Invalidation system is far too fussy

This is driving me insane, pardon the pun. I feel it’s always been Forza’s Achilles Heel; laps are invalidated for the tiniest indiscretion, and it often feels like the game just cannot wait to mark your lap dirty.

I’ve noticed it a lot lately doing the Drift Events in rivals mode - I am absolutely certain there are times only my rear wheels run across the kerbs and immediately /!\ flashes as if I’ve just cut across a chicane like some scumbag cheater. Is there really any need for it? For hot laps I can maybe understand (despite how infuriating it is), but wheels on kerb in a drift event? Please.

I do appreciate that if everyone is at a disadvantage in this way, then nobody is at a disadvantage, but it’s so bad I spend more time watching the lap time/score clock than paying attention to the road, because I constantly assume I’ve dirtied another lap since I looked at that last apex too tightly. I’ve just finished a 20-lap race @ Spa in a Lambo Super Trofeo, and not ONE of my laps was clean according to the laws of Forza (none out of 20), it’s absurd really - the reality is, at least half my laps were totally clean had it been a genuine Blancpain event, and if I’m being honest only lap 1 was truly dirty with the usual first corner scuffle. I don’t think I have ever in my life watched a Formula 1/Super Gt/Blancpain/Endurance race and heard the commentators say “oh he’s went on to the kerb/run-off area there so his lap time won’t count…”

The worst has got to be when someone is driving behind you. What is the actual benefit here that requires the lap being invalidated? A millisecond, if that?

EDIT: I don’t know why that was starred out, I only wrote “Sc*m bag cheater”, is scum a swear word?

Turn on track limits until you are comfortable with them. As for drafting causing a dirty lap, people will time attack together one guy drafting the other they guy in a race. I guess this only affects homologated boards now where you can get a time in a race but it is an exploit and more than a millisecond can be gained.

Really? Almost every F1 race someone gets penalized for exceeding track limits.

1 Like

Yeah that was a bit of an exaggeration to be fair, the post was written in rant mode.
But I maintain my point - the /!\ is far too quick to light up, and it ruins countless laps totally unnecessarily. And tens of thousands of drift points disappearing because my rear wheels went sideways over some kerbs… it’s frustrating.

You must l not watch F1 much then. In the 10 years I’ve watched it I can probably count on 1 hand how many time drivers have been penalize for track limits. On most tracks all drivers extend corners like crazy in qualifying and the race.

As for track limits in Forza well it’s understandable that there has to be a point where you’re out of bounds but there should be a little give and take with drifting given the angle of the car as it reaches said limits.

2 Likes

You must have a 12 finger hand then, as in the 2017 F1 season; there was11 penalty allegations made for instances were drivers “left the track”. 5 of which allowed the drivers in question to gain a competitive advantage.

In the 2018 F1 season, there was 9 penalty allegations made for instances were drivers “left the track”. 7 of those instances allowed the drivers in question to gain a competitive advantage.

Further this, 14 instances were the drivers left the track in the 2016 F1 season also.

20 in 2015’s season

I am sure I dont need to go on.

1 Like

If your rear wheels go off track you lose the points…its the way it is…deal with it

one reason is that forza needs always to be different all others and the world.
Usually you get a penalty or dirty lap if all 4 tiers r off track, at forza7 3 tiers offtrack make a dirty lap

which is exactly the same in real world racing. Just watch any V8 Supercars event be watch the kerb hopping. 95% of drivers can successfully manage lap after lap keeping 2 wheels over the kerbs without getting penalties.

However, when 3 -4 wheels kerb hop, they loose seconds on the lap of it occurs kore than 3 times in one race. They can also insure a drive through penalty if that kerb hopping secures tham a position within the pack.

If ppl want the game like real car, then real penalties do apply I would imagine.

However, I do agree that the ‘Dirty Lap’ thing can often ruin an attempt to secure a fat clean lap when there’s ny other cars on the track. Even if you go to the extreme of being rightnon the opposite edge of the track as you pass a car, your lap becomes dirty simply by passing a car, even when outside any ‘drag effect’ would be applied by another car.

Or, when the following lap is clear of all cars, it remains dirty fir up to 2 additional laps before its cleared. This is not copying any form of real world racing rules, or even basic physics. So a cleannwipe like in Rivals challenges, where the preceding dirty lap is wiped so that you have a clean lap to work on.

Can’t that same process be introduced into normal racing?

The new track limits are definitely terrible.

I recall F1 hitting someone for violation of track limits at COTA a couple years ago.

