ABS is useless

Long story short, when using ABS the cars feel like they brake on an ice along with taking an ages to stop.

Now I don’t know why ABS is so hated by some people, but fact on the matter is that it effectively shortens the braking distance on solid surfaces, like concrete or tarmac, while increasing the braking distance on loose surface like gravel or snow.
I understand that the aim is to not have everyone running with ABS just to be as fast as possible and get the edge, but penalising those that do use it by making braking just worthless is a step way too far. Making it to work as well as braking without ABS should be the aim, not gimping it to a level where car takes a lot longer to stop and handles like it’s on ice. At least for road cars if not for all.

The game is great, but this single aspect is a game-breaker for me. Not because I can’t drive without it, but simply because I don’t like driving without it. I’d like to be as competitive as those that opt to not use it. They get the bonus to experience after all, that should be enough of a disadvantage for ABS users.

I find it to work fine but everyone’s play styles is different. I certainly notice it kick in when using my Xbox One elite controller as the trigger force feedback kicks in epwhen abs is activated allowing me to learn the braking for each car. It certainly helps improving playstyles

It does kick in, I agree on that. Problem is that the cars simply have a lot worse braking performance when you have ABS on. By performance I mean braking distance. I wouldn’t even mind that slidey behaviour that much if it would at least perform properly. As it stands now I can brake more effectively without ABS while using 50-60% of the brakes than flooring the brakes with ABS on. It’s like just turning it on makes braking passively worse.

Not exactly true to life but the way to effectively brake with ABS on is to “Dab” on and off the brake… Slows you down well and doesnt make you just float along the tarmac into the back of someone. Not ideal but it works.

^ not true! You need to threshold brake. Even in ABS cars you arent supposed to just slam on the brakes and let the abs do the work. Try to come as close to the point of the abs kicking in as you can. Dabbing the brakes will not slow you nearly as effectively as braking at 90% of the cars capability and not even having abs kick on at all. You can brake the same with abs on as off you just need to change how you are braking. IRL in racing the guys in the GT3 cars (gentleman drivers included) do not just go into every corner and slam the brakes on as hard as they can and let the abs do the work, they still attempt to brake as if abs was off, just makes the errors of a lockup less pronounced and they are able to compete at a higher level with the guys not using abs.

Yes, slamming the brakes is not the answer with abs but the other side of the coin is that running without it the brakes lock up way to easily and then you loe the ability to steer.

The issue is that the Forza devs want everyone to use the product the way they envision it, and that is without assists, so they penalize performance for any use of assists. It is not realistic or modern but they hold to old styles, everyone should race with manual w/ clutch, no abs, no tcs or stm etc. and that is not only frustrating, it is unrealistic. Until they can prove it I will continue to believe that every assist used a negative performance value is applied and every one you turn off has a positive performance value applied. How else do you explain manual w/ clutch being faster than manual? Everyone likes to talk about reality and how cars perform in real life. Let’s take reality then, the need of two inputs (a button to shift and a button to clutch) should take longer to process than a single input and both should take longer than no input (automatic). The reason it doesn’t, artificially manipulated values in the data table.

fact of the matter is because when you use the manual setting you are going by the per car clutch and shift speed vs however fast you can do it with your fingers

Do you know that as actual fact? So you are saying that modern cars with paddle shifting are still slower in shift speed than cars that need a clutch to shift? If a real car uses paddle shifting why is it then not faster in the game to use manual than manual w/ clutch?

I’m just trying to understand the rationale and where you can see the clutch and shift speeds that are in the data tables to show that those cars are inherently faster than paddle shifting or even automatics with modern transmissions.

I might be misinterpreting you but regular road cars from top brands with double clutch automatic gearboxes can shift in under 100ms with top end cars approaching 25ms to engage/disgage the 2ns clutch. That said, the game Forza still seems to think/feel that automatic gearboxes are lazy and will hardly ever redline so in the game, they are extremely slow compared to manual or manual+clutch.

I have a hard time understanding this (for the game); in real life I drove/owned several fast cars with manual / paddle / full auto gears and in all honesty, nothing pulls away faster from a red light than a good (and tuned!!!) automatic. My Audi redlines at 6900rpm in sports-mode but will still shift in the blink of an eye.

Weight saving? Even in a run of the mill minivan, ABS shouldn’t weigh more than 15kg over non-ABS. Although 15kg is a lot for race-cars, it is/was present in several race-classes around the world including the infamous/notorious F1-cars. Then again, 15kg has decided races before (like, pitting but no refuelling since 20 litres of race-fuel weighs about 15kg).

Do you even own a drivers license?

ABS is meant to be able to steer clear from danger when you slam on the brakes. In the old days, you would lock up the brakes, try to steer and just go straight. With ABS, you can steer (somewhat) and still have full braking-power.

ABS is absolutely not meant to put on full braking power and still stop at a shorter distance under whatever circumstance. I’ve completed several advanced driving courses including on puddles of water (aquaplaning) and snow and never was I allowed to use ABS. Always brake to 99.99% towards when the ABS wants to kick in but never let it kick in.

And how many ‘race cars’ have anyone here ever been in that had ABS … ?

ABS is for the ‘road’ - Race cars generally do not have ABS installed due to weight saving

^ not true. Gt3 cars have abs. You can turn it off and it works much better and can be fine tuned unlike forza but they have it.

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