More Skill Less Luck for Achievements: Kill the Drivatars and Traffic!

The biggest single complaint I have with the Horizon series is the element of luck for challenges/achievements. Absolutely sick and tired of having a good run ruined by another car doing some unexpected. Yes I’m on record in another thread complaining about the AI for drivatars however, I could live with that more than relying on luck for other achievements.

I hate rewinding, it kills my momentum figuratively. A skill achievement shouldn’t require luck. The traffic is sometimes the worst. Right in the optimal driving line at the worst time and even doing things no real driver would do. I’ve seen a car in traffic slow to turn right or left in a bridge or overpass with guard rails on either side. THERE IS NO WHERE TO GO!

Street races or roaming, fine, I’ll deal with the traffic and drivatars, however, once a skill event starts, the game marks the optimum driving line. Keep the traffic outside of that line to make it exciting but still possible to get the achievement.

I got achievement and before they nerfed a couple of them. as did a great many others.

This isn’t near a luck base achievement.

Win from 24th in a multiplayer event that was pretty much luck and skill. I don’t think I’ve ever lined up last dead last in a full lobby

I personally wouldn’t mind a traffic removal setting. But the basis of the argument in th OP is false.

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Um I never follow that line. Are we talking speed zones and drift zones?

If so the line is often wrong and I never follow it.

So far I have not had problems of traffic getting in the way (in any major way) to prevent completion of drift zones or speed zones.

As I have said in a previous thread on this issue I feel traffic adds to the challenge but not in a way that makes these events pure luck.

eg one of the challenges is to see the traffic and quickly plan a line to get around them (away from the line).

The line is not the best path to take anyway.

I’m not talking about the blue line. I’m talking optimal line for my build and car. I’m not talking about the Easy or Medium Bucket Lists. I’m talking about 3 stars on PR stunts or Hard Bucket Lists. I’ve finished all except 3 stars in all the drift zones. I’m frustrated because it takes multiple runs until you are lucky enough to not have traffic in the apex of the turn.

The traffic isn’t idempotent. It changes based on a randomization algorithm. That is luck.

Random <> luck. Sure you could get a good or bad traffic set but that still does not mean the whole thing is luck based. The challenge is not over at that point.

Racing online your opponents do random things. Is knowing how to deal with them luck or skill based?

When doing these challenges I check where the traffic is and then try to plan a route to try and deal with them, sometimes it works and sometimes not. If not then yes I have to try again. Why is that a bad thing?

Some racing games have 50 freakin hard challenges. Some have 500 stupidly easy challenges. The most enjoyable racing games (for me) are ones with 300 moderate / hard challenges.

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Random = luck. The definition of luck “success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one’s own actions.”

I’m a computer programmer for a living. Random algorithms are built to be chance and the basis for online gambling. When you shuffle cards and get a bad hand, that random distribution is luck.

You are missing the point I am trying to make.

Once the traffic set for you has been decided you can use skill to complete the challenge. The traffic set is just one element of it and therefore does not define the outcome. Skill can be used to overcome in spite of the random element.

It is not like the RNG determines if you win or lose, it simply determines one element of the environment within which you attempt the challenge.

Sure it is possible that a traffic set makes it hard but so what?

Also you are choosing to make it harder on yourself by not using rewind. Whilst I totally agree that you have a choice whether to use it or not the reality is it is harder for you because you do not use it.

Whether the game stacks itself in your favour or you do so via rewind what is the difference?

I used to play Poker and Blackjack. In fact I was a card counter in Blackjack and was banned in many casinos in my home town (not Las Vegas) and yes it took skill at both to over the luck of the draw. However, when doing a simulation automotive game I want to eliminate the luck and base it 100% on skill. Using rewind is overcoming the luck and doesn’t take skill so I don’t like using it.

All my 3 star PR stunts have been done without any rewinds but I have do some many, many times more than are required because of the luck of the draw with the traffic. I don’t mind multiple passes to develop the skill, however, with every attempt, technically I should be able to get my best result if I execute correctly.

You can reduce the traffic by going to private freeroam see if that gets it closer to how you would like it to work.

