Ok, not literally. But figuratively.
We all know that intentional wreckers are our greatest enemy. So, how do we stop them, really stop them.
First of all, we need to understand that what we often perceive to be intentional wrecking, is more than likely poor skill or incidental contact gone bad.
Second, create a private chat lobby and invite the better drivers. Then, invite someone who you see is struggling. Just getting them into a chat lobby with clean racers and treating them properly, will go a long way towards mentoring those who need our help. Think about it. If we did this in every race lobby, we really could make a difference.
Treat them right, point them towards the better tunes and paints, offer suggestions in a positive way. Take one of them under your wing and give them a friendly nudge in the right direction. Sometimes, the desire to belong can be a great motivational tool.
I would much rather help someone become a clean fast racer. Even if they start beating me, than to start my races with damage, spend unnecessary time in the pits, and then not finish.
This is something we can do. I have seen it work, so I know it can. Just think back to the time when you didn’t have a group of racers to join with. Think about how motivated you became when someone gave you that one time that put you high up on the leaderboard. We all had to start somewhere.
If we are going to unite this community, it’s going to take better players, making an effort to include struggling racers.
I pledge to do my part.
I certainly will support this initiative and quite sure the rest of my AMR private race group will join to promote this. At the end of the day it’s in all our interst, so aiding is the least we can do.
Honestly hoping this will not derail your good intentions, but if the primary purpose of this is to assist in uniting the community, I think we all should simultaneously do simmilar to the other side of the coin too - that is our top drivers/tuners and old timers who were met with some venomosity the last few days. I do not want to argue, side or invite deleberation on this, save to say that contrary to what seems to be popular belief, we all need them for their expertise and what they can/do offer and rather than alienating them (like some did), they sure can add good value to both your initiative and assist in “developing” the new/younger community.
I don’t have a problem with anyone, no matter how fast they are or how our discussions went over the last few days. My only problem was with the path, attitude and language they chose. I agree with a lot of what they were demanding, just not the way they were demanding it.
Our community is fractured, and it really will take a conscious effort on the part of a lot of folks to make a positive change. This idea is just something I have seen work, and I felt I should share it.
I am not online as much now that it is spring and hibernation is over in Michigan. This brings lots of yard work but I am 100% in on this. We have to start somewhere and this seems to be a very logical step in a very good direction! I can show them how to be pretty clean but the fast thing you all will have to show them as I am not the fastest, LOL
I don’t use a mic but often message tips and constructive criticism to folks who are struggling. I really hope people take notice of this and put it into practice.
Maybe, I’ll try it. It’s just so gratifying to see the “What did I do to deserve a ban, I’m a clean racer” post and have Snowowl tell them “no, you’re not”
This only works with serious racers. The casual racer which now hold the majority so I have been led to belive are not interested in getting better. They are deluded shouting out in the chat how bad everyone else is.
Anyone that knows me on forza knows I give chance after chance to racers constantly sticking up for them with excuse after excuse. I stopped doing this when I realised they only play once maybe twice then get board and play gta.
Your better off consentrating on the very capable drivers who are desperate to win but get extremely fustrating when they don’t. Along with the elites who belive ramming you because your using a leaderboard car against there gt is exceptable.
I’m not particular about who anyone should reach out to, as long as it’s someone who is struggling. I believe many of those casual racers can be converted to die hard Forza fans, if we mentor them into the racing culture. I agree that there are many who have the ability and try to win, but just are not skillful enough. They need help too. I have mentioned the “fast” before and got flamed for it. I have reviewed many replays where the self professed “fast” drivers plow through the field aggressively. Pushing people off the track, bumping, punting and spinning people out, because they think “fast” entitles them to the track. These folks are one of the biggest groups of offenders and, YES, we need to reach out to them as well. They will be the most challenging group, but in the end, their aggressive behavior will stand out as intentional griefing and they will either have to stop it and learn the correct way, or be reported. I’m really hoping we can convert them into positive members of the community.
This is because many of the “fast” drivers are just memorizers. They drive the same cars on the same tracks over and over and over again.
They have no understanding of over-under moves or using their cars strengths to set up a pass. They just know their path and others are just in the way. Fast RACERS have trouble with these morons too.
This is something that has come about from People thinking that following replay ghosts are the way to become quick. Almost all of the fast RACERS from forza 2 have stopped playing and have been replaced with these “memorizers”. Those of us who are left play very little due to the clear meta change where they believe leaderboard placement equals respect. No one gives a damn you can run 3 seconds slower in the top car and still grab a top 20.
Private lobbies only, forced respect and understanding within the community or you delt with banishment from not being allowed in a lobby. Morons were self regulated by not being allowed to race till they straightened out.
The fast people have an obligation to the community to drive random cars and show others that there are hundreds of competitive cars, not just the 10 everyone knows.
I think it’s more the job of the game than a job of the community. Like I said in previous threads, if the game explains and learns them the assists it would increase the numbers of hard forza fans.
And you can’t change most of the people. This is also a real life lesson; you can not change people, even when you think you can. People have to change themself. They ENJOY wrecking, they don’t want to play the game in any different way. Like kids who shoot me in Halo when I’m their team mate.
Do you know why most of our overtakes seem to be so aggressive? Because we don’t want to fight a position with someone who is 5 seconds slower a lap. But many defend like their life depends on it. This isn’t a serious race, this is a random online race and you get inpatient easily when one of those people blocks you all the time. Often I take a turn reaaaally wide to get some room and accelerate out faster over the straight, and when I accelerate I still hit their back immedately. I mean what the hell, do they drive with active handbrake?
People can change, and often do when properly motivated to do so. I’m not saying that anyone can change someone else. What I am saying is that by inviting those who struggle into parties with those who race clean, we are creating an opportunity to expose them to how it should be done.
Sure, there are a lot of casual gamers who will never change. But those people usually move on to another game rather quickly. Those who hang around Forza have some interest in it, and I believe the right approach is to welcome them in and mentor them as best we can.
As for aggressive passing. There isn’t really any justification for bumping someone off the track or spinning then out. That same energy could be used to set up a proper pass. They may slow you down, but if you are that good, you should be able to work it out. In real life, cars don’t get out of the way when being passed or lapped. They choose a line and it’s the passing/lapping cars responsibility to initiate a clean pass. Slower, less experienced drivers are part of racing, and there is no justification for being overly aggressive with them.
I realize that can be difficult with the intentional griefers, but it’s not impossible to slide right past them.
What have you got to lose by trying to help out a slower driver? You were a noob once too.
From my own point of view there is literally nothing I enjoy more than having to work to set up a clean pass. I’ll happily spend a couple of laps doing it. But beyond a certain skills gap it becomes much harder for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, it’s actually harder to set up a move against a bad driver because following someone closely when you have literally no idea where they are going to do something strange is really, really hard. Much harder than following someone just a little slower than you but basically competent. Someone who is willing to crash into you to keep you behind, rather than play fair, often cannot be passed cleanly. This doesn’t happen in the real world because drivers just aren’t (usually) reckless enough. They don’t just turn into you when you’ve got alongside them on the inside, or drift out and push you off when you go around the outside. Beginners in Forza do this regularly.
In a clean pass there’s a responsibility on both drivers to show sense. That responsibility doesn’t all transfer to the more experienced driver just because the less experienced one doesn’t know it care about it.
The second problem is simply that I play the game for a specific reason - to race people who are competitive with me. I don’t race to pound noobs into the dust. But in order for me to get any enjoyment out of the game at all I have to make it past the noobs early enough to have a decent race. If I’m going to spend 3 laps behind a car that is miles slower than me but determined to keep me behind and will only let me past if I can out-power them in the middle of a straight (which may not be possible), not because they’re slow but because they have no race craft, then I won’t have time to catch any of the people I want to race and I literally may as well just quit out. That’s the problem with the hopper system: it looks like one race, but it’s actually several different races going on around the same track. Most drivers realise this and make adjustments -,I certainly make myself easy to pass when someone 3 seconds per lap faster is on my tail and I regularly have an easy time passing good mid-field drivers because they’re giving me that same respect, but the very newest or least-intersted players, who usually happen to be the slowest, often don’t realise and think they’re racing everyone in the lobby.
I agree with all that too! It CAN be very difficult to pass someone who is all over the track and not holding anything that even resembles a racing line. It CAN slow you down OR end up in a frustrating collision. I get it. It happens to me every night in leagues.
I have learned to be very cautious when passing anyone I am not familiar with. I will often slow down and ride behind them a few hundred feet, trying to anticipate their next move and their intentions. When an opportunity presents itself, I make a run hard to the open side of the track. But, I am always ready to quickly change my line and feint to the other side. When they shift back I can usually go back to the open side and slide right past, while they are still waiting for the impact. It probably costs me 10-15 seconds to do this, but it beats being wrecked. Usually this kind of pass is required very early in the race and very late in the race, and it works fine for me about 80% of the time. The other 20% I end up in the pits or at the back of the pack. And occasionally, in the execution of the pass, I clip the car I am passing. But if he has changed his racing line several times and I make a clean move to pass and get cut in on, that’s racing. I try to let you hem know through chat, that I am going to pass, but 9 times out of 10 they don’t respond or chat just isn’t working.
There are going to be accidents. There is going to be hard racing and the normal incidental rubbing and bumping that comes with it. It’s the pit maneuvers, punting and pushing off the track that is unacceptable. That’s why I spend so much time reviewing replays from the perspective of each driver. So I don’t report someone for what is just competitive racing.
You see, we really are not far apart on what we want.
While I 100% agree helping people is nice the person you are trying to help needs to be open and coachable. There have been plenty of times where I have tried to help somebody out and they just wont take advice. Advice ranging from how to properly brake all the way to how to tune. Its amazing how many people out there refuse to drive somebody else’s build/tune. That’s called pride and some people will never swallow their pride. There is nothing wrong with driving somebodys car and then saying “this feels better then what I had, could I get that build and tune?” Most people will help somebody in need but there has to be somebody needing help or open to help.
You are absolutely correct. Not everyone will be open to this idea. In fact, most will probably ignore an invitation to party chat. But, we need to make the effort. There are people who will respond to this, and the more we can reach, the faster things will improve.
This isn’t a magic bullet. It’s just my crazy idea to TRY and improve multiplayer. There are more things we can do, but it’s best to focus on one thing at a time, in my opinion.
I think this will help reach out to the newer drivers. Some of you faster drivers have thay edge other drivers dont have for being fast around a track. Sometimes I would spectate on some races just to see the guys in the back struggling to keep up with the guys in last place. When I say struggle I mean like almost 5 seconds after the count down timer to end race. Yet they would race and not quit even though they come in last. I sorta feel bad now not talking to them or trying to help them but I am not that great at racing either. Good looking out for the struggling drivers Zedeeyen this sorta idea will keep most from becoming lobby rammers.
