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Ok, guys and gals of Forza 3. A few of my friends and myslef conducted 2 seprate fuel economy tests in Forza Motorsport3. Our Results were kind of shocking, We put a Saleen s331 aginst an Acura NSX in gas mileage on Benchmark High Speed Ring, The Acura and the Saleen truck ran out of fuel at the exact sme place on the track and coasted to within 20 feet of each other. The second Test put an Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione, a BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS, and an Aston Martin one-77. In a time based run on Benchmark High Speed Ring. The Alfa Remeo 8c Competizione went the farthest with the BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS in second place with finally the Aston Martin one-77 in third place. The diffrence in the second test was the way the cars went around the track, The Aston Martin one-77 took a higher line around the track then the BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS took a lower line on the track but the Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione took a low line sometimes hitting the apron during testing. These two seprate events prove that ALL cars in Forza Motorsport 3 have EXACTLY The same gas Mileage when stock.

  If Tun 10 put so much effort into making a Racing Simulator, then personaly I would have made the gas mileage a major contributing factor in the game itself, I understand that it would be an imense quanity of work to get all of the gas mileage in the game atleast semi-accurately but i would have made it a cornerstone of the realisim of the game.

Now, all of that being said, I am a big fan of the game itself this will in no way shape form or fashion change the way i look at or play the game, I just felt the need to point out that all factory stock cars have the smae fuel economy.

 Thanks For Reading,

Beathalor

Team Forza Auctions

www.forzaauctions.com

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but what about, using a D class car fuel lasts half a long race 25 laps + but on the same track in R1 you can do more laps with out pitting. maby there is a difference but only in Class

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Eclipse gsx ftw

Love to get the 1999 one please please please!!

Beathalor:

Ok, guys and gals of Forza 3. A few of my friends and myslef conducted 2 seprate fuel economy tests in Forza Motorsport3. Our Results were kind of shocking, We put a Saleen s331 aginst an Acura NSX in gas mileage on Benchmark High Speed Ring, The Acura and the Saleen truck ran out of fuel at the exact sme place on the track and coasted to within 20 feet of each other. The second Test put an Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione, a BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS, and an Aston Martin one-77. In a time based run on Benchmark High Speed Ring. The Alfa Remeo 8c Competizione went the farthest with the BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS in second place with finally the Aston Martin one-77 in third place. The diffrence in the second test was the way the cars went around the track, The Aston Martin one-77 took a higher line around the track then the BMW Motorsport Z4 S drive 35 iS took a lower line on the track but the Alfa Romeo 8c Competizione took a low line sometimes hitting the apron during testing. These two seprate events prove that ALL cars in Forza Motorsport 3 have EXACTLY The same gas Mileage when stock.

  If Tun 10 put so much effort into making a Racing Simulator, then personaly I would have made the gas mileage a major contributing factor in the game itself, I understand that it would be an imense quanity of work to get all of the gas mileage in the game atleast semi-accurately but i would have made it a cornerstone of the realisim of the game.

Now, all of that being said, I am a big fan of the game itself this will in no way shape form or fashion change the way i look at or play the game, I just felt the need to point out that all factory stock cars have the smae fuel economy.

 Thanks For Reading,

Beathalor

Team Forza Auctions

www.forzaauctions.com

 

This is sort of old news. Even in FM2, the fuel consumption was exactly the same between vehicles. The only difference is in the Aero.

If 2 of the same vehicles start out with opposite amounts of Aero (as in 1 all the way to speed, the other all the way to cornering), the car with less Aero will run further before it runs out of fuel. This is due to the drag introduced by the extra downforce.

Damage to the vehicle will also cause extra drag, but only if simulation damage is turned on.  

bneale

Lewis VR:

but what about, using a D class car fuel lasts half a long race 25 laps + but on the same track in R1 you can do more laps with out pitting. maby there is a difference but only in Class

 

Since no one tested it and we have no official data, we dont know it i guess.

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And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Bily84:

Lewis VR:

but what about, using a D class car fuel lasts half a long race 25 laps + but on the same track in R1 you can do more laps with out pitting. maby there is a difference but only in Class

 

Since no one tested it and we have no official data, we dont know it i guess.

I've tested this and I know that between classes, there is no difference in fuel consumption. The only time there is a difference is when you start introducing drag and downforce into the mix.

