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I have been messing around with my car tuning, and being new to the Forza series, and new to things like dampering, and all the other technical terms, I am in need of some help. I have an an Acura Integra, and a RSX and while I get great performance and handling from these cars, I want to be able to adjust the gear ratios. I like to race on smaller more difficult maps, I really don't like to have my car tuned for long straightaways that are made for say a Corvette or a car that is used for long distance maps. I have everything tuned right except for the gear ratios. Both cars ratios are very thinned out, with my Integra redlining at nearly 10,000 RPM's. The car isn't straining to shift until around 9,000 RPM's or so. I want to be able to drop that to around 7,000 so that I can get through the gears a little bit quicker. Now I can adjust the Final Gear Ratio, but in all honesty, I do not know exactly what this will do. Any help would be appreciated, :)....

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Hey bro, all you have to do is tighten your gears.  Go to tune up then the gears page and move the bar to the left last should bring your top speed down but, increase your acceleration.

Adjusting the gear ratios, will not lower your redline. It will be the same, it's just that the car will get to redline a lot faster. If it redlines at 9,000 RPM shift there, not a 7,000. You are wasting power by doing that.

Final drive is a gear connected to the transmission that alters all gears equally.  Multiply your final drive by each gear ratio to get your overall gear ratio.  For example, if you have a 4:1 final drive, a 3:1 first gear, and a 2:1 second gear, you have a 12:1 gear ratio in first, and an 8:1 ratio in second.

If you wanted second gear closer to first (to keep the revs up) you COULD increase that 8:1 to 10:1 by changing final drive to 5:1, but doing that would ALSO change your first gear to 15:1!

Instead change second gear to 2.5:1... you'll then have 12:1 in first and 10:1 in second.  Remember, closer numbers mean less RPM drop per gear change.

This is all really simple to tune.  Buy the full racing transmission, and go to the speedway.  Are your gears spaced well?  If not, go to your tranny tuning page.  Lets say your RPMs drop too low shifting into third gear.  Take the third gear setting and make the number bigger.  This will place it "closer" to second gear, and reduce the amount of RPM loss between second and third.  Note however that now your fourth gear is spaced further out.  You'll have to fix every gear after the one you adjusted.

Once you have the spacing good between your gears, go to top speed.  If you run out of gear, reduce the final drive number.  If you don't get to the top of final gear, increase the final drive number.  Doing this will keep your gear spacing, but will adjust the overall car speed of each gear.

Make sure your first gear isn't geared to long/short after doing this, of course.  A really long first gear with a low-torque engine (especially VTEC engines with their poor midrange torque) will give you terrible launches.  You REALLY do not want to be stuck in the low-speed cams on a VTEC engine, despite how fun it is when the cams switch over. :)

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user - 0%
Big Mooing Cow is not present
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Excellent, I will hit the test tracks and mess around with those gear ratios and such. Thanks a lot....

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Get your own Gamercard Sig.

Ive tried this method, and ive been pretty successful...

Ive been having problems with first gear though....

I noticed that adjusting the final drive for acceleration makes first gear 'almost' obsolete' -  the acceleration, and life of first gear is so fast that its hardly used....

How would i get a decent first gear that doesnt require me changing all the other gears.... or is it even possible?


I think our community is missing a 'gear tuning' guide... you seem to know alot...  i nominate u   = )

 Thanks a lot Big Mooing Cow. That was the clearest explination of gearing I've seen, and easily the most helpful. You deserve a medal for that.

Good job Mooing Cow, that is a very good explanation.  I have been messing around with gearing so I have a general understanding.  Your explanation is very well appreciated.     

 

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"Open throttle, crowd cheering, finish line up ahead...you are a racecar driver, is there anything better?"

Big Mooing Cow:

Final drive is a gear connected to the transmission that alters all gears equally.  Multiply your final drive by each gear ratio to get your overall gear ratio.  For example, if you have a 4:1 final drive, a 3:1 first gear, and a 2:1 second gear, you have a 12:1 gear ratio in first, and an 8:1 ratio in second.

