Extremely dumb question about NOT ramming into other players Online

Why’s that? I keep reading in places like Reddit how rammers should be banned / stop playing Forza etc. but nobody has explained it to me.

Now before someone makes assumptions. Nope I am not a rammer, in fact I never play Online modes besides getting the achievements. Online thing I may play is Trial, where it is Cooperative against I.A. So I have no problems if another person from my team wants to pass me. Chances are they drive better so better chances for us to win.

But I recently been forced to play online mode as I’m trying to get the Eliminator achievements. In fact, over there the objective is WINNING the head to head races to eliminate the other person and get to keep playing. And even so, I have had nobody trying to ram me. In fact, I’ve had two or three races where I just passed over the other person and they never crashed into me or tried to make me crash into the trees etc.

BUT it’s so weird to me, it would be as if in a shooter game the rule were “don’t shoot if they shot first, as they saw you first so the sportsmanship’s thing to do is let them win” or if on a fighting game “hey they already combo’d you. Be a good sportsmanship and don’t try to counter it. Just accept the hits.” What’s the point in playing PvP if I am not trying to win?

Or is it that Forza series aims for older people who have more important things in life than videogames and nobody really cares anymore about winning or losing? I’m 24 years old, and I’d normally don’t care if I win or lose a race, but there are some achievements that require me to win, for example, three Head to Head races in a single Eliminator game…

I am not trolling, you can see my Forza level to see this isn’t someone new to the series. I just never bothered with online until recently and I’m curious on why ramming isn’t allowed. I won’t start ramming into people by the way, it’s just curiosity.

In Eliminator, do everything you can to eliminate your foes (it’s even in the mode’s name), ramming is perfectly fine in there. In races, ramming is considered dirty, don’t ram if you don’t want to be seen as a bad guy.

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Eliminator you’re right, all bets are off and do whatever you can to win. It is called The Eliminator after all!

But normal racing I’d say its pretty bad sport to ram people, I’ve always felt ‘rubbing is racing’ is a good phrase, yeah be competitive, hold your line etc but deliberately ramming I wouldn’t condone.

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Imagine this is a real race with real cars. Would ramming be permitted there? No! Ramming damages equipment and injures drivers. Sure, there is some incidental contact, but intentionally wrecking competitors would probably get you run out of the industry and possibly criminally charged with vehicular assault.

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Rammers shoud be banned…because the rules say it’s so:

"At Turn 10, we look at four broad categories of enforcement action. These apply to Forza Titles, Forza Discord, Forza forums and Forza streams.

Unsportsmanlike conduct – this pertains mainly intentional race disruption, such as wrecking, ramming, spearing, and shoving.

Going out of your way to intentionally cause wrecking in multiplayer races goes against the spirit of the game and can result in enforcement action."

There’s a world of difference between winning and wining at all costs. Accidentally hitting someone because you got your braking point wrong is one thing…deliberately not braking to make someone go off the track to miss a checkpoint is another. And we are not taking into account the huge number of people who have no interest in winning…their sole focus is to ruin the races of others.

This is the big problem FH4 has always had: The game does not reward good racing skills or good racing in general. FH3 had the skills bonus part which encouraged clean and fair racing…FH4 just removed any incentive to learn to drive.

A lot of people simply want to go online and race…on the rare occasions I go online, I just want to race against other people to test my skills…being involved in a Demolition Derby is not my idea of fun, I’d play Wreckfest if that’s what I wanted.

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I really like that part of the game in FH3, you could get a good finish even a podium just by racing clean and fair.

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Any ‘racing’ game where you can ‘win’ without being first is stupid though. Good that they ditched that silly system for FH4. But the participation award mentality so prevalent in society nowadays is returning for FH5 apparently.

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True…but at least the FH3 system promoted clean racing…FH4, by contrast, encourages dirty racing, ramming and everything else (even if they have made a belated token gesture to combat it)

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To be honest, the fact that this thread exists kind of emphasises the problem (and that’s not intending to blame the OP). It could easily be explained in game why ramming is not acceptable and a slowdown system imposed in single player. People would soon learn to drive properly if that was the case.

As for the original question, ramming is generally regarded as unacceptable in most racing games (save for ones like Wreckfest or Mario Kart). In most, as in Forza, it is expressly banned and is therefore cheating if you try and do it, as you are exploiting the lack of a proper penalty/moderation system. Most people want to win but will be aiming to do so cleanly, as the aim is to be quicker than your opponent, not better at smashing them into a wall.

