AWD Swapping and the STATE of Multiplayer

Pretty sure 95% of the online player base can relate here but AWD Swapping Playground…

Although AWD swapping would generally be considered the norm for an open world, it’s now got to the point where because of such low PI cost and minimal performance drop in your cars, AWD swapping is literally everywhere online. I’m not here to tell people what they can and cant do with their vehicles but there’s genuinely no experimentation or an effort at players driving cars as they SHOULD be…

My recommendations would be :

  1. Lengthen tracks considerably to allow RWD’s to be effective.
  2. Significantly increase the PI cost for AWD swaps (would solve many problems and allow minimal engine upgrades to be installed)

Well, I don’t think you could implement those changes now, perhaps in FH5?

Admittedly, the first thing I do with any new car is the AWD swap. Two reasons:

  1. Turning Traction Control ON is a penalty to CR income; AWD doesn’t need Traction Control.
  2. Swapping AWD and Transmission allows for instant shift changes (when using Manual without clutch). Otherwise, most PRE-2000 vehicles have a definite “shift lag”.

If Traction Control didn’t have a penalty (like FM7), it might be worth using RWD. But then again, FH4 is so highly focused on drifting, running traction control can be a detriment.

I don’t know… it’s a Catch-22. What do you do?

What is the penalty for traction control in FM7
Or are you thinking of friction assist

FM7 does NOT have a penalty for Traction Control. (I re-read my sentence on it and it looks correct to me.)

Every Horizon is like this. I’m not saying I like it but it seems to be the way PG wants it or it would have changed by now. It is easier obviously and most likely keeps more people playing which is all they want. Something like RWD adventure would be most welcome.


The penalty for TCS in every Forza is a slower car in 99% of the time. I hope FM8 gets adjustable assists (say 5 different TCS intensities).

OT: AWD balancing for Horizon is an ambitious goal.

  • The PI system needs a complete overhaul.
  • The base grip AWD provides needs to be lowered. 500kg weight, chassis from the 70’s, tires out of something rubber-related and the size of shopping kart wheels. Sure, strap on this 5mm rear wing and the car can handle 800 bhp.
  • Oversteery springs and the “cheating” 1/65 ARBs which cost basically nothing but turn every AWD car into something drivable.
  • An incredibly powerful race diff which costs 0! PI and turns the car into everything you want it to be.
  • Rear tire width that increases the grip and decreases PI.
  • Mid-engine cars which highly profit from AWD-swapping (I don’t know why).

I don’t think we’ll ever see a good PI system in Horizon. Free roam, Dirt & Cross-Country will always be AWD territory and if PG considers those fundamental changes for the Street/Road part only… I doubt it.
At least the “rocket ships” from H3 got eradicated for the most part in H4. Only RWD “rocket ships” are possible which is okayish. Strong in Rivals, not very useful in online races. I’ve not seen complaints about the Shelby Monaco KC on S900 or the Ferrari 166MM on A800, although they are way more overpowered than the Bone Shaker.
Track-Tor on B700 is something else of course. Probably the most overpowered car in the entire history of Horizon. Even the A800 WRX '04 from H3 wasn’t this insane.


*…and C600 and D500; it’s just as ridiculous down in the cellar (Peel nonsense there, too). And just curious on your opinions about the HooniFord RS200…?

Although the Hoonigan RS200 undoubtly is the king of “Rallye Monsters” on S900 it can be rivaled by some other cars with Dirt builds. Bone Shaker, Cayman GTS widebody, Ford '32 Custom, TVR Tuscan and others.
The RS200 has the best handling but the lack of power helds it back from being op. The Bone Shaker or '32 Custom smoke it on every straightish section.


This is the least of my worries. Multiplayer is ruined from what I would call “combat driving”. Generally most people don’t race in multiplayer. They drive to take you out. Into a obstacle like a tree or wall. Or if they are really vengeful they push you off so you miss a check point. I think I’m going to go to Forza 7 in hopes of finding some racing and not combat driving.


