Exploit or Game Design?

Forza Horizon Forza Horizon 5 FH5 Discussion
1

Nerfed: AFK XP & Skill Points, also Wheel Spins.
Why: Playground Games said they’re exploits.
Definition of Exploit: “(in a video game) the use of a bug or flaw in game design to a player’s advantage or to the disadvantage of other players.” (from internet search)
Definition of Game Design: “Video game design is the process of conceiving, planning and directing the creation of an electronic game . . .” (from WhatIs.com)

Edited to add: I have been grinding after getting the game 2 weeks after release. I have only 1 achievement left to get & most accolades unlocked. I have completed most everything hands on, on the controller.

Utilizing AFK with Brake Assist, Auto Steering, in a user designed race course, & enjoying wheelspins within the boundaries of the game as Playground Games designed it is not an exploit. It’s enjoying the game as PG intended. It’s not a “bug or flaw in game design”. Those features & rewards were deliberately added to the game.

When I bought my Ultimate Edition, then began playing, I realized I may not play another game for years. Why would I.

Brake & steering assist have been in other games for years. But Auto Steering is new & brilliant. Now anyone, regardless of age or physical limitations can enjoy driving if they have a blue driving line.

For AFK, what does it matter to anyone if I run my game 24/7, alternating between me driving & AFK? I felt no need for other games with FH5 AFK available to keep me occupied for years.
Now my AFK time requires restarting races after every 3 laps to get maximum XP, which isn’t much. FH5 will go from HERO to ZERO before long. It’s a bummer for me to realize that, as I’ve owned all Forza titles.

Playground Games should be proud of how transparent & very supportive they have been of Horizon 5 gamers. Why reduce rewards & opportunities in the game?

Edited to add: I have been grinding after getting the game 2 weeks after release. I have only 1 achievement left to get & most accolades unlocked. I have completed most everything hands on, on the controller.

Please restore AFK & Wheelspins to their former status. Thank you.

9 Likes
2

I suspect they are making decisions based solely on data. They would see key statistics such as high player uptake and low player rentention and wonder what they could do to increase player retention.

In theory it makes perfect sense to reduce how fast players can retain credits, specifically cars, as it requires players to play more and hence help to retain players. Right???

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3

It was a flaw in the game, so it was an exploit. Best to remove exploits.

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4

…

The Willys exists in FH4 since ever with Wheelspin and was used in same way. Willys was in FH5 since beginning with Wheelspin so i’m sure it doesnt fit the “not intended” thing.
With the reward drop in wheelspin (and yeah its not new) its useless after xx amount of time. Noone pays 40k/5Skillpoints if the Wheelspin gives <40k reward most of the time.
There was also the extra Accolade with “buy 400 cars from autoshow” :wink:

anyway u know the things as gamedesigner…

So we are down to players abusing it too hard (and some others called it exploit then). Best way to remove this “exploit”/abuse? Introduce a limit!
For ex. add 5 Willys per day limit and it stops the “abusing players” without interrupting the others.
Same for the Afk thingy replay expedition or whatever it was there is already some limit and it gives 0Cr for redoing. Add limit for events.
U can do 1x goliath per day and after doing once it gives < Cr so user has to switch track or stop. User has to stop anyway limited by amount of tracks. No way to afk-abuse point to point…

But yeah as GameDesigner…

Problem is/was ppl “cryed too hard” in first weeks. Others laughed too hard (meme)…
But then dev is forced to fix it (fast) and yeah u see what happens it breaks “gamedesign”

few more and ppl had realized its a selfsolving issue ;D

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5

Sorry mods ;D

U remember your posts about “Assists are cheats” with things like
Some interesting ideas and PGG Forza-Team is looking for ppl…

GameDesigner: Careers - Playground Games
Gamplay Engineer: Careers - Playground Games

6

Are you seriously saying that you wanting to keep game playing itself 24/7 should be considered a disability?

For some reason that reminds of certain group of people screaming about their breathing problem.