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Ramming…the act of poor sportsmanship and the sign of bad parenting…bad parents create bad offspring. DNA is fact not fictional. endure…means to. suffer patiently…ramming is not a form of suffering or any form of racing worthy of participating in. race with some common sense for what your doing, or there is plenty of room to go out in the jackyard to play house with yourself. my advice to mr moose and captain crunch…is stop settling for being an online bully…be a part of the betterment of this game and its public lobbies or, not at all.

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Okay, thank you to the people who have provided me actual arguments / reasons as to why ramming shouldn’t be considered while playing this series. Guess it makes sense and thanks for actually providing arguments rather than “don’t do it because it’s bad and you suck if you do it.” :grinning:

By the way, I’m still blown away that in ELIMINATOR I haven’t encountered people who ram into me. Everyone who challenges me or who I challenge plays clean lol despite common sense telling me that this should be “Win at all costs”. Guess people don’t really mind winning or losing.

I think the big thing for me is that the entirely open nature of ramming means that this game teaches you how to be a good rammer, not a good driver. Even with the rules, restrictions, and punishments they’ve added, you see people who aren’t the best drivers, but have found every way to cheat and take advantage of the FH system. Sure I can beat them usually, but often is only by fighting fire with fire, and I don’t want to race that way. It lacks both immersion and integrity.

In real racing, there is an exhausting number of rules to not only prevent ramming, but also prevent people from taking advantage of those rules.

This could all be solved by ghosting everyone and preventing contact, but the game would lose some character, and I don’t want that when I’m racing with friends. It’s a tough subject to solve, and frankly it’s a lot easier from a lot of perspectives to just add social pressure and villify rammers.

So yeah, rammers are jerks who shouldn’t be playing the game.

PS jockeying for position is A-OK in my books. Think of this way: if the move was made to gain or secure a physical space and someone else is competing for that space and you happen to collide, I’m ok with it. If the move was made in order to maliciously hamper an opponent, or to (purposefully) steal stopping power, or both, that’s ramming.

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The worst offenders for ramming are non-prestige delinquents during The Trial. (I.M.O.)
Why drive like a total noob when you’re actually on the same team ?

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Because their egos can’t handle it not coming in first, and the game teaches ramming skills, not driving skills. I’ve seen people full on rage quit when victory in the trial was guaranteed, because they couldn’t beat me. Sure some of them might have been legitimate DCs, but far too often the timing is too convenient to be a DC. Usually happens right after a failed corner bomb attempt.

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Yeah, I have caused numerous people to rage quit because I out drive them. I don’t care so much about winning that I need to wreck someone to do it. Average number of collisions per race is 14 because people ram me or I make contact if they take a corner too slow.
And I fully agree, the game itself encourages wrecking and slamming to win. And of course, got the win at all cost types, but like you said, they rage quit if they can’t win.

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I think the issue is partly the whole ethos of the game and the lack of effort in coding decent AI.

Even in single player, on higher skill settings you start near the back in a 2-3 minute race in a near equivalent car.
The easiest way to overtake is often to brake late, cut a corner a little and colide with AI on the way around.

Then you have the AI that swerve about all over the place for no good reason and often ram you out of checkpoints strategically placed to make it difficult to overtake.
Like the checkpoints after the bridge in this weeks trial when typically you are trying to get through or around the 3 or so AI crashing into each other before the lead AI escape down the road.
And the the game rewards you will skill points for colliding with the scenary, trading paint, demolition etc.

It’s no wonder players think collisions are a valid strategy in the game including mutliplayer.

My guess about the AI issues is that the server is making a set of decisions about direction changes independantly from game running on your own hardware so the server has made a decision to pull right, then the local game has to make that happen and as quick as possible. In order to syncronise it will shove you out of the way, often forcefully which can send you spinning off. The ability of AI to change direction/line multiple times mid corner is supernatural.

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Personally scrap the AI drivers and set the designated team a time limit in which to complete The Trial AS A TEAM. No ramming, no forcing fellow teamers off-route,etc. Removing the artifical drivatars should encourage the actual players to work as team (in an ideal world).

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bad sportsmanship, to use your analogy, it would be like shooting your own sides players in a fps which is also seen as bad form and can lead to bans on those games.

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