Camber

Not all cars can get tires warmed up that much. I remember jacking my pressures up several pounds and the temp stayed at 170. I’m not sure if there is a good temperature benchmark in this game. However 32-33 psi when warmed usually feels pretty good.

My personnal preference for now is around 32.5

I’m starting to second guess the whole race suspension. Every time I drive a build with the stock setup it drives better and the extra power is really good medicine for what ales you with all the new rear grip FM6 seems to have. I haven’t decided if it’s the extra power, stock lower camber, or extra bump.

Crash

1 Like

Worked in FM3 a lot.

+1

I’ve been using lower camber figures like I would in FM5 or FH2 s far.

After reading this, I will definitely try checking out the telemetry and seeing how the car does with a higher camber (never above 0 though).

Might make a huge difference to some of my cars.

People aiming for an even heat distribution throughout the tyre width = Facepalm moment.

As mentioned, there is no set camber on FM6. It’s very diverse and have found that it varies massively per car.

E.g. My R Class Agera runs something like -2.1 Front and -1.5 Rear / A Class Supra -1.8 Front and -0.9 Rear / S Class R34 -1.0 Front and -0.8 Rear

As you can see, all vary differently. So in conclusion how do I find them? Much, much, much, much (x1 billion) better then all the other Forza’s
By this I mean it is much more realistic.

Oh, and for those wondering how to actually tune Camber, do a little research - take pride in doing some work. You learn more from practical observation and reading then taking the word from someone whom you’ve probably just met. Not being harsh but this is how the best tuners learnt to do this Art, now follow in their footsteps =]

RR

3 Likes

I am also finding that I need less (negative) camber than FM5, yet, the variation between cars is “large” compared to FM5 where most all of them were HIGH camber >3.3 F and >2.8 R except for several AWD cars.

PRKid
.

This is a good thread because this is a setting that is often very different from FM5. So far, I have only tuned a few cars and most of those have been Class D to A production cars. With stock, street, and sport tires, I’m initially tuning to get even tire temps across outside tires while turning then adjusting by feel/sound from there. Overall, they are lower than FM5.

The tires seem to feel better at slightly lower pressures also. I have been looking for 31 to 32 psi after warm-up as opposed to ~33 in FM5. This part is more of a work-in-progress because I haven’t strayed far from this range so far.

Optimal heat also varies more by tire type. In FM5, it seemed every tire heated to “impending liquefaction,” and the moment you lost any control, it was like the car was on ice. Race tires still get hot, but there’s a wider variation between each lower type.

There’s probably other factors involved, but with lower temps in FM6, the tires are more forgiving of errors than FM5. I’m not that good at tuning, so I don’t know if I tune any better, but it is more approachable in FM6. Someone said it in another post or a review, but to paraphrase, the adjustments do what they should do, and it makes tuning more fun.

2 Likes

Once you’ve tuned your Camber you should then tune your tyre pressures.

Both are dynamic and thus can change if one setting has change, but I personally start with Cambers.

And yet again, not saying names, someone trying to get even temps across the tyre width FACEPALM - Camber tuning 101: Even temps is for drag, NOT circuit!

For those who don’t know how to tune tyre pressures…

Once you have set your Camber, you’re pressures are determined by the middle section of the tyre width

Examples:
Inner: 196, middle: 200, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 185, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

Get it?

An increase in tire pressure will raise the centre temperature (vice versa), you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps

Now if no one can follow this, I don’t know what to say…

RR

5 Likes

This is an accurate description of what happens in the real world, but Forza is not the real world. No matter what pressure you run, the middle temp will always be equal to or between the inner and outer.

Correct me if i m wrong, but i didn t use the telemetry in fm5 due to its flaws. Especially for tyres temp. I tuned by feeling and laptime. Any of you leaning the same way?

1 Like

great post! excellent explanation!!

^^^Yeah, I don’t put much faith in the telemetry. Never have used it much. Sure wish the game came with a simple lap analysis, that would be useful.

