Manual w/ clutch - slower gear changes...

I race with assists off and manual w/ clutch. I also tend to convert FWD and AWD to RWD.

I’ve noticed that gear changes for cars converted to RWD and for paddle-shift RWD cars sound a bit strange using manual w/ clutch, like there’s a very slight delay and clutch slip between gears. I’ve done some playing around and gear changes are definitely slower than using just manual.

Has anyone else noticed this? It may be one of the many bugs already found, I’ve lost track, but it really is a bit of a pain in the back side having to keep switching between manual and w/ clutch.

FM6 doesn’t have this issue…


Manual with clutch used to have some point to it.

Either you gained some more credits from punishing yourself with the extra difficulty or you simply wanted that extra sim feeling (even on a modern Hypercar, which seemed to be selling the whole double clutch computerized tech short…more than a little backward)

But it always seemed slower to me in every Forza.

Maybe my fingers weren’t fast enough?

Hardcore gamers like to say that shifting with clutch is faster. Then why are real racecars using sequential manual transmission without clutch if old fashion clutch is faster and/or better? Does it make sense that moving your foot to step on the clutch, then moving the gear stick to find a gear in an H pattern is faster han simply flipping a paddle and let the latest hi-tech automation do the job for you?

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It’s because forza’s manual+ clutch has absolutely nothing to do with reality. M+C was programmed as the “pure” way to play the game, and as such gave you faster shifts than just manual or auto, which were considered assists. Prior to Forza7 m+c also payed a higher assist bonus as well.

So yes, the hardcore gamers would say that it was faster because, in the game, it was faster

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But the gear changes are almost instant, apart from low spec cars which is probably the same for m+c. How can people be faster than almost instant?

In higher class cars, particularly modern racecars with non-sequential gear boxes, using m+c does not give an acceleration advantage over just manual. In fact when you get to the highest performing cars (GP and Indy) it actually gives you a disadvantage. With almost all productions cars though m+c is a must, as manual will have a slight delay with every shift.

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It has been proven conclusively that you are faster in Forza using manual with clutch. If you want to be competitive against good players you are handicapping yourself by not using it.

You are right that it isn’t realistic, but that’s how it is.


Real race cars have actual drivers sat in the driving seat on a real racing track in the actual outdoors.

Not some bloke sat on his sofa in a pair of joggers, driving a car on a TV screen using a control pad, whose character is dressed up as a Halloween mummy.

This is Forza, not the real world, and like it or not, manual with clutch has been proven time and time again to be faster.


Did you switch the clutch with the handbrake so that you are pushing A+B to shift up or is the clutch still mapped to the lb button?

It’s usually faster in cars with manual from the factory but not in the others.

What’s unrealistic for me is that the cars have a minimum shift time which is lowered with the transmission upgrades, but there’s no penalty for shifting too quickly, so trading transmission PI for power PI is always better. Nevertheless, I hate the truck-like feel of stock clutch so I always upgrade clutch even though I’m ultimately slower.

What do you mean shifting too quickly? How can you shift too quickly?

If you’re driving a real car you paid real money it’s not advised that you shift gears as fast as you can jerk your arm. It’s not good for the syncros or the shift forks.

But if it’s your track car and pulling the transmission out every other track day is no problem, or it’s your virtual toy in a video game, then “too fast” isn’t really a thing.

I never could get the a+b down right. I use the paddles on my elite controller without clutch.
Manual with clutch I was told only helps in classes lower than S in multiplayer.

0P, you might want to check what buttons you mapped your clutch/shift to and make sure your not running sim damage. Incorrect shifts such as over revving or just missing the button push can damage the transmission if sim damage is turned on.

M+C also allows you to manually blip the throttle when downshifting to keep the chassis stable. I disagree that M+C isn’t faster when upshifting because it historically has been and it also feels much faster to me, but I’d be interested in testing it to confirm that this is still true in FM7.

It’s really nice that The game automatically power shifts for you ( rev matches ) when Shifting down manually. However, shifting up is a bit slower without clutch.