Do wish list cars/tracks ever get in?

How do we know wish list cars and tracks get in the game be it for release or dlc and if so how are they chosen?

Bathurst, spa, yas marina were (among) the most requested ones

This.

Some folks are unaware that Spa and Bathurst have been the two most-requested tracks on all forums for Forza Motorsport and/or Gran Turismo. As a result of this, GT5 got Spa as DLC and FM5 had both on release. Also, contrary to some Americans’ belief, ovals are nowhere near as heavily-requested as road courses.

Some related reading:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/28/starting-from-scratch-building-forza-5s-new-car-roster

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/11/07/turn-10-boss-explains-nurburgring-absence-from-forza-5


http://www.oxm.co.uk/65965/were-not-holding-cars-back-for-forza-5-dlc-says-turn-10-people-misunderstand-the-way-these-things-work/


http://www.shacknews.com/article/82173/interview-forza-motorsport-5-creative-director-defends-in-game-economy

I can’t understand how Yas Marina can be more popular than Estoril, Brands Hatch and Monaco to take a few examples.

I must admit to being a little surprised that Brands Hatch isn’t in the game. But neither is Monaco etc. I guess it comes down to the licensing cost and time. I would imagine theres also an element of balance in providing a different variety of tracks. And as noted ovals are only popular in the USA. The UK, the home of the majority of world motorsport and the country that buys more sports cars per head than anywhere else only has one oval track - Rockingham - which has a better in-field track than indianapolis imho.

Still I’m happy with any tracks really, i’ll race on all of them.

long time ago 3 of my 6 were the new tracks added. It was astonishing.

To be honest, the Car and Track wishlist threads here are kind of pointless.
According to Turn 10, building cars takes 6 months to make, tracks even 9 months.
Since the last DLC will be out in 3 months, they would’ve needed to start working on the requested car 3 months ago.
This basically means the cars you request today in the wishlist threads won’t make it anyways since there is not enough time to create them until the last DLC comes out.
The only hope you have to see you wishlist car in the game is when it was on Turn 10’s schedule all along.

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With all respect to your point, imo they are not completely pointless

  1. it reduces the number of redundant threads that people would create on a daily basis, instead of hundreds of threads we have one (with ocassional exceptions that get either locked, redirected to the stickied wishlists or merged)
  2. even if it doesnt make it into this iteration it can still make it into the following ones (e.g. bathurst, spa, yas marina)
  1. Fair point, it probably does reduce the number of redundant threads, however if that wishlist thread doesn’t serve a purpose (my claim) it should be worded differently rather than giving people hopes about something that most likely isn’t going to happen.
  2. Sure, but this is the Forza 5 Forum and the wishlists are for “Cars and Tracks that you want to see in Forza Motorsport 5”.

Fair points, and I understand your logic behind it, but allow me to slightly disagree in some aspects. You said they are kind of pointless, I said they are not completely pointless:
1a) If it reduces the number of redundant threads it serves this purpose, doesnt it? From your POV it doesnt have to constitute a means-end purpose, but it is rather a autotelic purpose, it serves the purpose of solely being there, so there wouldnt be dozens of threads (having rather a secondary purpose, so not completely pointless). Its existence has an effect on the forum aggregation, forum defragmentation, forum structuration, forum transparency, less work for mods etc.
1b) If it would be worded otherwise, there would still be dozens of threads (maybe not expressis verbis worded as wishlists, but actually being wishlists in their purpose).

2a) As to your original 3plus3months argument, the wish list was created long before FM5s launch, besides FM4 had DLC packs long after its season pass period was over.
2b) There are still many people that are glad that e.g. the three tracks I mentioned were actually added, and if they add some wished tracks or cars in FM6, FM7 many people would still be glad. Because their wishes have been fulfilled, the wishlist fulfilling its purpose.

