Bree already wrote it exactly. H4 is highly assisted on a pad but not much as GTS for instance. On a wheel assists are off. And physics is the same maybe with some slight tuning.
The posts above have done a great job of breaking things down, and I agree that sim vs arcade isn’t particularly descriptive, and isn’t all or nothing. Even the term" arcade" itself doesn’t mean anything beyond the fact that the game was on an arcade cabinet, which doesn’t say anything about the quality of the simulation since there have been quite detailed car simulations in arcades, along with pure fantasy car racing games very loosely based on RL.
From a physics simulation standpoint, FH4 actually has quite a good model under the hood that rivals a lot of professional racing sims. However, this simulation has been intentionally tweaked away from reality for more “fun” and cars slide around quite a bit more readily than IRL, and have WAY too much snow grip among other departures from reality like the complete lack of meaningful vehicle damage. From this perspective, the driving model could be referred to as “simcade”.
From a gameplay standpoint, FH4 is mostly fantasy/“arcade”. The road and dirt races are somewhat realistic, but the lack of any sort of race rules or regulations hurts the simulation realism. The cross country events and PR stunts/PGG and general open world shenanigans are pure fantasy with insane jumps and smashing through walls/fences as part of a race, breaking even the super lenient damage model the game has since a lot of those ridiculous events can’t even be completed with “simulation” damage turned on.
I would say that FH4 has simulation roots (which is a very good thing for the overall vehicle handling), but has thoroughly been transformed into a fantasy arcade game with the choices the devs have made for physics tuning and gameplay.
You are right. Roots are great but gameplay is usually too much for a sim 
Something with new term is necessary. Because if you like NFS you could be disappointed with the sim side but if you like sims you could be very happy with the physics.
Compared to Motorsport, Horizon’s tires feel like they’re made of bubble gum. The car just wanders around on the straights, feels wobbly. Which is why default Horizon tune runs 7.0 caster.
Speaking of which, much of what tuners do with Horizon is to try and remove the boaty feel so inputs become as precise as possible, but the cars will still feel extra soft, boat-like next to Motorsport. AWD will hide the problem at the cost of making it even more arcade since you greatly negate throttle control with it.
Also, there’s some cars like SRT Viper ACR which, for whatever reason, have this huge drag that severely cripples their top speed.
If you take any S2 class car with strong aero in FH4, they corner at absurd speeds. The GT-inspired cars like the MC12 Corsa almost feel like an F1. That’s just not real.
I’ll say here that Motorsport’s tires could be a little more forgiving overall, but Horizon is on the opposite end of the spectrum with its boats.
Finally, the low gravity during jumps and the hidden assist so you don’t flip your car over.
There could be some smooth helper or it’s part of the improved tires.
You are right with the aero. I am not sure if it’s right in Motorsport but it’s very strange in Horizon. Some cars are fast even with high drag and some are opposite. Probably some PI magic but I am not sure if you are able to get a license for crippled car.
It’s hard to compare both games on a controller because Motorsport doesn’t have so high stabilization. I am not sure if the game helps or not so comparing is harder. Overall physics looks the same in many situations.
Yeah, low gravity is very arcade feeling. Do you think there are two modes for it? One for racing - you could have real physics and when you go too high, it’s just Horizon gravity. I am not sure.
The aero in Motorsport is very bad as well but not on the level of Horizon.
I think that, to run on consoles with weak CPUs while still maintaining good graphics, games marketed as driving simulations like Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo have to run very simplified physics for certain things. I wouldn’t be surprised if drafting for example was just a performance boost based on how close you are to the car in front (and broken in FM7). It’s very surprising to see Sony restore the user-friendly Gran Turismo “proper” on the PS5 while Microsoft reportedly goes a little more hardcore with Forza Motorsport on the Xbox Series.
