Its clear to me there are cars that perform better than others when they should not. We can start by giving examples of cars that need a boost and then if you want to, suggest ones that need to be nerfed. Include what class you have in mind.
I’ll start with the McLaren F1. At first this might seem like a competitive car and you can do well at times but play enough in S1 class online and you will struggle to keep up. Its not a go to car if you are planning to win. So you get a nice car to look at for your 2 million credits. You hardly see these and it’s probably no coincidence. It Requires at least one tire upgrade or it’s completely worthless, whereas a 17 NSX doesn’t need tires. A F1 should handle equal if not way better than a NSX with both having stock tires, but it’s not even close. So to compensate you have to take a major hit to speed.
I see most people running max HP with lesser tire upgrades online it’s pretty obvious. there are certain cars you can get away with it and they still handle well… and others are complete garbage.
The 93 Nissan 240SX SE. I’ve never seen a sports car with a max grip build drift so much in my life. It’s like the default grip was set so extremely low that even with race tires it’s comparable to stock tires on most other cars.
And If I had to pick what to nerf it would probably be a long list of retro cars and pickup trucks that drive like ferraris. Can’t count the time I’ve seen the likes of a 1946 Wagon take S1 leaderboard. No amount of upgrades should make that a viable option in S1. And quite a few rally cars can outdrive everyone on tarmac too, why would you drive anything else?
It’s almost like several developers were in charge of car upgrades and they each had their own idea of what they should be like… Instead of one guy that did them all and knows what he’s doing when it comes to balancing them all out.
Imprezzas are pretty good in real life too. If top speed is less then say 150. A STI is pretty good choice in real life.
You said it yourself in your post it’s about what handles on stock tires and what doesn’t. So it is was it is. I think we are about too far along to change PI structure. But who knows.
STI almost won continental sports car challenge at Road America lost gear box on final turn of final lap. STI is the record holder at Isle of Man. (Thinking it is. Might not be anymore)
It all depends on the track as always.
I think it shouldn’t be about which cars but the overall PI structure that plays havoc on everything but I’m not expecting any changes. There are a number of people over level 1000, how many thousands of build/tunes shared. I seriously doubt there will be a PI change and it’s not like I can’t beat 99% of persons in scoobie in other cars like Camaro, Vette and NSX. Will I beat hornet, nope. But I’m willing to bet hornet could take the cars I just mentioned and others and get close to his best times in scoobie.
I had to edit my post to say a “long list of rally cars” because it’s not just Subaru. I was running neck and neck with a Puegot on tarmac in my best track Ferrari and I couldn’t pull off the win. Then seeing as how well he did with it I tried it myself and it was unreal how good it was
You’re seeing all the signs, but you’re not getting the message. This game needs high power and AWD over finesse and handling. That’s just the way it is. Upgrading tires on the McClaren is WAY too PI-expensive. You need to learn to handle it on stock rubber, and just add to power, perhaps go the AWD route. The rally cars, similarly, greatly benefit from being AWD in the first place (as in they’re designed for it) and they have lots of headroom for more power.
What makes you assume in not using AWD? I use AWD in all my builds and I am an excellent tuner. I probably have some of the fastest, best handling tunes in the game and I know which cars are just plain better than others when they shouldn’t be. And I’m a good driver too. I try to build a AWD fat tire rocket first but If I can’t avoid hitting a wall then I lose my XP chain and I’m better off with more grip and less HP… That’s where I fall behind and that’s what I’m talking about.
I think it’s wrong to assume that T10 has every car tuned fairly against each other, when that is not the case and understandable as there are a lot of variables involved. I just want to make suggestions and maybe they can make some adjustments here and there. Improving the default grip of certain cars is not going to ruin anything. I’m Pretty Sure not positive they’ve made changes recently to AWD costs as well as fatter front tires.
Sorry if I misunderstood. You first post led me to believe you hadn’t grasped the PI basics in this game.
I got curious about the F1 because of your post, and I tuned it the same way that always works for me in this game: fattened stock rubber, handling upgrades minus bracing and weight, AWD, race tranny and diff, and the rest all power; then slider adjustments for better turn-in and top speed. At the top of S1, it runs Goliath even faster than the 69 Mustang HE in similar trim, and the drivatars in its category are a good 1:30 behind on a 1-lap race. I’d take it over the Mustang, except it has no special HE boost. It handles well, if not glued to the pavement like other supercars. I realize Goliath isn’t the only track. However, it’s more representative of the tracks in the game than some super-tight circuit designed to make power take a back seat to handling.
What you’re asking is for them to change the balance of the game completely. I don’t think they’re going to do that at this late stage. I hope not, anyway. It would bring its own new set of issues, not to mention the damage it would do to all the tunes and upgrades already in use.
Nerf is a 4-letter word. It makes me cringe when I see it used as a suggestion.
