Forzamotorsport.net Forums

 

Before I start I want to say that I am not perfect and that I have not ways conducted myself in a perfect manor, but I have been around a long time, seen many great people come and go. So I feel I am experienced enough the write this open letter to you all.

 

I’m sure that not everyone here likes me, or for that matter really cares what I have to say, but I am going to say it anyway, having just spent the better part of week reading all the drama that has gone on in the is forum. I am somewhat shocked and disturbed that our community has fallen to such lows.

 

Back in the day when the tuners first started to emerge form the AH forum we used to have an unwritten rule of respect for one another. Our community grow from strength to strength based on this little rule, so much so we got our own subsection of the AH forum we were still managed to find respect for one another. Large garages grow from small ones; people moved between garages, people help other garages just for the sake of the community.

 

Still the strength of the community grow and prospered, so much so that T10 gave us our own place on the front page. (Something that I am immensely proud off)

 

Somehow, somewhere a rot has entered our community to the point were we are becoming like every other forum out there, and I for one DON’T like it one bit.

 

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy rivalry between garages, there is nothing wrong with garages trying to make cars that out perform the other garages, nothing at all, as long as we manage to maintain a level of respect for one another.

 

Therefore I implore you all to consider the recent drama’s that had taken place in our community and say, no this is not acceptable.

 

Draw a line under them. Draw a line under whatever personal issues you have with people or garages.   

 

Let take this community back to were it once was, where is should be. A group of like minded people trying to produce the best possible cars in Forza. 

 

So with this in mind if you feel aggrieved by a person’s action, don’t just sit there and start hitting your keyboard in an unconsidered manner, that your argument straight to a PM, as most of us never need to know your issues.

 

I hope I have offended no one with this letter, and I hope you will all read it and consider it for what it is.

 

An honest plea to all of our communities member to bring back the respect we once had, to bring back the TM were people where happy to post, to bring back the community spirit.

 

Thank you for reading my plea for sanity.

 

Neil    

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The Review

+1  Very well written, I couldn't agree more.

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GT: Yu Tai Mai Shu
Tuner

I was just talking about this with Dean the Dub yesterday.  I initially came online with Forza as a drifter.  I am much more of a race fan at heart, but I was taken by the online play and didn't get into actual multiplayer racing until a little later.  When I finally got around to it, I was immediately smitten with the overall culture of the tuning community.  There were still rivalries, but the culture of friendly competition and maintaining the closest thing to a true tuning garage with professional releases really took me by surprise. 

Unfortunately, a lot of the characteristics that garnered so much excitement during my initial foray into the tuning community have been completely abandoned in favor of vapid, petty squabbling.

As entertaining as it may be to watch the coming of the dramacolypse, I'd just as soon things return to the way they are.  I rather enjoyed them that way.

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Founder of (beta):



ForzaTunes Beta Discussion Thread

Official Seller for Speed Tuning

GT: SurlyOldManMN

ns12345:

 

Back in the day when the tuners first started to emerge form the AH forum we used to have an unwritten rule of respect for one another. Our community grow from strength to strength based on this little rule, so much so we got our own subsection of the AH forum we were still managed to find respect for one another. Large garages grow from small ones; people moved between garages, people help other garages just for the sake of the community.

 

Let take this community back to were it once was, where is should be. A group of like minded people trying to produce the best possible cars in Forza. 

 

I had to quote an emphasize those two points. Neil, I couldn't have said it any better myself. You and I haven't always seen eye to eye (due mainly to a blunder on my part when I was first gettin started in this community), but I have a great deal of respect for you and most of the members of this community. I agree wholeheartedly with your "plea for sanity" and hope that others will too.