I havn’t found any particular sweet spot, but it is definitely less then FM5 used to have, Been mostly between -2.5 (highest in front) to -1.0 (lowest in rear)
Also I have ran rather stiff ARB in some cars.

I come to my final camber solutions with combination of things, Tire width: wide = low camber / Narrow = high camber. and ARB setting: Stiff = low camber, Soft = High camber.

From those we can say that car with soft ARBs and narrow tires will have high camber, and cars with wide tires and stiff ARB’s have low camber, and other combinations are somewhere in the middle.

2 Likes

In FM6, the amount of camber is in line with what I typically use. I like to give little less camber on the powered wheels so they get better traction. IMO the amount of camber is clearly a tradeoff. The car’s traction is best when left/right sides are equally loaded. Higher camber favours outside tire traction but the inside tire would lose a lot of traction from having high camber + body roll. Cars with downforce will notice less of this effect, of course.

In general . . .

FWD: Max -1.3/-1.3, worked on A639 FWD '03 Toyota Celica last night at Brands Hatch Indy with respectable LB ranking. Think I had -1.3/-0.7 (?!?).
RWD: Max -1.5/-1.0, typically have -0.7~-0.5 on the rear for good acceleration
AWD: Max -1.3/-1.0, both front & rear wheels are powered so there are a lot of flexibility in tuning to balance the car. AWD = FWD+RWD so FWD front camber of -1.3 and RWD rear camber of -1.0 sound logical !?!

Tire temperatures should only be used as a general guideline; overall temperature is important but not critical as long as the tires are not overheating or too cold. Tuning by general feel, while very subjective, seems to be the best way for me.

2 Likes

Clearly people are trying to set boundaries, ugh! Hate people who set boundaries.

Camber and Tyre Pressure is dynamic, thus the temperature is dynamic…

FM5 was just awful with the telemetry, literally it was just a pointless feature apart from when it came to tuning gears.

FM6 has improved massively! The telemetry works much better then it use to in FM5 and thus you can now tune cars using it.

@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven’t done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

@ GRD 4 3L: Those boundaries are totally unpredictable. On my RWD Agera, I’m running -2.X on the Front and you state in general -1.5 “MAX” which is over a third more then what you say, this is why you NEVER set boundaries!

Boundaries are great for guidance, but to say this is “MAX” - that makes those who are new to tuning think “Oh, I need more camber but people say that is the maximum” then they sometimes wont even try it.

There is NO boundaries everyone, tuning has it’s own characteristics set by YOU! Your tune represents your personal preference, your style, your need to scrape that little bit more time off. Boundaries are meant to be a guidance, don’t be afraid to go your own way and exceed those set by others.

It’s as if I’m trying to start a revolution lol! But anyway, yeah guys and gals - tune your cars to how you feel, don’t think that you have to do something this way or that way.

In FM3, ARB’s of 1.00 and 40.00 was used all over, I still use it today. There will be people here that say don’t use that, don’t try it - it’s wrong. Well if it was so wrong, wouldn’t I not get top times?

Tune, Test, Observe repeat… Keep testing and soon you will will find your own style and then you’ll find a correlation to what you like to set, then that will be your base setup in which you tweak to improve.

Camber as stated is dynamic and so it also changes with a drivers style, someone may run -1.4 on the front, but because your style means that you throw your car into the corner, you may run -1.3 or less. So what I’m trying to say is, what you set your camber to should be YOUR style and ONLY your style!

RR

1 Like

@ gtFOOTw: You obviously haven’t done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry. Changing the pressures does affect the ratio between the Centre Temp to the Inner and Outer sections of the tyre, test your statement then comment, random none helpful statements does not help the community!

Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven’t done any tuning or anything to help the community. Just stop.
You’re the one making the claim that the center temp can be 5 degrees cooler or hotter than both side temps due to air pressure. I’m saying I’ve NEVER seen it.
The burden of proof lies on you, I logically can’t PROVE a negative (facepalm).

