It’s the year 2016. Developers have the budgets, creative imagination and resources to reproduce 100% real car sounds in a game. Development houses with practically less than half of T10’s budgets have proven just that.
In your opinion, will T10 go back to their roots and innovate in terms of depth and quality rather than just content? Are you willing to accept just above average or pseudo car sounds as long as the game has a lot of tracks, and a LOT of cars to play with?
Is it really too much to ask of a developer to reproduce completely REAL car sounds, verbatim, in a game, with and without upgrades?
IMHO, all is possible. But is T10 willing to put in the love, sweat and tears? Don’t know for sure…
I think to expect 100% “real life” sounds for 500 cars is a little far fetched. The closest competitor as far as car count is gran turismo and they are in much worse shape than forza has ever been. When and how a developer records their sounds has a huge effect on those sounds. Recording a sound in a garage is going to be different then in a parking lot. Then theres recording cars on a dyno, which would give them a better recording as far as acceleration sounds, but then they have to isolate the sounds coming from the dyno. Even if they could drive every car in the game in real life on a track, theres only so much time they could dedicate to a particular car and theres no way to record every type of situation, theres many differences in sounds when your driving at 7/10ths then when you’re driving at 10/10ths. I think forza has good engine sounds, but i think they could be a little more guttural especially when performance parts are added. I think the tire screeching sounds need to be more refined and certainly turned down a bit because they are a constant in this game, i cant see how race tires could screech as well as sound the same as road tires for instance. I think more road noise should also be conveyed to the driver as well as suspension sounds like if you bottom out or something which are pretty much non existant. In my opinion the engine sounds are the least of my concern with forza, its all the other ones that need help. I also dont have any idea how much processing power and file size are needed to do these things because i dont make games, but it is certainly possible because other games have better sounds for some things, but as i said earlier they have no where near the car count that forza does and cant really even be compared to it.
Gran Turismo… mate? GT is not even in the competitive leagues, that’s how dated their sounds are.
Why do they have 500+ cars if they can’t get the sound right? NFS has always featured well below 100 cars in their games, and just LISTEN to the cars’ notes, with and without upgrades.
I agree with you though, when you say sound needs dramatic improvement across the board: tire and road noise, wind noise, progressive tire screeching sounds and more variation, transmission, chassis and suspension sounds. There is no sound at all of the car landing back on the track after catching some air. Also no sound of the suspension bottoming out. The worse kind of sound is the crashing sound… there is just one or two basic effect which sounds like you’re playing bumper cars, rather than metal and paint coming into contact.
Forza’s biggest weakness: the obsession with car count. Gamers keep asking for more cars, and the sounds get half-raped. With all due respect to your personal opinion, some of us just prefer depth, quality and realism over car count. Better to accurately the soul and personality of each car rather than have flat, generic notes for each. Some though, are tastefully done, but I absolutely hate this preferential and VIP treatment that only a select few get.
Well, yes… compared to other console games, the sounds are good. But do you honestly find them good compared to previous Forza standards and benchmarks?
I would love to see those audio options make a comeback but that will not solve anything - they still need to add significantly more detail into how cars sound while driving from different views and how they sound in a replay, both with/without upgrades. It’s too basic and generic, know what I mean? It’s about time they started reproducing distinct sounds for all cars, while driving and replays, with and without upgrades. It just sounds too generic as it is, which wasn’t the case with FM5.
I wish T10 would do road noise properly… we had that even back in the GT3 days. Wind noise is barely there and tires need more dynamism.
And why not be ultra nitty-gritty? Why not have higher standards? Why should be settle for less? FORZA 5 had significantly more nuanced physics, a beautiful graphics engine and car sounds that blew everything else out of the water. They cut back in every department to get more cars and features in, and you’re willing to accept content + quantity in exchange for quality?
They have the time, believe me… development for the next Forza game starts even before they have released upcoming games. I get the feeling they are losing heart in their franchise and its all becoming too generic: here’s a bunch of tracks and LOTS of cars… now give us your money for DLC so you can enjoy those tracks and cars.
I do not remember the sounds being taken this casually in FM4, which had what… well over 500 cars on launch? Go back to F4 and 5 to see how beautiful those cars sounded… soul and personality intact.
Yours has been the best response so far and makes for a very compelling and constructive argument.
I think majority of people are just willing to accept lower car sound standards in exchange for wayyy more cars. And unfortunately, the purists out there are limited in numbers so T10 will almost always lean towards the majority.
It is a shame though how FM is turning into a generic car collecting game rather than a game with sim-like physics and sounds which gave each car a distinct aura and personality. What is the point of performing upgrades on car A with a V8 engine Vs car B with a V8 engine also if they sound similar (whereas they don’t IRL) and then upgrading so many cars in your garage, only to find they sound the same except for higher engine revving sounds? Kind of silly, isn’t it? Robs away from the experience BIG TIME. Makes me want to just drive the cars in their stock form and go to the race-ready versions for upgraded/modified sounds.
I find the sounds in Forza are great, especially compared against it’s biggest console rivals.
The problem is when you do cockpit view they aren’t as good. The chase view are pretty meaty and sound brilliant through a decent surround sound setup.
I think they should bring back more audio options though, previous titles allowed to set the balances for engine, tyre, road and environment sounds levels.
Why did they take them away?
I think part of your post hits the nail on the head so I will turn a question around.
Would gamers be happy with a Forza game with 80 cars, with accurate sound and accurate / real life assists as opposed to 600 cars of the current quality?
EDIT: in order to get the sound right per upgrade what techniques need to be used? Do sound recordings stock, add part one and do sound recording, remove part one and add part 2 and do sound recording again?
Whilst some people will say we only tend to use a certain number of cars the real issue will become which cars would miss out if the car count had to be cut to free up the resources per car.
I suspect it won’t happen.
The purists would love it to happen but what % of the player base are purists?
What % of the player base love being able to drive all these cars?
Fred may drive a mini, George may drive a Camaro, John may drive a VW Bus, I may drive a Jag LMP. Whilst each of these players may only use 20 cars each its possible if you cut the car count they may miss out on what they love to do.
As much as it would be awesome to have perfect real world representation of every car I believe we will see incremental improvements on what we have now.
Horizon 2 and FM6 have had probably the best quality and quantity mix of sounds to date. Yes, there are a handful of aweful examples (most BMWs, Alfas and some more of the larger than life vehicles) but plenty of head spinners and turners too. Technology can get better as can how the sound recording sessions are commited, main areas of improvements for FH3 this year must be exhaust burble/pops/general sound effects and more detailed interior volumes.
Thank forks FH and Playground Games have better audio sliders and choice of slider options that FM5/6 arbitary 0-110 master volume slider rubbish…
I agree, Horizon 2 and FM6 as well have their share of exceptionally brilliant car sounds, but I’m hoping to see that audio wizardry across the board. Also looking forward to major exhaust and engine sound improvements in H3 - the cars need to sound loud, raw and angry, particularly the modified ones.
Sliders - probably a good reason why they are only in Horizon. Maybe its a coding issue or something. T10 not willing to put in the time and resources perhaps.
Oh, heavens no man! Don’t be giving the developers any funny ideas!
There are already a number of hits and misses, and that’s the area I’d like to see addressed: uniformity. ALL cars getting the royal treatment, and for crying out loud… bring back the upgrade sounds from FM2!