The physics is mostly the same according to my experience, but Horizon’s physics have been officially reported as “more forgiving” compared to Motorsport. I don’t know what it wants to imply but, from the way the car behaves, with more abrupt grip loss in Motorsport, I suspect it has to do with tires and how the slip angles in Horizon are greatly exaggerated. I think Motorsport could benefit from a little more as well.
When it comes to tunability (and in reply to another comment), games like NFSU2 had full suspension tuning and were still firmly in the arcade camp. Whereas games like Test Drive Unlimited and Forza Horizon the first didn’t have tuning and were more realistic. Being able to tune only means you can change physics settings on the fly, nothing more than that.
IMO it’s not so much about the physics but also the attitude of the community. The way the community plays the game, it’s definitely with an arcade game in mind, and Motorsport with minmaxing builds isn’t too far from it. In most Forza lobbies (both Horizon and Motorsport) you run no damage, no simulation features, which means you can get away with exploiting the engine, like in Horizon, where minimum tire pressure just works, or in Motorsport where you can offset the lack of response from old cars by running very thin sidewalls and no penalty to tire degradation. Widespread drivetrain conversion in Forza is another arcade feature IMO.
Forza in many aspects is very “game-like”, which is why people tend to not take it seriously, although the core engine is (intended to be) a simulation. In short: in Horizon and to a lesser extent Motorsport, if you tune with real-world experience in mind, you’ll end up slower than someone who exploits the engine’s quirks.
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Think “FH4 has assisted steering” is more the thing that it limits the steeringinput on higher speeds.
Open Telemetry and watch steering move stick to full left/right while driving and not driving
In FH4 set tire pressure to absolute min and car feels fine try same in rl
I have a Blueprint wich can be done in Senna without braking. Same for speed+roadsurfaces no way to go that fast on rl roads
Even SimRacers are ‘arcades’ there is no 1:1 simulation (will never be) thats all games to have fun with and it’s easier to call it ‘arcade’
Definitely, snow racing is better on FH3 Bizzard mountain, would have been such a great thing to have that kind of races online on FH4. Best FH DLC I played.
Incredible grip on snow ( who ever drove on snow knows ). Hypercars/Supercars/2cm from ground cars able to go offroad, yes that’s not exactly sim, for sure. A bit more realistic physic would be good but when all the players share the same playground, the difficulty needs to be aligned for the largest population of players therefore the weakest possible.
Besides that, imho, calling FH4 an arcade is mostly the thing of some players for justifiying dirty playing like " It’s ok to be ramming because it’s arcade game …". “Wall riding and corner bombing should be ok because it’s arcade” etc.
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First of all, calling this game an Arcade Racer is no insult. After all it’s a valid genre with lots of appeal to many players. What is wrong about being popular?.
Second: Not even Forza Motorsport is a real simulation, but more arcade-y than sim-like. In many aspects like physics, race setup and general rules it doesn’t hold a candle compared to real simulations like Assetto Corsa / AC competizione, Race Room, Gran Turismo Sport or iRacing. Just look at all the missing stuff like qualifications, penalties for leaving the track, race class limits and such (aside from the lackluster physics)
But then again: Arcade racers and arcade centric simcades are popular. Even so much that Project Cars was turned into an arcade game in part 3. Its a deliberate decision, and Forza Motorsport / Forza Horizon would probably lose a lot of audience if they became more “serious”. While i woudn’t mind a more sim sophistication in Motorsport, I am actually very happy with the arcade approach in Horizon. There is no othet game available with the same mix of appeal and easy accessibility.
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lol
I’m surprised you didn’t put Project CARS 2 in your list, which is far more of a sim than GTS.
Speaking of which, F1 series is more sim than GTS as well. It’s got complete ruleset of F1 and serviceable physics.
Yes, Project Cars 2 belongs in that list, too. Still, GTS is on the same level.
Like it or not, top tier / pro sim players respect gran turismo as part of the esport scene, while they don’t do the same with Forza Motorsport. However, Forza Motorsport is popular as an entry-level game into the genre, so if you find out that you like this kind of game, you can still advance to a real sim. Nothing bad about being a genre teaser. There is enough demand for a game like that.