The more drag on the vehicle, the less distance it travels before it runs out of gas.

bneale

Since the fuel economy is worse with an upgraded car (think, not sure, but it appears that I pit more often in endurance class' in upgraded cars) I wonder if there is a fixed percentage that your fuel consumption changes per class.

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You also have to assume that all fuel tanks are the same size, which is obviously not realistic. The fact is that fuel doesn't come into play in 99% of races, so I doubt they'll put much effort into it unless endurance racing becomes a bigger part of the franchise in the future.

RS lordfantas:

You also have to assume that all fuel tanks are the same size, which is obviously not realistic. The fact is that fuel doesn't come into play in 99% of races, so I doubt they'll put much effort into it unless endurance racing becomes a bigger part of the franchise in the future.

I disagree.

This was suppost to be a simulation game. What's the point of collecting all of the real world data, running the cars over a dyno, and accurately modeling their characteristics just to leave out fuel consumption? It just seems like wasted effort to me.

bneale

After some extensive testing, by means of dozens of endurance races between 1-4 hours long using distance traveled as a win condition, I can safely conclude for each car in the game that none of them will travel more than 100 miles before running out of fuel in FM3. The only slight discrepancies I've noticed are that high downforce cars, especially race cars will run out of fuel 5 - 10 miles before the 100 mile mark.

@bneale - I agree it does seem like a waste, but with the extensive upgrade system it would be hard to predict gas mileage for many cars. For example, what's the fuel mileage is for a 700 BHP AWD Dodge Viper ACR?

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craniac442:

After some extensive testing, by means of dozens of endurance races between 1-4 hours long using distance traveled as a win condition, I can safely conclude for each car in the game that none of them will travel more than 100 miles before running out of fuel in FM3. The only slight discrepancies I've noticed are that high downforce cars, especially race cars will run out of fuel 5 - 10 miles before the 100 mile mark.

@bneale - I agree it does seem like a waste, but with the extensive upgrade system it would be hard to predict gas mileage for many cars. For example, what's the fuel mileage is for a 700 BHP AWD Dodge Viper ACR?

There must be some sort of equation that can produce proper numbers. Even after upgrades, fuel mileage should still be easily modeled.

There must be a way of calculating fuel consumption based on displacement, air flow, fuel delivery system, and aero dynamic drag. Even after you've made upgrades to the car, the upgrades only improve or degrade these area's. The only tricky parts would be dealing with Turbo's and Superchargers and the differences in boost amounts.

If they can accurately model the sidewall flex of a tire over any given surface, surely the same math wizards can come up with a system which accurately models fuel consumption.

bneale

And the AI in FM3 is cheating :) i ran a race 2 hours on Benchmark A and after ca.50 mins my car stopped but the AI is still driving remember there is no pit but they dont care and drive and drive and ...

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bneale:

craniac442:

After some extensive testing, by means of dozens of endurance races between 1-4 hours long using distance traveled as a win condition, I can safely conclude for each car in the game that none of them will travel more than 100 miles before running out of fuel in FM3. The only slight discrepancies I've noticed are that high downforce cars, especially race cars will run out of fuel 5 - 10 miles before the 100 mile mark.

@bneale - I agree it does seem like a waste, but with the extensive upgrade system it would be hard to predict gas mileage for many cars. For example, what's the fuel mileage is for a 700 BHP AWD Dodge Viper ACR?

There must be some sort of equation that can produce proper numbers. Even after upgrades, fuel mileage should still be easily modeled.

There must be a way of calculating fuel consumption based on displacement, air flow, fuel delivery system, and aero dynamic drag. Even after you've made upgrades to the car, the upgrades only improve or degrade these area's. The only tricky parts would be dealing with Turbo's and Superchargers and the differences in boost amounts.

If they can accurately model the sidewall flex of a tire over any given surface, surely the same math wizards can come up with a system which accurately models fuel consumption.

bneale

Or if not accurately then at lest better then 1 size fits all. Also if could add a new upgrade option.  Fuel tanks.  Where you can adjust the size of the fuel tank. 

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One day im going to buy a viper and make it awd just to prove it can be done.

I don't disagree that its somewhat surprising that they didn't bother to model fuel efficiency. I'm was just saying that since the vast majority of races run are relatively short, I'm not surprised that they didn't bother because it doesn't matter 99% of the time. Yes there are some endurance races in career mode, and you can set up a custom race however you want (almost), but it doesn't change the fact that going through the trouble to model different cars fuel efficiency wouldn't be noticeable to most people. I'm not saying it would be a waste for them to do it, I'm just saying I understand why they cut that corner.