Now let me share a little something with everyone... I've been asked a few times why I always sign my posts with "--Kevin", and the obvious answer is because thats my name. But going a step further... the reaso I sign my posts as I do is, in part, to take away the "internet annonymity" that so many people use when posting on the internet. When I sign my name to something it represents me, and who I am. So naturally, I don't want my name attached to anything negative. I prefer to have my name attached to positivity and respect. Thats the way I prefer to be treated, so thats the way I try to conduct myself. Also... just taking the time out to type "--Kevin" gives me just a second to THINK about what I am about to post and decide if its something I want to have my name on. I can't tell you how many times taking just that one simple step has stopped me from making a real baboon's backside out of myself, and I encourage everyone else to give it a try some time.

So, Thanks for posting Neil, and here's to a renewed sense of community in the TM

--Kevin

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Freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose.

+1  Very well said Neil.  I agree with you 100%.  It is almost painful to read through threads anymore.

 

BTW- I like you.

Edit:  I have to agree with Pothole's sentiments as well.

-Nic

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GT: BravoXXX


Bruther Superior's Tuner Profile

Good post Neil, couldnt agree more.  This is the reason I've pretty much stopped posting here, Im sick of all the drama.  These forums used to make the game more fun, now they've just become an eyesore.

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GT=JeffKill

The easiest solution is to eliminate the problem.

pothole0222:

When I sign my name to something it represents me, and who I am. So naturally, I don't want my name attached to anything negative. I prefer to have my name attached to positivity and respect. Thats the way I prefer to be treated, so thats the way I try to conduct myself.

I've posted a similar sentiment a few times on this board.  If people simply refrain from saying anything on a message board that they wouldn't be comfortable saying face to face, 90% of all potential drama is immediately avoided.

That doesn't mean you have to agree with everyone or play nice with people you don't care for.  Just like in real life, occassionaly you're going to have issues with people.  When that happens, there are ways to express those issues without resorting to the type of vapid [mod edit-FS] that has been prevelant here the last week or so.

Remember, diplomacy is the ability to tell someone to go the hell in such away that they actually look forward to the trip... 

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Founder of (beta):



ForzaTunes Beta Discussion Thread

Official Seller for Speed Tuning

GT: SurlyOldManMN

kevin your a great guy and I do remember our little ding dong, but I think thats a perfect example of of how people can put things behind them and move on to a better place.

As you and I have, the fact that we are cool with each other and would be happy to work along side one another proves that this community is strong.

So I will join your toast buddy.

To the community

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The Review

GrumpyOldMan:

pothole0222:

When I sign my name to something it represents me, and who I am. So naturally, I don't want my name attached to anything negative. I prefer to have my name attached to positivity and respect. Thats the way I prefer to be treated, so thats the way I try to conduct myself.

I've posted a similar sentiment a few times on this board.  If people simply refrain from saying anything on a message board that they wouldn't be comfortable saying face to face, 90% of all potential drama is immediately avoided.

+1... it REALLY is that simple.

--Kevin

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Freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose.

I have to agree with you, I've not been around too long but I've seen everything go downhill and I think I know the date it started - 25th December 2007

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Lewis Hamilton, World Champion 2008

ns12345:

 

Before I start I want to say that I am not perfect and that I have not ways conducted myself in a perfect manor, but I have been around a long time, seen many great people come and go. So I feel I am experienced enough the write this open letter to you all.

 

I’m sure that not everyone here likes me, or for that matter really cares what I have to say, but I am going to say it anyway, having just spent the better part of week reading all the drama that has gone on in the is forum. I am somewhat shocked and disturbed that our community has fallen to such lows.

 

Back in the day when the tuners first started to emerge form the AH forum we used to have an unwritten rule of respect for one another. Our community grow from strength to strength based on this little rule, so much so we got our own subsection of the AH forum we were still managed to find respect for one another. Large garages grow from small ones; people moved between garages, people help other garages just for the sake of the community.

 

Still the strength of the community grow and prospered, so much so that T10 gave us our own place on the front page. (Something that I am immensely proud off)

 

Somehow, somewhere a rot has entered our community to the point were we are becoming like every other forum out there, and I for one DON’T like it one bit.