This conflicts with the OPs gripe with rally cars, but I’m a little disappointed with the Opel Manta 400.
It’s not the performance per se, but rather the harsh default rating of A 795. It does have spectacular handling, but it’s not even top notch; and mostly the default speed gets you absolutely nowhere against other halfways decent cars anywhere within the A-class.
It’s no secret that the surface doesn’t really affect handling as much as it should, so I don’t really see the reasoning behind it. You can build something really fun and competitive within the S1 class, but I wish the default rating would be ~720 at the utmost, so you don’t need to exceed the class as soon as you turn a single screw.
Personally, I think the Hummer H1’s PI is too high stock. When I ran this stock in a championship with other Offroaders, I struggled hard. This was when I accepted nothing less than 1st though, so YMMV. The Defender I felt was too high as well; Broncos and CJs passing me like I’m driving a Golf Cart, yet when I choose something else (like the 2017 Raptor), the Defender is the one blowing right by me. Go figure.
Could be a reason for the Hummer in my opinion, being AWD. I never tried a power build (or any build) for it, so maybe that’s the key to success with it.
I agree about the rally cars in S1 class. I wouldn’t have a problem if they were just the best A class cars, but the performance level in S1 is amazing and there is no way that an STI outhandles an Ferrari Enzo by throwing sport tires on it, reducing weight and putting on a wing and splitter that add about 400 pounds of downforce. It’s still a narrow car with a comparatively high center of gravity, and it does not have aero like a supercar. A Ferrari Enzo develops more than 1000 pounds of downforce at speed. I can’t remember the exact figure but it’s way more than 1000 pounds. At slower speeds, an STI handles great, has great turn it, etc. But at S1 class speeds, it’s handling is overrated. There are a lot of cars in the game whose max handling when upgraded should be decreased.
But about the F1 …
I remembered that being a really good S1 car and I’d planned to go back and retune my F1 because it was one of my first cars, it’s tune had some problems, and I’ve figured the game out a lot more since then. So I went back yesterday.
Yes, the F1 is a car that can take a tire upgrade, but not for all builds. Some of the festival circuits are lower speed than others and some semi-handling builds might be preferred for some. But the furthest I’d go toward handling is the following build. It has the first tire upgrade. Going much more to the handling side of things probably wouldn’t be beneficial.
But that’s not my favorite F1 build. My favorite is also probably now my favorite tune of any car. It’s on stock tires.
Because of the tune, that 7.4 handling rating is misleading. I took it to Goliath and I was able to take turns at higher speeds than I can in a Countach HE. The result was #8 on the Goliath S1 leaderboard and it was the fastest car I’ve driven there (saving the Bugatti and Lotus Espirit for later), and it is highest non-Bugatti or Lotus on that leaderboard … in spite of the fact that this F1 tune can’t hit 240 mph.
So then I took to some Street Race Rivals. These leaderboards are pretty thin right now but the cars at the top are serious cars. It got #5 on I think Yard to Coober Pedy Run on the second clean run. But then I took it to Dam and Dry Bridge Loop and it easily took the #1 spot by about .5 seconds, but could do it faster than that. It won’t hold #1 when the best Bugatti’s get there, but the car is no joke and I’ve smashed in less when online.
So #8 on Goliath and #1 on Dam and Dry Bridge Loop? The F1 is a good car. I wouldn’t give up on it. I love this car, it may be my favorite right now. And I’ll probably share that tune later today or tomorrow if anyone’s interested in it.
I do understand that Goliath, thanks to those long straights favors loads of power, but just to clarify. Are you using this setup on sprint tracks only? I mean I am just doing circuits in the free roam (no Goliath as I find it boring) and my F1 is one of my faster cars and it’s handling stat is around 7.8 (excluding that one short circuit in the Yarra valley or however that region is called where the Bugatti rules).
I also have to admit that I am avoiding Rivals events on my favorite circuits, afraid of seeing how fast those unbalanced cars are. I did try out the F1 with its stock tyres on my favourite circuits, but according to my own times I am quicker with the semis. The F1 is one of those few cars, that despite having a good handling, still pulls like hell past 240 km/h. A point where most of my favourite cars like the AMG GT/SLS lose out, despite having a comparable handling.
If it turns out, that I need to tune my cars even for my favourite circuits in that way… S1 would end up being dead for me. I mean, I am fine if my cars are 0,5 seconds off pace (still a big gap on 50 second lap)… ah man. Why did PG need to ruin the PI System…this game was supposed to be it for me…
Not that I can get a refund anymore…
Edit: Btw for topic. I think the issue for most Supercars/Hypercars are from my experience on circuits, that they end up with normal tyres or semislicks in S1 and all the other lower slower class cars that are tuned up into S1 got race tyres. At first glance they look like if they’ve got the same handling, but the reality is that Supercars/Hypercars in S1 usually have more aero grip and normal sportscars more mechanical grip, which why compared to those are cars they’ve got a big disadvantage on those circuits with corners that you take at around 100-200 km/h.
