this game in the vague hope that one year they might sort it out.
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#443 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 10:45:47 AM(UTC)
BC: I completely agree on all points.

That's why I said make it an option.

That way the public hoppers could be defaulted to gosting back markers, and leagues/private/RC/career/endurance/whatever could provide a more realistic experience when the prospect of rammers lying in wait to take out the front runners is not an issue.

The IP ban, report system, regulations et.al. are a bigger chunk to bite for design/dev/test/support, so most of us completely understand it taking a while, particularly factoring in the missteps of some of their more responsive competition in that area. But my beef is an option to ghost back markers should have very little overhead (comparatively), so why couldn't that be rolled out separately in the same way the collision physics update and track boundaries (voiced issues notwithstanding) to lop off a big chunk of the worst of the griefers.

Edited by user Thursday, January 17, 2019 10:48:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#444 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 3:32:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
No thanks to ghosting back markers. That's not racing when you dint have to manage traffic including back markers. Make the threat of an ip ban real and people wont grief. Make a report system.


I fully agree except in the context of 4 lap races in the hoppers. If you come up on lap traffic in those, it's pretty much always someone deliberately hanging back to wreck people or get "revenge" on the person they feel messed up their race.
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#445 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 3:52:00 PM(UTC)
What's the hold up with this system? I can't take the cancer of online racing anymore.
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#446 Posted : Thursday, January 17, 2019 4:49:28 PM(UTC)
RRS seems like the penalty system in FM2 (2007) ... and we wait for that since FM2 but T10 never want to add that ... and now RRS is announced last year and now ??? NOTHING ... Very annoying, I'm very frustrated to play FM7 without lobby in MP with RRS activate ... I'm tired to wait that since more 10 years .... I'm tired to play with unfair players ... I WANT RRS NOW ...

Made lobby with and without RRS, made a solo part who will learn how to be a good racer, made a better vote in MP to expulse bad/unfair players, WE NEED IT SINCE FM3.


I love FM, I love FM7, it's a GREAT game but without RRS today it is not complete, not finish for me and I'm tired to wait for that .... I don't want to play MP today because wreckers and unfair players made me sick .... I know RRS never completely resolve the problem but it will contribuate greatly to ameliorate the pleasure on MP.

PLEASE T10 : ADD RRS ON FM7 NOW, WE WANT IT NOW, STOP WAITING.

PS : And please : Made a fast and better interface in MP too ... so slowly today ... simplify all if you want, we don't care, we just want a good and fast U.I in MP !!!!! And add all the good ideas from FM4 in interface too. PLEASE.

Edited by user Thursday, January 17, 2019 4:52:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#447 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2019 12:47:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ACR HardVibes Go to Quoted Post
No race regulation system
....so this is why "someone" didn't show his face during the live stream.

FRR will get here when they get here.

Why do people get so bent out of shape when they hype themselves up for a feature that has never had an official release date announced? You do realize that Race Regulations were probably never a consideration for this game up until a few months ago. It takes an incredible amount of time to add something as complex as the FRR. I'm glad they're taking the time to do it right. They've proved that the code works (as they have demonstrated development builds of the FRR on ForzaMonthly streams) and now they are zeroing in on how it should be implemented. This is not a quick process, it takes a lot of trial and error and testing to make sure it behaves the way they want it to.


If i buy a game with "Motorsport" in the title, i 'll neve come on the idea that there is NO race regulation. It anounces to be a Racing Game but we got rude street racing on tracks. It's total anarchie out there - cut and ram without consequences - the rudest driver wins. We got a basic environment to drive cars around a track with some ohters (AI or Multiplayer) not more. And its more than a year now that we wait for the Core Feature of the game - racing.
I also want to mention that i had a lot of fun whith the game (more than 2,5k races and 500h behind the wheel) but the better i get the higher is the frustration.
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