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They “respect it” because of the organized penalty system as well as the sanctioned championships. It has nothing to do with the physics. Remove those and Gran Turismo is knocked down to the level of Forza Motorsport, as it’s always been.
Another thing is that Sony heavily invests in marketing, the right type of marketing for such a game. Meanwhile, Forza Motorsport adds Hot Wheels.
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But it’s funny GT has highly assisted controls on a pad but Motorsport does not.
So for controller, if you like sims your next best station is Motorsport. GT is for kids. But I respect online leagues and wheel users, I just don’t care about it.
With some cars, the effect of the assists in FM7 with a controller is enormous. When I stopped playing FM7 was when I had done lap after lap of a rivals event with a wheel, and the car was a nightmare to drive, then I got my controller out and immediately took a huge amount off my lap time, something like 5+ seconds. I realised right there that a game with so much difference between wheel and controller can never be taken seriously. There are some cars where the wheel is fine, but the cars where there is a huge difference show how significant the controller assists are in some circumstances.
It doesn’t feel right. What assists can you feel? I can tell there is some kind of light stabilization but very far from H4 or GTS. The car on the controller feels a bit stable to me but I don’t how it is with a wheel. Maybe I can retest it.
You’d have to try the same event, which won’t exist any more. I remember it was a Lambo road car. With a wheel, the slightest bit of steering and braking at the same time would spin the car out, but with a controller it was dead easy.
I can compare it with AC1 or PC2 and have very good comparison because both games doesn’t have much helpers I guess. But AWD Lambo is nothing I could try to test So it’s possible for some cars. Maybe it’s like Horizon. I love hard to drive RWD cars because it feels so good. But some AWD cars are usually very strange. I don’t use AWD almost anywhere so I am not sure how it is.
PC probably isn’t the same as XBox, then you have XBox One X, XBox One S, XBox Series X, Xbox Series S, and you have all variations of PC. I am on Xbox One S, and Motorsport is impossible to play. RWD is terrible.
We are probably all talking about different systems.
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Personally I would never call a game where you can do custom tunes (adjust tyre pressure, suspension, gear ratios etc) an arcade game. Game where you can turn off abs, traction control, stability control etc. Game where racing line is vital to be competitive. Game that you can play on a wheel with the ability to adjust force feedback strength, wheel rotation etc.
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FH4 physics are different to FM7 imo.
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The game feels like a simcade. What I mean by that is having a sim roots but adding “assists” to make the game playable on a controller. More grip, easy to control slides and recover from them. Overall more forgiving compared to Forza Motorsport or proper sims such as Assetto Corsa.
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Personally I really like physics in FH2. Cross Country races are more realistic as it’s fairly easy to flip a car especially if it’s not an off-road vehicle. But in general FH4 is more fun and very accessible.
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Lastly, arcade racer for me it’s a game where you hardly have to brake when racing, no tunning available, etc. Kinda simple pick up an play game, e.g. Burnout 3 Takedown
Nothing wrong with that as long as you’re having fun. Also: in many arcade racers you can’t build a gap between cars, what I mean by that is when you’re last during the race after few crashes for some reason you can suddenly catch up with the leader and vice versa, you cannot get away from the ai no matter how fast you’re driving. Actually this can be fun as in a serious racing games you go off the track once or twice and your races is over. Again: it’s preference and you see this kind of stuff in a typical arcade racers. -
Just my view as everyone have their own definition of what arcade racer is for them so this can be bit subjective therefore I don’t care if someone calls fh4 arcade. You play what you like and call a game what you feel like you want to call it, simple.
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Exactly! It’s very complicated because many here showed good points why it feels like an arcade game. But on the other hand it has so many simulation stuff. What about telemetry in CM games, nothing there. It’s definitely not arcade but we probably don’t have any term yet for it.