Usually these types of cars were in S2 class in FH2 (not that they were competitive thanks to the Veneno), but thats where they belong to. Also in Fh2, every competitive car in S1 had maximum possible tyres on them, which we don’t do in Fh3…thanks to the crappy PI system.
I didn’t do any other circuits with this build but I’d guess there’s more than a couple where more handling would be preferred, and I wouldn’t be surprised if I was wrong about 7.6 handling being the most anybody would want … for at least a few of the circuits.
I’ve been cutting corners lately to save time when going thru cars, but I had been taking each one thru a 10 circuit championship. And I’ve been avoiding festivals rivals until later since the top 30 are mostly rally cars. But even with all the cars I’ve driven, my fastest time at Archway Meadows Circuit was in an AMG GT from the first week. It’s around #30, had a handling rating of 8.0, and most of the faster times were rally cars. My fastest time at Skyline View was also from the first week in a 650S with an 8.0 handling rating … also around #30 behind mostly rally cars. I think there are a few circuits that still favor handling, and I haven’t built a lot of cars for those events but I’m looking forward to it.
One of my favorites is Rainforest Circuit, but I think there’s an F1 above both of us that used a setup like my goliath/street race setup. It has a PI of 899 and I needed aftermarket wheels to get mine to 900. I thought Rainforest was kind of in the middle of speed vs handling. I’m about #45 in a Enzo, youre a few tenths ahead in that 570S, there’s a couple F1s closeby and the rest are mostly Suburus. If that first F1 was running with stock tires, even Rainforest probably favors speed a little.
I’m not a fan of the PI system either. I tend to stay in S1 because it seems more unbalanced in lower classes, but even most of the races are designed to favor power builds … and that makes me like the PI system even less. The power builds of supercars in S1 don’t feel that bad to me, though. They still grip and brake reasonably. My biggest PI system gripes come from having similar horsepower in S1, A, and B, but with way less grip. The feel is awful … and I haven’t even tried C and D.
And then there’s trucks …
The game way overrates truck handling to allow them to compete with cars. I don’t like that and no amount of upgrading should get a truck to a 7.5 handling rating.
The Tesla also has completely overrated handling. I guess there are more cars I’d like made worse than better. There’s a ton of grip in the game already and I think the cars that seem weak seem that way because others are so strong.
I’m very sure that the Rainforest circuit prefers speed over handling. That 570S is one of my early builds (first week of the game), that had wider front tyres and in its current state it should actually get on that circuit into the lower 58 seconds (I’m sure the top guys have started moving into the 57s since then). But then again, my 570S is the very definition of what I don’t like, V10 swapped and stock tyres (weirdly it handles actually really good) and that gives it a feel like the Impreza has in S1…a cheat car, I can’t drive it without feeling good about it. I am talking about a handling as good, if not better than my AMG GT, yet it’s well around 20-30 km/h faster at the end of most circuits straights.
Currently I’m into the Three Bridge circuit and the other one in the southern part of Surfers paradise. I feel really good about my times there I’m doing in MP, but it looks like I need to confront reality and compare them with the rivals events…
Yea ive given up on s1 leaderboards because a wrx should not dominate every track.i was also dissapointed with the alpha 33 stradale I just bought. it dosnt fit well in any class to be competitive.i dont really want to buy any more of the rare 10mill cars if I cant be competitive in them.in my mind you spend that many credits on a car it should be competitive in rivals and online.instead its just a trophy car sitting in my garage not being driven
This isn’t COD, nothing needs buffing or nerfing. Some cars are better because they are better. In this simulation. They each have a PI number and will “overall” perform to similar PI numbered cars. However as some courses favour grip, and some favour outright speed it’s about choosing the right vehicle for the course. You can’t take one car and expect it to win all the time over such a variety of terrains and layouts. That is ridiculous. It’s also why the weapons in COD and Battlefield rarely perform like real world counterparts, because they’ve all been buffed or nerfed for the Shooter generation.
Some cars do better in some environments, some cars do better in others. That’s it. You need to adjust your playstyle to the game, not the other way around. Once you’ve learned how you’ll enjoy the game more and other games too.
Speaking of which, I’d like to see the McLaren P1 buffed, and the LaFerrari, FXX K and the Porsche 918 (when it ever comes out at DLC) nerfed and configured so that they perform worse than the McLaren. I saw a thread on here some months ago with some good evidence of the McLaren P1 being the greatest car in the world, and Turn 10 needs to respond to my ever so demanding princess requests NOW. Or else this will ruin my Forza experience, and I will sue them for ruining my gaming experience.