NASCAR doesn’t know what a track limit is aside from the yellow line at Daytona and Talladega. Then when they do something like the Roval to keep them within the track limits it’s just endless complaints.

While I’m a fan of the revised track limits initiative and appreciative of the effort. They are too stringent. The limit should be the backside of the curbs instead of the front side. Rio and the Prague chicane has to be the worst.

As far as racing series’ go with their track limits, if it is a clear advantage you’ll get a warning followed a penalty if it’s an FIA sanctioned event. Unless they deem it to not be an advantage. IMSA has started implementing similar rules. But they aren’t as strict. NASCAR let’s the drivers run wide on exit and I’m not aware of any warnings or penalties.

2 Likes

For the record, most tracks and designers have clearly stated that kerbs are NOT part of the track, hence why the front part of kerbs is OUTSIDE the track limits projections in FM7. However, the penalty type and punishment varies by series.

In Nascar, all ovals have outer walls and an apron, going wide means you’re out of the race; some tracks like Phoenix are notorious for blatant ignorance of the apron line, Phoenix’s dogleg in particular where drivers are “allowed” to gain several positions and not get penalized (i hate Phoenix).

In WEC and F1, those are top shelf cars with high downforce, allowing drivers to take corners at otherwise improbable speeds. This usually results in many drivers being too confident on exits. I recall a WEC race at Silverstone recently where the leading Audi or Porsche LMP1 was warned at least FIVE times during the race for exceeding track limits at the exit of the final turn of the lap (approaching the start line).

With F1 and WEC, most track limits seem to be enforced during the race only as those are position races; during practice and qualifying, drivers are battling for the pole time and therefore track limits (as much as I am aware) are relaxed. That being said, because of the runoff and height of the kerbs, the drivers end up losing time anyway due to having to regain control and protect the car from gravel and access road gradients.

I’ve never understood why people say the chicanes need less strict track limits. The whole point of a chicane is slow you down. If you could just blow through it, it wouldn’t really be doing its job, would it?

1 Like

I have no problem with where they put any track limits on a fictional track such as Rio or Prague. It’s their track design and their perogative how they are drawn even if I’m used to it one way and feel the track was better the old way. Their tracks certainly aren’t the only tracks with paved surface between walls that is rightfully not racing surface. But if they’re trying to teach people to drive correctly but they won’t let you use the curbing that is used by every racing driver at every level in every series that runs on a given real track that’s really not cool. And it isn’t just chicanes. The esses at ViR are ruined by the track limits as they were redrawn. There are other similar non-chicane examples as well. The claim of hand redrawing the track limits is totally bogus when they obviously just follow the painted lines around the track.

Just following up, as far as I know, in ALL racing rules, it clearly claims that any 3-4 wheels that go ‘completely’ outside the kerb boundary, will insure avpenality.

However, running 2 wheels over the edges of any kerb or road edge will NOT insure a penalty. This is the same in Forza 7. Whenever I enable the track limiters, (not permeates, but proportional) so they show up as I approach, then go blue etc then yellow and finallynred when I exceed the limit.

I learn where I can place the car (from inside the cockpit view) in order to stay just ‘on the limits’ before going Red. I learn where my referencevpoint on the car is in relation to the track edges to keep it ‘clean’.

Just like in real life. I did 13 laps out at Sydney’s Eastern Creek in a V8 Supercar last year, andvthey push you to drive ON THE KERBS to keep the line. But the instructors jump on you when you take the 3-4 wheels off the race line. As this throws the car into a different vehicle behaviour. It will fight you to continue wanting to go straight away from the line. Whereas when this two outside or inside wheels run over or on the left or right hand turn ‘kurbs’, then the car ‘pushes’,through the corner with the right acceleration input.

So, Yes, keep 2 wheels outside, not 3-4 wheels and you should be fine. Adjust your reference points to accomodate your driving style.

1 Like

We all massively struggled with the new track limits while preparing for the FRC and went through these exact feelings!

In the end we concluded that you just need to reign in your expectations of the track and retrain almost every corner approach and exit! good luck!

1 Like

Very true. So many users have become lazy in their racing practices. Unlike real world racers, where rules are ‘strictly enforced’ no matter who you are or your racing record. Break the rules, suffer the conciquences.

Agreed, New track limits make it much harder to do clean lap, but I’ve adapted my lines to deal with it, it’s a positive update overall i think.

Thing that annoys me most is when game marks following lap dirty even if messed up 3 corners before. Eg. At Monza the chicane literally 1/2 track before start/finish.