If you wanted second gear closer to first (to keep the revs up) you COULD increase that 8:1 to 10:1 by changing final drive to 5:1, but doing that would ALSO change your first gear to 15:1!

Instead change second gear to 2.5:1... you'll then have 12:1 in first and 10:1 in second.  Remember, closer numbers mean less RPM drop per gear change.

This is all really simple to tune.  Buy the full racing transmission, and go to the speedway.  Are your gears spaced well?  If not, go to your tranny tuning page.  Lets say your RPMs drop too low shifting into third gear.  Take the third gear setting and make the number bigger.  This will place it "closer" to second gear, and reduce the amount of RPM loss between second and third.  Note however that now your fourth gear is spaced further out.  You'll have to fix every gear after the one you adjusted.

Once you have the spacing good between your gears, go to top speed.  If you run out of gear, reduce the final drive number.  If you don't get to the top of final gear, increase the final drive number.  Doing this will keep your gear spacing, but will adjust the overall car speed of each gear.

Make sure your first gear isn't geared to long/short after doing this, of course.  A really long first gear with a low-torque engine (especially VTEC engines with their poor midrange torque) will give you terrible launches.  You REALLY do not want to be stuck in the low-speed cams on a VTEC engine, despite how fun it is when the cams switch over. :)

Well said! I'd add that the whole point of closely-spaced gears is to keep the engine operating in its optimum RPM range; very important on small-displacement high-revving engines that have a narrow powerband; less important on big, torquey motors with wide powerbands.

Also, every gearshift causes a momentary loss of forward drive and with close tranny ratios you're going to be shifting alot! Make sure to get all of the driveline upgrades you can; clutch, flywheel, etc. to reduce "downtime" as the transmission changes gears.

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"That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace."

–William Gibson

Keep in mind you Do NOT want to do DRASTIC changes to final gear..... and if you do make sure every gear is balaced out. If you have no first gear try lengthing it out but ultimatly you may kill your top speed

One thing I have seen missing from this discussion is the torque values at the various RPM levels for each gear.

As mentioned, final gearing is equal to the FD x GR.  i.e., FD = 3.32 and 1st GR = 3.72 then FR = 12.35.  Now, if the torque value for this car is 160 ftlbs @ 5600 RPM, then the torque at the rear wheels is 12.35 x 160 or 1976 ft lbs.  What you want to do with your gear values and shift points is to not contunue on in a gear if there is  a higher torque value available by shifting to the next gear.  There are a bunch of fixed rules that can be stated here, however, the thing becomes a long list of compromises based on the torque curve, its relation to the Hp curve.  You ultimately need to pick a range that the car operates in best, and then set your gears to keep the shift points within this range.

To wit:  in gears 4, 5, and 6 of a 992 S Class Viper, the optimal shift point is not the red line, more, some where between 6500 and 7000 RPM.  In the first three gears, torque multiplication is so high that it really doesn't matter - run it out to the redline, but shifting into fourth after 7000 means that higher torque has been available in the next gear for almost a 1000 RPM.

Once you have all your engine mods in, study the Dyno graph as well as you can.  Find the optimum ranges.  I plot the torque in 200 rpm increments in a spreadsheet and then multiply it times the FR for each gear for each 200 RPM increment  - this gives  me a table  of torque values and I can see what is going to be happening at each point throughout the range for a gear.  (this example is for a VTec engine - they don't follow the rules , remember - some compromise is in order)

