Muscle Cars and brakes

To me it feels like the brakes on Muscle Cars are far too strong and the front wheels begin skittering too easily under heavy braking. Though I can’t say I’ve had the privilege to drive many of the muscle cars in Forza Motorsport, I’ve driven a few muscle cars like a '71 Chevelle, '73 and '79 Z28 Camaro and a '71 Nova; and I’ve driven them pretty hard, and I can’t say the brakes felt like they do in Forza. Here are some actual real life tests of some muscle cars to give you an example.

1971 Charger SE

1969 Plymouth GTX

1968 Shelby GT500

1971 Oldsmobil 442 Convertible

As shown in the videos that in some cases, even in panic braking, it's actually the rear wheels that begin to skitter and lock up under heavy braking before the front, assuming because of the unpredictable nature of drum brakes and weight transfer.

You could be on to something with the drum brake vs. disc brake thing, Shay.

Cars with 4-wheel drums feel like it: The AU Type D or Ford F100, for example. Maybe it doesn’t mix them on the same car properly (front disc rear drum), the drums might be too weak vs the discs, so the front tires lock up first. Or, it’s not simulating the way drums get “grabby” when cold (that “unpredictability” you mentioned).

I’m under the impression they don’t differentiate between different AWD systems (beyond front/rear torque split), i.e. Subaru’s AWD system works different to, say, Audi’s. Rather, they have blanket “AWD car” physics. Could be a similar thing with brakes.

Also I know you usually upgrade your tire compound, that could affect which tires lock up first.

It tends to vary from car to car, and depends on how the drum brakes operate on each car. In the final youtube link they mention that on some of the cars with automatic adjusters, that this caused the rear drums to perform unpredictably as they were constantly going forward and backward in the cars during these tests. But I think it might be in the suspension design too. My '79 Z28 Camaro I had years ago had skittered in the rear end under hard panic braking while the front wheels kept traction; and I even had wider higher quality rubber on the rear wheels.

Then on my '74 Malibu I don’t recall ever locking the rear wheels on it, but the car also needed an act of congress to get it to stop. The difference between these cars other than obviously one being a sports car and the other a full sized sedan, is that the Camaro is a subframe and leaf spring car while the Malibu was full framed and had a four link rear end with coils.

Perhaps I should run some in game tests!

[quote=Shay Feral;392365
Then on my '74 Malibu I don’t recall ever locking the rear wheels on it, but the car also needed an act of congress to get it to stop. [/quote]

So that is what Congress has been doing all these years! Sorry couldn’t resist.

yeah… Every time I had to stop at a traffic light upon hitting the brakes I heard a gavel tapping and an 80 year old man with an authoritarian voice shouting “Court is now in session”.

But seriously, the front brakes were sliding pin, single piston calipers and rotors that are just a touch larger than what you’d find on a '95 Honda Civic but on a car that weighs about 4,000 lbs.

I just think the brakes need to be re-balanced a bit on Muscle Cars, I think they’re a bit too effective and the front end begins to skitter too easily.

Good observation!

This has been the case with Forza for a while now; I hope they pay more attention to brake physics… even going uphill/downhill does not appear to affect braking performance.

Physics are only going to improve with newer versions… and they’ll get there eventually. I actually end up not upgrading the brakes at all on many cars because of this reason.

Well, to make it somewhat realistic, you could get max brake upgrades and then keep braking pressure towards the lower side.

I don’t know about the other 2 but those 2 old mopars were good at one thing and one thing only. straight line, quarter mile at a time

Please don’t take me wrong. But this cars with realistic brakes … with what should they compete on track? Just with other musckle cars … would need a own class :wink:

Send a real muscle car and a lotus 11 on a real track and see what happens. But in game they have the same PI index. I think the designers made som compromises to make the majority of gamers happy :wink: