Forza's steering and braking model

This certainly would help to know if the wheels are actually freezing and or then suddenly turning… OR… if it is simply a graphical glitch accompanied by a Slide/Push…

Good Call “Will Driver C”…

Just out of curiosity, what is the telemetry displaying when this occurs? There is a steering lock value on the first telemetry screen which shows how much the wheel is turning left/right.

I just want this assist gone, its starting to bug me. And because of it you can’t push cars as hard as you would want to. Steering inputs are not tied with a rope to the brake or throttle IRL as one of you put it!

Wish Forza would shed its simcade roots and emerge as a mature simulator. The developers can include options to make the experience more casual for racing game lovers but honestly, if I were to use Forza as a tool to learn real motorsport or precision high speed driving skills, I wouldn’t get to the finish line in one piece.

Why do wheel users get full control and additional options to adjust how the steering works? Why can’t we have these options on a controller? There was no such bug in FM2 or 3… this hidden controller aid trend started with FM3. FM2 didn’t even have speed sensitive steering and what I want future games to have is to let the player steer however they want, and accept the consequences.

Why do they keep finding ways to make the game easier or limit the physics?

Really fed up with this. I was hoping FM6 would ditch the controller aid and SSS, but no. Probably won’t happen in the next game either, and no I won’t get a wheel to experience the “full spectrum of physics”.

I would most probably switch to another franchise, like PCARS 2 or AC. They both give players the freedom to steer cars however they want, unlike Forza’s on-rails controller steering. I’m sorry, if this is coming off harsh, I’ve loved the Forza games for over a decade now, but the game seems to be getting easier, not more challenging and more true to life.

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I’m with you about wanting forza to be more of a simulation. Parts of the driving experience have in my eyes have got easier over time.
However this controller assist has been in the game since the very beginning. The main reason T10 put the situation steering was to have a setting that you are able to lessen a lot of the assist’s that are on the controller. I say lessen because I think T10 have worked out that if they took them off completely the game would be undrivable on a controller.
Wheel users do not require some of these assist’s. Not only that some of these assist would actually make a wheel feel disjointed & probably a pretty horrible experience. The extra options are pretty much the degrees of steering angle & nothing else!
T10 have tried to make the game feel nice for wheel users & controller users. Wheel users are given the option to use the full angle of the users equipment. That’s probably good business being as this is a driving game! I’m sure there’s always room for improvement of course but taking this assist off the controller would be suicide!

I do way better with it off or way down in real simulators so no it wouldn’t be suicide and I don’t find it any easier at all.

Why force this assist on? It´s pathetic.

TC: you can turn off
ABS and other assist´s you can disable. But this steering cap you can´t.

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Does Simulation Steering not disable the steering assist?

You can’t unfortunately, as long as you use the pad.

I understand where you’re coming from, and that the devs want to make it fun on a controller, but what’s wrong with offering the player options to dial it down or up, or even turn it off according to their preference? Surely that wouldn’t be suicide would it?

It’s a shame you have to buy a wheel to really ‘throw’ your car around corners and push it harder the way you can IRL.

I don’t see any harm at all by adding different options to adjust or toggle this setting on/off. Wheel users can adjust between different degrees of motion and FFB. Why can we not have additional advanced settings for a controller? The steering feels on-rails because of this. It’s like you want to push your car harder, and the game reminds you: “Now now… take it easy there hotshot… let’s not get any ideas today”…!!!

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Simulation steering does allow you to turn the assist down! Just not all the way.
By turning simulation steering on you allow the front wheels to have more angle of friction. This steering assist though is also an auto retreave assist because because it helps you catch the point of grip in the slide. So by lessening it the car becomes a lot more twitchy.
It’s more of a challenge but you should be faster. Maybe they could bring this option in on a slider type system like you say. But then becomes almost another complete tuning system without changing the car! That could be complicated.

Every simulator on the market besides forza allows you to change speed sensitivity, so no it isn’t complicated. And lock assist and speed sensitivity are two entirely different things. We are discussing the fact that speed sensitivity is so intrusive it hurts performance on some cars, and amounts to training wheels in a mode that is labelled simulation.

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That’s not true that all simulations have a speed sensitivity setting? How many sims have you played? & are you playing those on a controller?? Also you were not speaking of speed sensitivity! Forza has increased the speed sensitivity since 4! If you think you can turn quicker on a wheel then you’ve never used one! If you think the steering is slow get in your real car and time how long it takes you to get from lock to lock. Bet you your slower than forza!