Interesting, my multiplayer experiences in FM7 were just as obnoxious, if not more, than here in H4…


That’s disappointing…

I find H4 cleaner than F7. Sad to say.


In FH2, FH3, and FM6 all I did was multiplayer. But FM7 weened me off it because of the toxic environment. I know FM7 now has a penalty system, but I just have such a sour taste from launch that I still avoid it.

Unfortunately, FH4 followed suit and marketed to such a wide audience that there are just too many casual players who just want to fool around in the game.

Perhaps in another year when all the casual players have moved on and just the fans remain… multiplayer might be worth revisiting.


It has a penalty system in one hopper. They said it was coming to A and S but that is yet to happen.

I’d love the XP-based scoring system back. It wasn’t that focused on the position on the finish line. If you weren’t first but you raced clean you could still win. Players were encouraged to race clean.
It made that system more peaceful/chill and in my opinion better suited to this game than the current position-based system where players do anything it takes to be first, including the use of dirty methods.


This right here. I created a thread about this and didn’t receive much feedback but it seemed like an even split of people who like the new system verse the old.

People who like the new system said that drifters would win the championships with the old system which is not really true. If drifters didn’t finish the race , they only received half their points. Also if you raced clean and came in the top 3 every race you could easily win the championship depending on how clean the other guys were coming in the top 3.

By no means was the old points system perfect but as you stated it promoted CLEAN racing which made it much more exciting IMO. They should have tweaked that system instead of changing it to this abysmal destruction derby garbage. I won’t play this game at all when it comes to competitive MP. I stick with H2 or H3 for that.

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In response to the OP:

Making AWD cost more PI is definitely needed. Additionally, there should be a LOT more restrictions on AWD swaps. Maybe do something similar to what the homologation system in FM7 tried to accomplish, with having sets of race rules that can be easily applied to races beyond just picking a list of eligible cars and PI ratings. That way it would be easy to create races that forbid AWD conversions, or AWD vehicles altogether to encourage more variety.

Another tangent, but more races with nice weather would help a lot as well with making RWD more viable. The way things are now with the seasons and the weather system, it’s quite rare to find a race with dry tarmac, yet the vast majority of the cars in the game aren’t AWD without conversions, further encouraging players to swap in AWD.

In response to some of the other comments on multiplayer:

Outside of playing with friends (even then things can get toxic sometimes) or in a tightly regulated environment (i.e. heavily moderated servers with good admins/moderators), I don’t think I’ve seen a competitive multiplayer game that wasn’t toxic. Unfortunately in most cases competition seems to bring out the worst in people (both in games and IRL) with some people doing anything they can to get ahead.

Other than the above-mentioned solutions of playing with friends or in a tightly controlled environment, I don’t really see a way to really solve the fundamental problem with competitive multiplayer. My suggestion would be to put in more cooperative events. The Forzathon Live events are a good start, but get tedious and repetitive after awhile. Even the trial format could be a good game mode, the biggest problem right now with that mode IMHO is that the only difficulty option is Unbeatable which immediately locks out a lot of players from being able to enjoy it. Additionally, the combination of exclusive rewards frequently locked behind the trial and the ability for a poor team to prevent a good player from getting that exclusive reward creates its own toxicity of players blaming teammates.

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Oddly, if you drive a car in it’s base form (RWD/FWD/Mid engine etc.) and only add AWD (not even the parts like clutch or diff.), it feels like they are using a different tire model completely. For example a tail happy mid engine car suddenly becomes planted while only adding front drive. Under steer does come into play with some cars, but not as much as it should, especially if your not changing out any other parts. It can even somewhat tame an older 911 (to a degree).

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My guess is it just feels more grippyerer bc the rear wheels are getting sent ~35% less power


But in the case of the 911’s, it’s not really power that causes it’s tail happy behavior. It is off throttle situations that cause the sliding.