Trans Gear	3.32	3.72	2.70	2.07	1.64	1.32	1.09
Final Ratio		12.35	8.96	6.87	5.44	4.38	3.62
RPM	Torque	1-----------	2-----------	3-----------	4-----------	5-----------	6-----------
5000		0	0	0	0	0	0
5200		0	0	0	0	0	0
5400		0	0	0	0	0	0
5600	160.00	1976	1434	1099	870	701	579
5800	166.00	2050	1487	1140	903	727	601
6000	172.00	2124	1541	1182	936	753	623
6200	178.00	2198	1595	1223	968	780	644
6400	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
6600	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
6800	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
7000	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
7200	180.00	2223	1613	1237	979	788	652
7400	179.00	2211	1604	1230	974	784	648
7600	178.00	2198	1595	1223	968	780	644
7800	177.00	2186	1586	1216	963	775	641
8000	176.00	2174	1577	1209	957	771	637
8200	175.00	2161	1568	1202	952	767	634
8400	174.00	2149	1559	1195	947	762	630
8600	173.00	2137	1550	1189	941	758	626
8800	172.00	2124	1541	1182	936	753	623
9000		0	0	0	0	0	0
9200		0	0	0	0	0	0
9400		0	0	0	0	0	0

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GT=Blooze46/GICheeze

Forza-Tuning

Where do i get the dyno graph?   Is it the graph when buying upgrades?    Ive been using that graph.. but its pretty far from the 'tuning' section of the game (like 4-5 menus away)

Is there a dyno graph closer to the tuning section?

Thanks guys.  Glad to be a help.  :)

I don't think there are many cases where you could adjust final drive to make your first gear usably-long, but still be able to reach the end of your final gear (usually 6th).  Instead I'd use the full racing transmission and tune each gear individually.

Personally, I like a long first gear.  Commonly cars will have a first gear where you could bounce the RPMs off redline as your tires spin all the way to the top speed of first gear.  That's like throwing away a gear, IMHO.  Instead, I prefer to have a first gear long enough that the tires will hook up somewhere around the beginning of the powerband.

Lets say we're driving a stock Miata.  Its powerband is roughly 5500-7000RPM in real life, with some extra "free" RPMs given to you in Forza.  I've tuned my Miata so first gear runs out at 35-40mph.  When I floor the gas to launch the car, and the tires spin as speed rapidly climbs to around 20-25mph.  At that point the tires hook up, and the RPMs are around 5500RPM.  With the gas still to the floor, the car accelerates hard to my 40mph redline.  When I shift to second, the RPMs drop to around 5500RPM.  This continues in third, fourth, and fifth.  In sixth gear I have the car set to start around 6000RPM instead, to make use of peak HP.  Stock at least, the Miata barely needs a sixth gear to reach its terminal velocity.  I shorten sixth gear so the car shifts right into its peak HP RPM, and also so that if I lose a bit of RPM while in sixth (turning, uphill, etc) I don't need to immediately shift back to fifth to keep accelerating.

There's two nice things about tuning gears: first, it's hard to royally screw something up and not know it as soon as you shift.  And second, it's very easy to fix your problems, as there's no complex interrelationships like there are with springs/shocks/bars/brakes/diffs.  So play around!  Worst case, you have to reset to defaults. :)

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user - 0%
Big Mooing Cow is not present
http://www.muscle-inc.net

Kweli:

Where do i get the dyno graph?   Is it the graph when buying upgrades?    Ive been using that graph.. but its pretty far from the 'tuning' section of the game (like 4-5 menus away)

Is there a dyno graph closer to the tuning section?

That's the only one!  Irritating, isn't it?  I always forget to look and have to go back to the upgrades screen. :/

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user - 0%
Big Mooing Cow is not present
http://www.muscle-inc.net

 So I should gear it so that it starts each gear in the RPM range that the blue (torque) line peaks at in that graph?

That would be an ideal.  usually you can't do that.  Cars other than the VTec usually have a torque curve that peaks outside of the Hp range, that is where you have to look into the value of the torque you are leaving and the torque you are moving into.  Best is to move into an area of higher torque than you just left.

As for the graph, I wish they had made a bigger one that was one button click off the transmission screen, but since they didn't, after I have my engine parts dialed in, I plot the graph in my spreadsheet - then it doesn't matter where they put it.

