For the love of everything automotive, remove drivetrain swaps

Hearing Mike Brown talk about how most of the unnecessary engine swaps being removed literally made me cheer with joy. While looking back I suspect that’s just flavor talk and all the annoying little kids will be able to cram a V12 into a muscle car simply because it fits IRL, it’s still a very good look for the game.

The engine swaps were annoying enough and i’m glad they’re receiving some kind of “nerf” so to speak as i’m still holding out for being able to swap drivetrains (for at least majority of the cars) getting canned from the game, as it’s completely overpowered and worst of all, hinders actual skill. Swapping a RWD car to AWD made it perform better than actual, stock AWD cars. Not to mention all the posts I see on Reddit (and here sometimes too) complaining about how “bad” the stock cars are and about how they’re always spinning out and such. No, the stock cars are great, YOU just keep using a crutch that sets the driving to baby mode. Then with online, basically any remotely competitive car MUST be AWD swapped, and swapping cars to AWD just makes them drive all the same, it’s like Forza Horizon 2 all over again.

Then for the final complaint about drivetrain swaps, they’re not even a real thing! Modern cars nowadays have computer systems designated for their stock drivetrain. You’d need to code a whole new system and probably find a way to jailbreak your car’s computer systems and THEN install the AWD system which most of the time doesn’t even fit. At least engine swaps are a common thing!

If we are keeping drivetrain swaps (which we likely are) MAKE SURE to limit them to a SMALL handful of cars that are all very underpowered stock, with most or preferably all being cars that can take IRL drivetrain swaps, like the older Honda Civics.

Please, it hurts the balance of the game, it hurts the community and it’s skill, it hurts the newer players who will complain all cars drive the same after upgrading them, it hurts the small bit of realism this game has, just please.

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Swaps allow for making fascinating (drift) builds so l already disagree with this sentiment.

What the game needs is a balance between fwd, rwd and awd types. Each having their strenghts and weaknesses and the drivetrain swaps will just allow you to navigate that balance.

Removing swaps would be a huge step backwards and l’m glad there is practically no chance of that happening.
Some of my fave cars in FH4 were an awd swapped rally Acura Integra or a rwd swapped Nissan R35 drift build.

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whoever made this post suggested that if they are going to stay, they should be realistic and for cars that already support it, like the 2 cars u mentioned above. now that the monaro has a drivetrain swap, i doubt drivetrain swaps are going/becoming realistic.

I am pretty sure when he said that he was only referring to cars that already don’t have them like some of the older D Class cars that should never have them.
I would disagree with your post on the idea that taking away any customizations would be a bad thing. It’s like taking away civil liberties and that is always a step back.

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I’m against removing it based on principle. AWD swaps are possible on almost any car IRL. True, most of the time you’d have to severely modify the car, including replacing all the electronics, and the process would cost more than most cars brand new, but it’s possible. And Forza Horizon has always been about freedom, so I never want that taken away. I would point out there are a few cars that do have AWD versions, but they aren’t available in the game. The 2019 Porsche 911 Carrera S for example. The 4S is a real thing, but it’s not in the game.

However, there needs to be better balance between 2WD and AWD cars. I also would like for drivetrain restrictions to be a thing for races. We actually saw it for a short while in 4 on the playlist. RWD, FWD, and 2WD restrictions popped up in the playlist, and it was wonderful. You also can set drivetrain restrictions in a private adventure, which I find odd. Why there but not other places? I’d really love it if those restrictions return, both on the playlist and as an option for blueprinted races and (the hopefully returning) custom championships.

Having a drivetrain restriction for online competitive also makes a ton of sense to me. I’d even be willing to go so far as to say that there, cars should be restricted to their natural drivetrains.

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I’m forever reading posts that cry out about how (I’m paraphrasing) “I’ve played Horizon since forever, and it’s always been about the freedom to play the way I want to play,” or something to that affect. The forum is riddled with that sentiment. But whenever people post proposals/***** lists crying for whatever self-serving substantial change to gameplay, 98% percent of the time it’s really more to suit their personal playing style or narrow idealistic/Puritan vision for what they think racing should be ― and to hell with everyone else.

Almost never is there any consideration for anyone else’s ‘freedom’ to play however they prefer. It’s not enough for one to simply race a particular drivetrain exclusively, or stick to one preferred surface type religiously, or avoid game modes that include a race type they just can’t tolerate, no…rather the changes so urgent and necessary always seem to be more about changing the way others play, with any and all results tailored to the way they want to see them, and putting the onus of any change/adaptation on everyone else …if otherwise not about removing something from the game entirely altogether.

Just an observation.

(That said, judging from all the off-roading I’ve seen in H5 gameplay video thus far, I’m pretty sure AWD swaps aren’t going anywhere.:man_shrugging:t2:)

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I like the drivetrain swaps. I just wish there was a FWD swap as well.

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You madman. I mean, I’m down with it and I support it being added to the game, bit still… You madman.