Would the game be improved if they had modeled fuel efficiency and let you upgrade your fuel tank size, modeled the changes in weight distribution as you run lower on fuel, etc? Of course, but to do so would have required additional time and $. Its not perfect, but its close enough for me.

RS lordfantas:

I don't disagree that its somewhat surprising that they didn't bother to model fuel efficiency. I'm was just saying that since the vast majority of races run are relatively short, I'm not surprised that they didn't bother because it doesn't matter 99% of the time. Yes there are some endurance races in career mode, and you can set up a custom race however you want (almost), but it doesn't change the fact that going through the trouble to model different cars fuel efficiency wouldn't be noticeable to most people. I'm not saying it would be a waste for them to do it, I'm just saying I understand why they cut that corner.

Would the game be improved if they had modeled fuel efficiency and let you upgrade your fuel tank size, modeled the changes in weight distribution as you run lower on fuel, etc? Of course, but to do so would have required additional time and $. Its not perfect, but its close enough for me.

When you say "majority of races", are you talking about Forza or are you talking about real life?

Your right when it comes to online hoppers in Forza. It doesn't make any sense.

But I specifically race endurances races which are setup so your forced to pit once. We normally race 35 lap races, sometimes 50 depending on the size of the course. I like the idea of having pit strategy involved with the race.

But FM3 killed the pitstop strategy completely. The tires are barely worn by the time you run out of gas. In FM2, you had to pit for tires more so then fuel. If you waited for your fuel to run out in FM2, your tires would be almost completely gone.

Too me, this was really an important feature which should have been upgraded and improved. Sadly it wasn't. In fact, i'd go out on a limb and say things actually got worse with FM3. Now you have to run over 20 laps of Road America before you run out of fuel.

In FM2, the same car would be completely out of fuel and tires on lap 15.

Don't even get me started on the whole damage settings verses fuel and tire. They shouldn't have been lumped together.

bneale

The fuel consumption figures in Forza3 are far from accurate. I mean, take in to account a standard 30-mile Endurance race in a Class E car. You'd expect a small Hatchback to not use any fuel really, let alone 3/4-of a tank! Even when driving...competitively!

MrCliffy82:

The fuel consumption figures in Forza3 are far from accurate. I mean, take in to account a standard 30-mile Endurance race in a Class E car. You'd expect a small Hatchback to not use any fuel really, let alone 3/4-of a tank! Even when driving...competitively!

Your totally right! Maybe Forza shouldn't try model tires and fuel exactly. Maybe more of a ratio or a percentage would work better.

After all, 50 laps around the smallest course with Fuel + Tires turned on, should mean you have to pit atleast once. Even if those 50 laps were only equal to 30 miles of racing, atleast make it so I used my tires and fuel enough to force me to pit.

Otherwise whats the point in pitting at all?

bneale

I wish the cars used more fuel overall. I wanna pit more in endurance races, and maybe even in shorter races.

And upgrading the fuel tank should be upgradeable on factory cars, to a smaller and safer (not that it would matter in a game) tank. Also amount of fuel, ie weight, should affect handling.

It doesn't have to be that complicated. I don't care that much about realistic consumption, but when they have working gauges, I wish I was forced to look at them more often. Same with engine temperature actually. 

It would be really cool and awesome if some of the mentioned ideas in this thread could make the jump to Forza!

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And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

the funny thing is thy have fuel upgrade auctions and they dont even come into play besides giving your car more horsepower.  Forza 4 should be the game's peak unless Turn 10 releases a massive update.  They tried to do to many things and did so many that they failed to make the game a complete simulation like weather and day and night and RWD burnouts for drag racing but hey its better than Gran turismo.  However they need to include the Hummer H2, H3 and the Jeep Srt-8 

Anyone heard about the new F1 2010 game? I read it will have dynamic weather, night racing and they try the sim physics route. The devs are the one who made GRID.

 

Maybe this game will satisfy the hunger for pit strategies and all this night/rain racing stuff.

 

Also, F1 means there will be at least 20 cars same time on the track.

 

Greetings

 

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/Kptk92/DSC01425.jpg

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And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.