Why are all drivatars so aggressive??

I like the idea of the drivatar system but I firmly believe that’s where it should have stayed… An idea. Purely because they are so aggressive you can’t overtake without being smashed into a wall or the gravel or being spun out completely… The only way to combat this would be to implement a better system of if you haven’t got a car that is eligible for that particular championship your drivatar doesn’t race in it likewise if you haven’t raced that championship yourself… Or get rid of the drivatar system altogether completely ruined what has the potential to be a fantastic game.

I like the drivatar system on the whole.

I would agree that if you have not got the car or done the track at the level the race requires then your virtual driver should not enter.

To highlight this my Brother has played for about 2 hours. He is in every race that I enter at every level with all of the most expensive cars. He has only bought 2 cars since playing F5 :stuck_out_tongue:

I do notice that virtual drivers on your friends list seem to be more aggressive than others. I recently added someone from a ‘Clean Drivers’ post where a group of clean drivers were getting together to race online without it all being a stock car race. Even his virtual racer is side swiping me as I pass and he is not a dirty driver normally ‘apparently’. I am also noticing that friends list virtual racers seem to have the strange ability of always being much faster than anyone else. I suspect this is to make it feel competitive with a friend but nothing worse than being miles ahead of them all only to have a brother in my case fly past me on a straight as if I am not even moving and take the 1st place form me.

Having a name on a driver though such as me racing and seeing my friends or brother racing in the same event is nice though.

I do agree that some improvements are necessary or you simply accept the side swiping and return the favour back to them. It is an offline version anyway so to speak and so not as important to be clean as an online multiplayer race. The AI is all a bit thick in truth. Nice idea though.

It’s only a game so no big deal, just an irritation.

I vote for the get rid although it will be far to late for Forza 5, Forza 6 i hope to see well programmed AI and Drivatars long gone.

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Personally, I question how genuine the Drivatar system is. I quite like a wee bit of contact during a race but I have had a few situations where I have been quite inappropriately ejected from the track.

If I were to guess I would expect the very aggresive drivatars are those of people who have not played much.

It takes just a few races to have a drivatar up and running. I have done god knows how many thousands of races now and my drivatar total is at 57%. Using my brother drivatar as an example as I mentioned above, he must only have a 1% upload if that and so his driving cannot be accurately represented with the handful of races he has done which is why his drivatar is so aggressive maybe.

Maybe the system is being tweaked behind the scense to improve it. It is a new system so not going to be perfect right away.

I have found that the drivatars react to your style of driving, if you drive aggressively they return the favour in kind, as a result i try to race as cleanly as possible and i don’t have much problem getting a podium (pro difficulty). So race clean and the drivatars will do likewise.

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+1 i love the drivatars its simple if you drive clean then the drivatars will drive clean with you. Ive had some amazingly close races with the drivatars they are way better than the AI we had in Forza 4 and i cant believe people would want Forza to go back to the scripted AI we had in Forza 4.

From what ive watched of other people racing (not online but in the same room) ive seen people bashing and crashing the other cars then complain when they get taken off track by the AI. I think alot of people forget about racing and just want to win by any means so crash into the AI then complain when they gat some payback instead of enjoying the race and finishing amongst the pack just like real drivers you dont win them all.

Absolutely not true. My clean driving habits mean nothing to the drivatars. All it takes is two drivatars to make contact and then the whole field goes crazy like they were infected (Zombie Apocalypse). The drivatars are based upon their human counter-parts. In career mode, many people realize that in order to win such short races that eventually they’ll have to make some aggressive moves to get by all of those drivatars and their drivatars mimic that behavior. And, I think Bill 777 is definitely on to something with the friends that start at the back with you. Those drivatars will almost always be faster than the ones in the front. Once they attempt to pass the drivatars in front, they make contact and BOOM the whole field blows up. I can give countless examples of how my being a ‘clean’ driver and giving the drivatars ample room made no difference as they swerve 15 feet sideways just to knock me off of the course. I’ve even had two drivatars work together to knock me out of contention where they pulled up on either side of me, then both swerved into each other in front of me and formed an impassible V.