I can’t deny the madness. I have a fetish for making rear engine cars FWD. Currently I have to jury rig it by using AWD and shifting the power 100% to the front.

Of course, I like FWD in general, too, but that’s not nearly as mad.

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As an unashamed 911 fanboy I am both offended and amused.

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I’m all in favor of removing them in Forza Motorsport. In Horizon, though? Nah, Horizon is a screw around, do really dumb stuff game, that includes doing insane things like giving an MR2 AWD. I want that to stay. If anything, it should be expanded. Let me make the Ferrari F40 a mid-engined, front-wheel-drive car. Let me put a second engine in the front of the Porsche 914 and make it a double engined car that send power to the front and rear wheels separately. Let me do the dumbest, funniest things imaginable, it’s what I come to Horizon for.

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Every time I see the whining about the engine swaps or the drivetrain swaps, it proves to me that those people know almost NOTHING about real world engine or drivetrain swaps. Things like “Project Binky” where that team is painstakingly creating a 4WD Mini Cooper, or the “Expert Nakamura S30Z” from the late 90’s that used a full R32 GTR engine and AWD system with 1200 horsepower that could smoke all 4 tires at once, or the modern Hemi engine swaps in Jeeps, or the ubiquitous Chevy V8 swaps into any and all cars it will fit in. Tons of people around the world do engine and drivetrain swaps that I disagree with, but I would never try to stop them from doing those swaps or mods because the number 1 car on my Most Wanted IRL car list is a full engine AND drivetrain swapped Datsun 280Z with the Nissan R34 GTR engine and drivetrain, but unlike the Expert Nakamura S30Z, I would want a clean installation, the EN car looked like it had a lift kit installed.

The whining about RWD vs FWD vs 4WD also proves that people know nearly nothing about the tuning options in these games and what those tuning options actually DO. I’ve personally seen an entire field of 4WD cars get decimated by someone who could tune a high end RWD or FWD car, and I’ve also done it myself. 4WD is not the end-all be-all solution most people think it is, it all depends on the tuning level of the cars and the track where they’ll be racing.

And honestly if they get Mexico even a little bit right in FH5, you will NEED 4WD more than ever because there’s not much road paving happening outside of the cities anywhere in Mexico.

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I don’t think this is a big deal at all.

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Something wrong with RWD, if they fixed it then AWD wouldn’t be so necessary. What I think is wrong with RWD is that Angular Momentum has a bug in it that when it goes past 3 O Clock, and 9 O Clock it spins out too fast.

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That’s 100% in your suspension and differential settings, it’s not a bug in the game.

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It’s a programming error, it happens if you swing the car from side to side, they decided to spin you out. It’s like a punishment spinout. The programmer must have thought, “If the car is doing that they would spin out!” The angular momentum starts to take control of the car. Or they just programmed it wrong, at 90 Deg the angular momentum accelerates to 170 Deg. That would probably happen in a cheap old Fiat, but these aren’t cheap old Fiats.

Anyway if it was just suspension, and differential settings then the shared tunes would work OK, but they don’t. It’s the same in Motorsport 7 as well, I just did the Viper Challenge at the end of Level 1, and the car was all over the place with no traction control. On slopes the rear end couldn’t move the car without spinning. Which would mean that according to you there is a challenge in the game with suspension and differential settings out of whack.

It sounds to me like what you’re encountering is the slightly odd way counter-steering has worked in the series for a bit. With normal steering the game only lets you turn the wheels so far, but once you start to turn one way if you turn the other direction the wheels will turn farther which can easily lead to a spin - moreso in RWD, of course. I just assumed that it’s working as intended.

Mind you, I’ve found RWD vehicles easier to handle in Motorsport/Horizon since the series have been on XBOne.

EDIT: Disclaimer - I noticed and tested the above behaviour in Motorsport awhile back. I’m assuming it also happens in Horizon.

That’s exactly what it is, but if you do it 3 times in a row you are punished for it. Also uphill it is worse with gravity turning the front of the car downwards. Anyone with Motorsport 7 can test the Viper Challenge uphill with Normal Steering, no traction control, and automatic gears, and no car straightening. You will get to a hill where you have to slow right down, and if that was real life every driver would eventually spin out in a Viper. It is the same in FH4, but I can’t think of a part of the game that is like the Viper Challenge with everything set up for you… you can’t tune the car.

I have to disagree with you. i switch nearly all cars to RWD. I only have a few AWD cars (which came that way). I prefer RWD cars. As I understand your point about AWD conversions, maybe some people need AWD to be able to drive it. So scrapping it might not be the best route. Maybe have lobbies that are RWD or FWD or AWD exclusively can fix the problem.

And cars are swapped to RWD all the time in the real world. Mainly FWD to RWD and AWD to RWD. but it is common place.

Just a thought

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Just a cursory internet search will tell that while drivetrain swaps are rare they are very much a real thing. Your subjective opinion is not the objective truth.

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