  1. Now, people should of course realize that there are many factors when it comes down to wishlists, including the time constrains you mention. Others are e.g. licensing, availability of the cars they have to simulate (via their network of contacts), financial reasons, priorities based on different calculations and expectations of what they want to fulfill and what they can fulfill etc. - just to name some (I am not an insider so I am just trying to imagine the wide of spectrum of the determining factors involved). People should recognize, that objectively T10 cant fulfill all or even most of the wishes. They can maybe fulfill only a handful of wishes. So it might look that the wishlists are pointless, because their wishes have not been fulfilled, but they arent. If the devs see that the community is frequently requesting certain particular cars, tracks or features they will try to deliver them as far it is possible (based on the conditions of possibility reflected above - including many others of course). To be able to reflect upon the possibilities of fulfilling the wishes they have to be able to see which tracks, cars, features are frequently requested. They can do this more easily with one stickied thread where all the wishes are aggregated. Aggregation of wishes on one place, is still more effective then their fragmentation all over the forums in dozens of threads, which based on your argumentation are just as pointless as the stickied wishlist: so to return to point 1a, the “pointless thread” serves the purpose of reducing the number of other purposeless threads. :wink:

Okay you got me some perspective on this.

1a) Can’t really argue with that.
1b) Probably true, the problem I have with this is that it sounds like cars requested today could find their way into a DLC even though it only will if it was on schedule already.
The thread should’ve been closed the day they stopped taking cars into consideration because their schedule was fixed.
They could’ve closed the thread and left it stickied so people can see it and add the information that requests can’t be considered anymore.

2a) I admit that I didn’t know how long these threads existed.
I only saw this one being created two weeks ago which is probably because of the new forum.
It’s still problematic though since before launch, the car list wasn’t known in it’s entirety.
So valid requests (of cars that weren’t already in the game) could only be taken into consideration until early December as they would’ve needed to start working on them by then.

You have a point with your Forza 4 example though, we might see additional DLC after the Car Pass period, however it might make some people mad when they find their favourite cars in one of them when they bought the Car Pass.
I also dislike the practice of releasing more DLC than the Car Pass / Season Pass covers since the name somewhat implies that all content (cars) is covered by it, but I guess this is debatable.
Anyways, you got a point here.

2b) Sure, I’ll be glad for any additional content that comes with the next game.
However, I need to stress that the threads are for cars and track wishes for this game, not the next.
They might consider the Tracks requested in the thread, but someone wishing for it to be in this game won’t be satisfied to have to buy the next game in order to get it.

  1. I agree with you on most of this.
    We have to acknowledge that there is a lot involved when it comes to create content for the game and I don’t doubt that.
    It’s the two sides of a medal, though.
    When Turn10 wants to know what cars their customers want to see in the future, Wishlists threads are a good way to get this information.
    However when it’s labeled as Wishlists for the current game, even though the time frame for the as-of-now known DLCs doesn’t allow them, it’s a bit misleading.
    I understand of course that they can’t openly ask for car and track requests for the next game already, but they shouldn’t keep hopes up for cars requested by now unless there is more coming than the Car Pass like you mentioned.

So yeah, the threads do serve a purpose as to minimize redundant threads, but from what we know until now (e.g. the number of planned DLC) they don’t serve the purpose they are supposed to.

A) The Point of the wishlist threads is, as should be obvious, to be one location for wishes. Look at the Forza 4 legacy page: http://legacy.forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/152/ShowForum.aspx

Total threads - just over 23,000 … Car wishlist thread - over 14,000 replies!

Would you really want to wade through a forum where practically 2 out of every 3 threads is somebody’s personal car wish list??? I know I wouldn’t.

B) Yes, the cars take roughly 6 months to create — including the selection process, the logistics, the modelling, dyno and sound recording (when possible), etc, etc, etc. FM4 had 12 months of car packs. Reasonable to assume FM5 will as well - possibly more. So, for a car posted to that thread today that is NOT already in the pipeline to be considered for FM5 DLC, it’s not out-of-the-question that it could make it into month 10 / 11 / 12 (or further out) DLC.

C) It seems likely to me that Turn 10 reviews the Car / Track wishlists and, while not necessarily saying “Oh, this specific car was requested, let’s get it” they might say “Oh, this style / category / genre / era of car has been frequently requested… we know we have access to this particular car - which is not in the wishlist but is similar to the cars being requested - so let’s do that one.”

For example, I don’t know that there were a LOT of requests specifically for the “1976 McLaren #11 Team McLaren M23” — but there certainly were plenty of requests for open-wheel / F1 cars.

D) Again, the purpose of the wishlist threads is to give people a place to put their car / track / feature wishes and requests, so that the rest of the forum is usable.