Your driving habits during the race will have little to no effect upon the drivatars, and anyone can prove this to themselves…just go do the bonus tracks of a series and attempt to finish 16th with absolutely NO contact with the drivatars. Do that for 5 races or so, then go re-do a race and attempt to drive cleanly but finish 1st and you’ll see…

It is true i have no problem with the drivatars i drive clean and they drive clean with me and i have some fantastic close clean racing against them. Perhaps your not as clean a driver as you say try watching the video posted by GRD 4 3L for some proof of clean racing by the drivatars.

Edited to add video link
For proof of the clean driving AI here is a video of my race yesterday. In the video you can clearly see me passing multiple cars by driving between them and not once did the AI try and take me out the AI races clean if you drive clean simples ;-).

LINK

Please do post your examples. I have yet to see anyone post a legitimate example of these types of behaviors.

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I think they are aggressive because they cant actually see other cars on the track. That makes them seem “aggressive” when in reality they are just driving pre-determined lines around the track and if you happen to be in the way they will hit you (not even knowing you are there).

I would love Turn10 to answer this one quesion, truthfully: Do drivatars see and react to other cars on the track?

Based on my observations the answer is NO.

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Of course the drivatars can see you for proof see the video link in my sig. If people put the difficulty to pro or higher and drive clean then the AI will learn that you are a clean driver and race clean with you.

Drivatars are definitely aware of other drivers. The people training them aren’t putting enough emphasis on racing clean is all.

I know that if my drivatar gets (aggressively) blocked a few too many times by someone it can obviously pass, he’ll provoke a fish tail and keep it moving. Note that when you start blocking drivatars generally they’ll tap the brakes and back off, but most drivers aren’t too keen on stopping for hunks of metal hitting the brakes in front of them… thus? Cars ramming cars. I’ve also noticed my brother seems to aggressively side swipe at me when I start overtaking him, but it’s only at certain speeds and when I’m but so close to him.

Meanwhile I’ve noticed since I picked up driving on particular lines and stressing close stops, drafting passes, and more slingshot turning my drivatar has been using every trick in my book more often. That includes running down on other racers up to a few inches of their bumper, and then darting past them on the outside of turns, especially if it can let the car slide out a bit in one of my stronger cars.

I see a lot of complaining about drivatars out here, I think they’re pretty spot on. The people driving to train them just don’t care.

"I think they are aggressive because they cant actually see other cars on the track. That makes them seem “aggressive” when in reality they are just driving pre-determined lines around the track and if you happen to be in the way they will hit you (not even knowing you are there).

I would love Turn10 to answer this one quesion, truthfully: Do drivatars see and react to other cars on the track?

Based on my observations the answer is NO."

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. Drivatars may mess up (just like real people do) but they have great awareness of the cars around them. They DO NOT drive a pre-determined lines. They will, if they can, give you room but at the same time take room if you are off.

Below is a link to YouTube video of my friend’s drivatar (unbeatable). You can see his reaction and other car’s reactions. His car even drafts behind a Mini to pick-up little speed on a straight. On the back straight, the Honda Civic gets passed on the straight but claims it back during braking. That is awesome drivatar action. Very few contacts overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFJ9oK4O6Ws&list=UUfYC3HzCc21o7-HSlkQuetg&feature=share

Drivatars are the best, smartest AIs that I have ever raced against. Period.

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I have found that at the lower difficulty levels my friends start in the back with me and we are much faster than the rest of the drivatars. As we push through the pack the difference in speed causes many conflicts. As a result it is very difficult to race clean and the drivatars get more aggressive.

At the unbeatable level the speeds of all the drivatars even out and it is easier to run a clean race. The drivatars run smoothly and are more predictable. If I have the line or if I am about to put a drivatar in a bad position, the drivatar will clearly take evasive action to avoid me. When I make a mistake, the drivatars are quick to take advantage and pass me. Its cool that when I am too cautious going into a turn a drivatar outbrakes me and takes the position. That’s the way it should be.