Speed sensitivity is why you can’t turn the wheel more than 10 to 15 degrees after a certain speed. The wheel locks. Have you not been following the conversation? And assetto corsa and project cars, iracing, rfacter, all have the ability to adjust it. This isn’t about the speed you can turn the wheel, it’s about the limit of travel. For whatever reason they have implemented a hard limit on steering movement that switches on at higher speeds. It jarring, and ridiculous and ruins any attempt at realism or feel for some of the cars.

If you don’t play with a controller, then how do you even know what we are talking about, and why are you defending it?

And as far as fair competition goes your controller set up has no bearing on what your car can do obviously, otherwise it would note wheel or controller users.

And the constant exclamation points are a bit unnecessary, I have no idea what you are trying to convey but I’m probably interpreting it in a way you don’t intend. I’m usually not a stickler for correct English or spelling but it’s frankly as annoying as all caps, because it means the same thing.

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I just started playing the game this weekend using a Logitech wheel and I feel I have to work to hard to drive the cars. By that I mean hard braking, careful turn in and throttle application. Generally I’m really slow around the tracks I know. Yet in Forza 4 driving was more smooth as for me than it is now.

Smoothness is the key to speed majority of the time if you need help with tuning or just general driving advice then shoot me a FR. I’m sure can help I have a fanatec csw but principles are the same!

Also how do you think these speed & sensitivity settings will work on rivals mode with a stock car??? I guess it will come down to your controller setting :-1:. Sometimes people should just think before they post unproductive complaints. I think T10 has enough to deal with getting the main stuff right!

Honestly, you clearly don’t understand what we are talking about, so maybe you should do some thinking before you post.

Read all my posts again you might understand!

If you can answer all the questions, answer them.

I’m an engineer who works for the leading motorsports transmission supplier. So I’m thinking I got a better grip than most!
I have played the game since the beginning. With wheel & pad, playing from fm1 as well as many other “SIMS”.
I’m in need to get a grip on thread?

I’m trying to help, but I guess as forza’s worked out there’s no helping some people.

Look the steering angle range is reduced after a certain speed this is a fact. This isn’t necessary to control the car, that is a fact. It is detrimental to performance, that is a fact. I’m not sure what to tell you, but no there is no helping me understand your or their point of view that I need a crutch to control the car. Maybe you do, I don’t care, I just want an option to turn it off.

And no your work on transmissions doesn’t give you a better grasp on the subject at all. You are refusing to to recognize something that’s very easy to see. How long you’ve been playing also has no relevance, and I’m dumbfounded as to how you have never encountered the steering angle reduction at speed, or how you figure this is in any way realistic or correct. How about you name a single simulation in which this occurs, because if you play any other simulation then you do just fine without it. That and you also very well know how silly it is to state it the lap times on leaderboards would be affected by having control over your input method or that it’s unfair. And lastly, nobody asked for your help, we asked turn 10 to remove the training wheels, like people have been doing for 10 years now. If you like it that way, that’s fine, but it’s no skin off your back for us to have the option, so really you aren’t being helpfull at all to anyone here.

You obviously didn’t read my post’s. I just explained how the steering system works & why I think that T10 set it up that way. How do you think I can explain it if I’ve never experienced it? At no point did I say its realistic to have this assist. It’s part of forza & always has been.
Now I never said anything about me wanting it changed. Like you say it doesn’t matter to me. I’ve got a wheel & a controller. So I can run with or without this assist. I said a scale system might be a good idea. One thing that you can garantee, is that this game will not be updated with what you want…
Apart from the fact that I’ve tried to help you with your driving. I’ve explained why the way you want to drive is slow & you’ll be cooking your front tires.
You do have a choice with this game as I told you. If you want to run without this assist buy a wheel. If it’s so jarring as you say. Then you can play it on all these other sims that you play & get some proper realism. Try PC sims where you need a wheel to play well.
Then you might realise that all the games your talking about probably have similar assistance for controllers. Also that when you try to drive by pushing through the understeer it’s not good practice.
So stop sounding off like a spoiled child! I have tried to help.
I’m not sticking up for T10 there’s more that can be done here. Although in terms of priorities this should be put to the bottom of the list, FOR THIS Game!