E) If you look at the first post in the Car and Track wishlist threads:

“Here is the place to discuss what cars you think will be in the game and what cars you want in the game.”
“This is the place to discuss what tracks you want to see in Forza Motorsport 5.”

It really seems to fit the purpose. Discuss what you want in the game, discuss what you think will be in the game. It doesn’t say “Post here so we have a list to choose from.”

  • Don Ente

First of all, thanks for your reply.
Through my discussion with GebrPouz and now your points, I see that I’m not necessarily correct with some points.

A) Yes the wishlist thread serves the purpose of putting car wishes in one place, there’s no problem with that.
And no I wouldn’t want you or anybody to work through this numbers of threads.
I was pointing out the problem that car and track request in these threads, even though they are for wishes for FM5 (not the next one), be it the actual car or type of car, wouldn’t probably make it into the game anyways because of the as-of-yet known DLC schedule.

B) Well this pretty much invalidates my concern if true.
I was just making up my mind from the informations we know today (6 car packs released in 6 months after release).
However, I still see problems when there are let’s say 6 more car packs than we already will be released:
a) A Car Pass or Season Pass should include all major DLC for the game (that’s what I understand from “season”, the Forza 5 life cycle). So if the description says it includes 6 car packs, I would expect there to be only 6 priced car packs.
Im not saying than having more car packs than 6 is bad, I would just want to have them included in the Car Pass.
b) The pricing.
I’ve said it in other threads but I will briefly repeat myself:
$10 for a car pack is too high in my opinion.
The car pass costs $50 and almost as much as the actual game but only providing a third of cars and no tracks.
Let’s say there would be 6 more car packs after the Car Pass, that would be $100-$120 (depending on whether or not there is a second Car Pass (which would be infuriating)) worth of DLC, twice the price of the actual game and still about half the cars the game provided and no tracks.

C) That makes sense.
However how they make their decision isn’t my concern here.

D) Agreed and it serves it’s purpose well.
Again I’m just curious, based on the information we have, if the requested cars have a chance to make it in the game when they’re not already in the pipeline.

E) The first posts are what make me curious about them.
They are asking for cars that the community wants to see in this game rather the next iteration.
And as described above I have my doubts based on information we have right now.

They are pointless. It’s clear we are basically only getting cars from previous Forza’s so unless you want a car from FM4 you are out of luck. If it takes 9 months to make a car, how long do you think it takes to make a track? So we aren’t getting any tracks that they haven’t already started working on. Not to mention they aren’t listening to us anyway.

Yeah Spa and Bathurst were the most requested. We got those at the cost of everything else. Without the Ring they had to put those in or no one would have bought the game.

I kept sending the Smart ForTwo as a request for forza 4 and it happend that was luck for me but that’s just another case too.

I remember the 240sx, camaro zl1, newest gt500, FRS/BRZ, new viper to name a few being requested a lot and we got them. I don’t think the wish lists are completely ignored and I would think they are considered in a que of sorts of future car packs. Some of the cars like the new camaro we got quickly and others like the 240 took several games to make it.

Odds are future car packs will continue to have cars from previous games, completely unexpected cars, and highly requested cars (which may include previous cars from older games).

I think the car/track wishlist threads serve as a bucket to collect ideas. There would have to be an overwhelming request for a car/track to make the actual cut. I’m sure Monza was requested a lot and Nordschleiffe is a MUST but not in FM5 (yet), so what could be the reason? I suspect there are many other deciding factors other than the fan requests.

10k posts for cars/tracks are still only a tiny fraction of the playing population compared to 500k LB times in FM5 alone.

T10 already has a library of almost 600 cars (from FM2/3/4) to pull from. Even if a car is recreated from scratch, it would be MUCH MUCH easier to do so with an old reference, especially for 20+ year old cars. If I was working at T10, I would place greater resources in coverting the old models to FM5 since it requires relative shorter amount of time.

As for certain cars requested making into the actual game, there’s no proof that the car made into the game because of the request; the car could have been in T10’s development plan all along. If there were 10,000+ requests, whatever car T10 chooses to work on there’s high possibility that someone has requested it.

So my conclusion = Yes, wishlist cars/tracks get in the game BUT not strictly because they were requested. Car/track has to meet T10’s selection criteria.