If you are having problems with the drivatars, instead of moving down a level, move up and see if it gets better.

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That’s reassuring to read. I only have issues with drivatars on my friend list generally. I only have it set at the 35% bonus level so I will up it to maximum now, I like a challenge :slight_smile:

Thanks for your experiences/thoughts.

While I do really like the concept of drivatars very much, I’d agree that whatever formula they use could definitely use some tweaking. At least from my experience and that of my friends, our drivatars don’t seem to drive anything like our real selves. Despite being one of the cleanest drivers on my friends list, I’ve had reports of friends trying to make a corner, only to get practically T-boned by me as my drivatar would severely under-brake on the inside of corners and sideswipe the player. And I know for a fact that I’ve NEVER done that in a career/free play race (even in my more “impatient” of times, heh).

But, I do hope they try to stick with it and refine the algorithms/code for drivatars. Maybe give players a separate “drivatar training” mode to hone their AI’s skills, without the pressure and rush to finish gold in career races and free play, which must contribute to the dirtiness/aggressiveness of drivatars in some way. IMO it does still have a lot of potential.

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I think that they need to just take the Drivatar idea, and instead of racing random people make it to where it is only professional racers on Forza. Top of the leaderboard styled racers. Then add in a better system for spacial awareness. Dependent on what difficulty you play on will depend on the Drivatar. The best of the best will be in unbeatable and professional, great, but slower drivers in the next level down, and so on. Then with the easiest difficulty with Drivatar’s that are calm and don’t really go for it. I guess typical old fashioned Forza AI.

It is mainly the spacial awareness, however, that needs to be revamped. I do enjoy the Drivatar’s on certain tracks. The aggressiveness is great, but most track just end in disaster right in the first corner. Prague is one. You could be hauling through the pack and then all of a sudden they decide to pull out in front of you and slam on the brakes giving you no time to react even though they have no need to brake in the first zig zag in the beginning of the Prague track. Other times they will go off track and then come flying back on and slam into the side of your car without warning. Something needs to be changed about them. They aren’t a problem on the lower class cars but with the faster cars they are all over the place and very messy. Factor in the fact that once you hit a Drivatar, even with a small little scrape, or they hit you, then they decide to start slamming into you constantly.

Seems like a good idea but top leaderboard drivers are not always the best racers in traffic.

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I don’t see how that is supposed to have anything to do with your question of aggressive Drivatars. Them being aggressive has absolutely nothing to do with what cars they have or haven’t driven and what championships they have or haven’t raced.

Drivatars are aggressive because the players are aggressive. The players are aggressive because some of them are just ignorant jerks and because the others are pretty much forced to be aggressive by the game. Typically you get two laps to gain as many positions as possible, preferably all the way to the front. That gives you no time to patiently wait behind rolling roadblocks to eventually pass them sportingly, but rather we’re forced to just force our way through. If there’s two cars ahead of you running side-by-side and they’re definitely holding you up, but there isn’t quite room in between or on either side to cleanly go through, you can either sit there and know you’re going to finish poorly or you can force your way through. Players logically will choose the latter because nobody wants to finish half-way down the field just because rivals spent too much time in the way.

It also doesn’t help that Drivatars don’t take damage. They don’t care how much they slam into other cars because they only suffer cosmetic damage. They can hit a solid wall, somersault into the air, and land on another car without having any brake damage, suspension damage, gearbox damage, or any performance decrease of any kind. Even if they did suddenly start suffering damage with a game patch, that wouldn’t change their behavior if their behavior is based on players that play with mechanical damage turned off. Drivatars at least need to be segregated based on whether they represent players playing with or without damage because players playing with damage turned on aren’t going to go around slamming into other cars at full speed.

What we actually need are:

  1. Drivatars of players playing with damage turned off don’t get to participate in races where damage is on.
  2. Drivatars to be able to take mechanical damage.
  3. Drivatars to actually care about whether or not they take damage.
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