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GT=Blooze46/GICheeze

Forza-Tuning

 What do you mean by outside of the horsepower range? Should I be stepping it up so that my rpm's start higher in each gear? It seems like the higher gears bog down a little more than the lower ones.

Read my guide to tuning gears. It goes in depth on how to get the most out of your car. It talks about the step you need to take to optimize your gears to get to the right speed for the given course you are running.

This is part of a Larger Guide Here.

I hope this helps, let me know if it is hard to follow, I wrote it quickly mostly in response to the comments in this thread.

Jed:

 What do you mean by outside of the horsepower range? Should I be stepping it up so that my rpm's start higher in each gear? It seems like the higher gears bog down a little more than the lower ones.

Look at the dyno graph for the Golf GTi, or for any of the Muscle cars for that matter.  You will see what I mean by the torque curve peaking outside of the Hp curve.

$

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GT=Blooze46/GICheeze

Forza-Tuning

Blooze:

One thing I have seen missing from this discussion is the torque values at the various RPM levels for each gear.

As mentioned, final gearing is equal to the FD x GR.  i.e., FD = 3.32 and 1st GR = 3.72 then FR = 12.35.  Now, if the torque value for this car is 160 ftlbs @ 5600 RPM, then the torque at the rear wheels is 12.35 x 160 or 1976 ft lbs.  What you want to do with your gear values and shift points is to not contunue on in a gear if there is  a higher torque value available by shifting to the next gear.  There are a bunch of fixed rules that can be stated here, however, the thing becomes a long list of compromises based on the torque curve, its relation to the Hp curve.  You ultimately need to pick a range that the car operates in best, and then set your gears to keep the shift points within this range.

To wit:  in gears 4, 5, and 6 of a 992 S Class Viper, the optimal shift point is not the red line, more, some where between 6500 and 7000 RPM.  In the first three gears, torque multiplication is so high that it really doesn't matter - run it out to the redline, but shifting into fourth after 7000 means that higher torque has been available in the next gear for almost a 1000 RPM.

Once you have all your engine mods in, study the Dyno graph as well as you can.  Find the optimum ranges.  I plot the torque in 200 rpm increments in a spreadsheet and then multiply it times the FR for each gear for each 200 RPM increment  - this gives  me a table  of torque values and I can see what is going to be happening at each point throughout the range for a gear.  (this example is for a VTec engine - they don't follow the rules , remember - some compromise is in order)

Trans Gear	3.32	3.72	2.70	2.07	1.64	1.32	1.09
Final Ratio		12.35	8.96	6.87	5.44	4.38	3.62
RPM	Torque	1-----------	2-----------	3-----------	4-----------	5-----------	6-----------
5000		0	0	0	0	0	0
5200		0	0	0	0	0	0
5400		0	0	0	0	0	0
5600	160.00	1976	1434	1099	870	701	579
5800	166.00	2050	1487	1140	903	727	601
6000	172.00	2124	1541	1182	936	753	623
6200	178.00	2198	1595	1223	968	780	644
6400	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
6600	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
6800	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
7000	181.00	2235	1622	1243	985	793	655
7200	180.00	2223	1613	1237	979	788	652
7400	179.00	2211	1604	1230	974	784	648
7600	178.00	2198	1595	1223	968	780	644
7800	177.00	2186	1586	1216	963	775	641
8000	176.00	2174	1577	1209	957	771	637
8200	175.00	2161	1568	1202	952	767	634
8400	174.00	2149	1559	1195	947	762	630
8600	173.00	2137	1550	1189	941	758	626
8800	172.00	2124	1541	1182	936	753	623
9000		0	0	0	0	0	0
9200		0	0	0	0	0	0
9400		0	0	0	0	0	0

Nicely written, Blooze. There's life in the old dog yet, hey?

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Sig made for me by Sturmpanzer - thanks mate!