Avoiding the traffic IS skill, not luck. few if any people tune their cars for GRIP and handling in FH3. You should try it sometime, being able to swerve around traffic at speed is very doable and splitting the traffic coming both ways by riding the middle of the road (like Motorcyclists do), is also a skill.

More than half of my cars are tuned for grip. In fact I have doubles of a ton of cars with one being drift tuned and one being grip tuned. My ultima can take corners at like 170mph

Oh, I can avoid the traffic for the 1 stars easily and the 2 stars quite often, it’s the 3 stars that requires luck especially if you want to get the highest result for stunt points.

With a few of the 3 star challenges there is only one perfect line especially with the speed zones. I’m not talking about the recommended blue line, that is usually off, I’m talking about the optimal line to get speed required. I always get the achievements however it’s annoying because it sometimes takes a bunch of tries until you finally get a chance to take the corners at full speed without traffic or drivatars in the way. If traffic is right at the apex there is no way you can swerve and still get the 3 star achievements. That is “luck” that it takes multiple runs until no traffic is in your optimal line for your car.

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Yes it takes skill to avoid traffic, however, the traffic is not idempotent and there is variance based on randomization in the algorithms in the game. That is luck. I’ve always achieved the Hard or 3 star PR stunts, however it takes luck through multiple runs until you manage to get the best result.

Why would you assume I don’t build grip builds? With a number of the achievements there is an optimal line for your build (not the blue line) and if by luck because the algorithm puts traffic on the apex you can’t get the best result.

i notice when trying to do a drift zone as i do a practice run there is no traffic then when i start the event there is slow traffic and lunatic drivatars heading straight for me!

My biggest issue, and what I think the OP is getting at, is that traffic and Drivatars do interfere with some of the Speed Zones and Drift Zones thus making some of them more frustrating then they need to be. I have had a couple of instances where a Drivatar came recklessly barreling around a corner and slammed into me during a Speed/Drift Zone, either that a traffic car or Drivatar was in the line I was taking and in a position where they were nearly impossible to avoid without failing the zone, both situations ruined a good run and forced me to restart. In these situations, I absolutely agree that Drivatars and traffic need to be removed from Speed Zones and Drift Zones. Obviously skill will win out on these events eventually, but having traffic and Drivatars get in the way and messing up a good run can be infuriating at times.


It’s not a matter of luck. I have all achievements as well, and the traffic is a factor of difficulty for you to use your skills

If there is variance mathematically because of the algorithm in the game it’s luck whether or not traffic is in the apex. I can easily get the 1 stars or usually the 2 star PR stunts in one try, it’s the 3 star levels or Hard bucket lists that are annoying. I get them, however, it takes multiple runs until you are lucky enough to have your optimal line (not the blue one) clear for your run.

Yes it takes skill to avoid traffic but because of the variance in the traffic it’s luck due to the randomization.

To me, it seems the more time you spend in a specific area the more traffic and drivatars turn up… So If I don’t manage to do the “event” in the first few tries I go somewhere else and come back to it a few minutes a later…

Absolutely! It’s been like that since Horizon 1. I remember trying to go drift eagle ridge in single player and after one lap the traffic went from nothing to crazy.

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I have had this happen to me many times in the main game and the blizzard mountain dlc. I was so mad the one night trying to finish the last speed zone I had to do in the main game that I decided to do some experimenting. I drove up and down the same speed zone multiple times and basically attracted the traffic, the drove quickly to the nearest drift zone and just sat in the zone after the score counter started and waited. Not 2 min later the road was flooded with traffic and wreckless drivatars. Then raced back to the speed zone I needed to do and geuss what no traffic. Nailed it on the first try.

When blizzard mountain was released I drove all the roads first, did the first 14 races and 5 bucket list to get every speedtrap, speed/drift zones unlocked. And noticed the the same trend with an added bonus. Spending time in one PR stunt going back and forth atractted heavy traffic, the same 5 wreckless drivatars that just kept doin doing u turns down the road a bit and the bonus…blizzards. It seems driving the same stunt multiple times attracts the weather gods as well, making it impossible to beat the 3 star stunt or come anywere close to the top of the leaderboards.

In the main game I would often blueprint a buckelist with a destination set to the other side of the map and traffic off and clear weather if I wanted to “master” a drift zone line.