1 Like

I agree with gtFOOTw on mid tire temperature. The middle temperatures that I have observed in FM5 (and FM4) have always been in the middle. Even tried ultra low/high temperatures on IndyCars and the middle temperature always come out the same = between inside & outside temperatures. I would LOVE to see over/under-inflated tire pressures showing different mid temperature so there’s no way of knowing whether the tire is over/under-inflated by observing the tire temp; it can only be done subjectively by feel.

And @RoadRunner, I did say that the number are whay I ‘typically’ use, not a live/die rule. If -1.5 does not work, then I have no problem venturing into the higher range.

Fully agree with tune, test, observe, and repeat + tuning is different for everyone.

I quote what you quoted on me: “You obviously haven’t done any tuning on this game using the Telemetry”
I like how you then twisted my words to then say: “Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven’t done any tuning”

But if you read what I said, it says “using the telemetry” so please stop twisting my words, especially when it’s clearly shown on the forums. I didn’t say you haven’t done any tuning, I said you haven’t done any “using the telemetry” to truly know what tuning is like using it.

Now the best part: “Yeah, I OBVIOUSLY haven’t done any tuning or anything to help the community.”
Hmm… I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that you haven’t done “anything to help the community.” Lets see…
I quote from myself: “Random none helpful statements does not help the community.” Which is true, it doesn’t. But how can you go from random statements, to never doing anything to help the community, big difference! Saying that real life and Forza is not the same (which is obvious) is a random statement which in NO WAY helps the community!

Now there is no point in my post that I said ‘this happens in Forza.’ All I did was just give a generic example.
If I did say blah blah this happens in Forza, in science when you make a statement or a hypothesis, you then test it. Now, once you test it, you then try to disprove the statement which then could back up or back down the original statement. If YOU do not approve of my generic example, it is then YOUR responsibility to then disprove the statement. Admittedly it is also partly my responsibility, but for the sake of debate and this not being a personal investigation, it would then be YOUR responsibility to disprove! So yet again, twisting my words, and making more assumptions!

Now just to clarify and conclude this ridiculous debate, I gave an example to show what you are aiming for when changing the tyre pressures on your car. I did NOT use real data, nor did I intent to, but I was giving an example that would clearly show the community that the centre temp should be between the inner and outer temps.

Now that you’ve made a fool of yourself, hopefully you’ll stop twisting my words and future posts via me or others!

Now, for someone who hasn’t made such a fool of themselves…

I quote from myself: “you should be looking for a centre temp that is roughly in the middle of the outer and inner temps”
That means; the difference between the centre temp - outer temp = inner temp - centre temp
Using my Example: 196 - 193 = 193 - 190 … 3 = 3

Now, when I use REAL data, I always quote what car I used and track. So as I didn’t quote them, this was NOT real data and thus was just a generic example (which can happen in real life, didn’t say it happens in Forza) to CLEARLY show the community that you want the centre temp to be between the inner and outer temps. So, if it is perfectly in the middle don’t change it, but if it’s out by a certain degree increase or decrease the pressure to make the difference equal.

If I said…

Inner: 196, middle: 195, outer: 190 = Tyre Pressure too high
Inner: 196, middle: 191, outer 190 = Tyre Pressure too low
Inner: 196, middle: 193, outer 190 = Perfect tyre pressure

I’m still clearly showing that the middle temp needs to be between the inner and outer temps, but to clearly show this I used more extreme values. Don’t see how that became such a fuss… people these days!

Now, I wasn’t saying that what you said was a live/die rule, just saying that people should see what works for them rather them following suit, didn’t mean to come off as if I was saying that you were wrong, just trying to show that your boundaries are different to what I’ve found and that people, as I said, should see what they find - so for that I am sorry.

I like helping the community, but I prefer that I give a way for them to test it, then they go out and see what they find/investigate rather then saying this is what I find Data Data Data.

But anyway, at least you didn’t twist my words like FOOT =]

RR