Don’t get me wrong. I have no issues with you needing steering and brake assists for enjoyable gaming experience, in fact it’s good that those exist for people who need them, BUT you have to be the one pressing button that makes car go forward.

7

I think Playground Games did some good here from reading your post. They make the game to be played and so they make the rules. I don’t want you to be getting an advantage from you not even putting in the time.

If PGG’s say its a bug or exploit, it is, they made it. You can make the choice of playing it more or never play again.

(though I agree with wheelspins credits should be put back to the way they were before).

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8

It’s pretty annoying that a lot of people who played from launch day got to take advantage of the AFK exploits and generous wheelspins to aid their progress through this grindy game, while I, as someone who started a month and a half late, will not have those advantages.

Just make the game right right from the beginning. This is FH5. Why is the winning formula not already figured out. Why the need to change things constantly.

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9

Well, you could argue it was a flaw as they didn’t consider that people may decide to play the game by not actually playing the game. All the AFK stuff was put in to help those with disabilities play the game, not so those without disabilities could exploit it. Then again, I don’t understand why anyone would want to spend $100 on a game and then have the game play the game for you…but maybe that’s just me

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For some that is a game in itself, outsmarting the devs so to speak. Gaming the system (and the game) is a time honored tradition, after all.

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11

Some players like to unlock all cars themselves, others see this as a grind and just want to play the game whether it be racing, tuning or painting cars.

This is common in all games such as MMOs where some players love the leveling process while others just want to skip to end game content.

Personally I can’t fault PGG for their actions to date around afk exploits, credits etc. But I am surprised it’s been the #1 priority since day 1 and has been more important for them to fix over the neverending list of major bugs and issues in this game. At the end of the day if I have unlocked all cars and have 999,999,999 what impact does it have on others? Nothing. What impact does it have on PGG? Ironically I would say a positive impact as I would be happily playing the game doing things I want to instead of grinding away unlocking cars which personally isn’t my thing.

Again it all boils down to poor decision making and wrong priorities. They KNOW they need to retain players but also their focus right now would be the first expansion as it would be under development right now. So they are looking at quick simply wins in their mind to try retain players, aswell as quick simply wins to tackle some of the bugs/issues. Unfortunately no one really cares for any of these changes they have made to date which makes the community feel like they aren’t listened to and also makes them fustrated. That then leads to players arguing with one another because they want to vent their frustrations but only have other players to vent to. This whole game and community is going down the drain basically due to poor leadership.

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12

I have been grinding after getting the game 2 weeks after release. I have only 1 achievement left to get & most accolades unlocked. I have completed most everything hands on, on the controller.

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13

So have they removed auto steer? which was implemented to help people who have disabilities play the game, just seems a bit unfair if they have.

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14

They will simply remove all cars from the game. That solves afk exploits, ramming, banned liveries and cheaters. We will still be able to customize our avatars though and choose between which gloves we will wear.

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15

The pieces that made AFK possible being added intentionally doesn’t make AFK being possible any less of a flaw in game design. It was a flaw, and it was being exploited.

16

Exactly. So how do you solve this problem? Allow users to choose between normal and disabled mode.

Each mode has its own player profile, including a separate garage, credits, game progression etc.

When using disabled mode then auto steering is enabled and cannot be turned off. Similarly you cannot use auto steering in normal mode.

Everything else is exactly the same.

Problem solved.

17

Autosteer and brake assist were added to aid those with disabilities to play, that’s what they were intended for. do you want people with disabilities not to be able to play?

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18

I was very careful with how I said my message because I believe the pieces are necessary, the AFK outcome is a flaw. Instead of just removing accessibility features, there should be a way to prevent people from AFKing by abusing those features.

19

But if that’s how someone chooses to play who are you or I to tell them they cant they pays their money and makes their choices, I believe in online play they cant afk if they do they get kicked out the session which is fair enough and the only bit that directly affects other players anyway.

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20

Bit hard to say that’s how someone chooses to play when they’re actually directly choosing not to play.