 

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy rivalry between garages, there is nothing wrong with garages trying to make cars that out perform the other garages, nothing at all, as long as we manage to maintain a level of respect for one another.

 

Therefore I implore you all to consider the recent drama’s that had taken place in our community and say, no this is not acceptable.

 

Draw a line under them. Draw a line under whatever personal issues you have with people or garages.   

 

Let take this community back to were it once was, where is should be. A group of like minded people trying to produce the best possible cars in Forza. 

 

So with this in mind if you feel aggrieved by a person’s action, don’t just sit there and start hitting your keyboard in an unconsidered manner, that your argument straight to a PM, as most of us never need to know your issues.

 

I hope I have offended no one with this letter, and I hope you will all read it and consider it for what it is.

 

An honest plea to all of our communities member to bring back the respect we once had, to bring back the TM were people where happy to post, to bring back the community spirit.

 

Thank you for reading my plea for sanity.

 

Neil    

Very well written mate i am reletively new compared to some of the guys on here but when i first started using the Tm i also felt the passion which people felt for turning out the best possible cars so much so that i setup my own garage as i wanted to feel a part of it no matter how small my input was and it seems a shame that recently things have spiralled a little out of control, i myself got into a petty squabble on the Ah forum ( 1 of my 1st posts ) in which i was selling cars locked i might add but they were not my designs i didnt realise the sort of unwritten code of conduct and things you dont do and if i could go back i would have apologised straight away and drawn a line under the whole thing but i guess you learn by your mistakes, there are a lot of talented people playing this game and posting on this forum and i too hope we can all get back to what we all love doing the most which is producing quality cars at reasonable prices for all to enjoy ( sorry for being a bit long winded lol ) 

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Ill drink to that

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[PLOP SHOP] Your Favorite for B class! : plopracing.road2us.com

"STAY PLOPED" GT:SemperPLOP

ns12345:

 

Before I start I want to say that I am not perfect and that I have not ways conducted myself in a perfect manor, but I have been around a long time, seen many great people come and go. So I feel I am experienced enough the write this open letter to you all.

 

I’m sure that not everyone here likes me, or for that matter really cares what I have to say, but I am going to say it anyway, having just spent the better part of week reading all the drama that has gone on in the is forum. I am somewhat shocked and disturbed that our community has fallen to such lows.

 

Back in the day when the tuners first started to emerge form the AH forum we used to have an unwritten rule of respect for one another. Our community grow from strength to strength based on this little rule, so much so we got our own subsection of the AH forum we were still managed to find respect for one another. Large garages grow from small ones; people moved between garages, people help other garages just for the sake of the community.

 

Still the strength of the community grow and prospered, so much so that T10 gave us our own place on the front page. (Something that I am immensely proud off)

 

Somehow, somewhere a rot has entered our community to the point were we are becoming like every other forum out there, and I for one DON’T like it one bit.

 

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy rivalry between garages, there is nothing wrong with garages trying to make cars that out perform the other garages, nothing at all, as long as we manage to maintain a level of respect for one another.

 

Therefore I implore you all to consider the recent drama’s that had taken place in our community and say, no this is not acceptable.

 

Draw a line under them. Draw a line under whatever personal issues you have with people or garages.   

 

Let take this community back to were it once was, where is should be. A group of like minded people trying to produce the best possible cars in Forza. 

 

So with this in mind if you feel aggrieved by a person’s action, don’t just sit there and start hitting your keyboard in an unconsidered manner, that your argument straight to a PM, as most of us never need to know your issues.

 

I hope I have offended no one with this letter, and I hope you will all read it and consider it for what it is.

 

An honest plea to all of our communities member to bring back the respect we once had, to bring back the TM were people where happy to post, to bring back the community spirit.

 

Thank you for reading my plea for sanity.

 

Neil    

+1  Great Read!  Let everyone do their part here keep the [mod edit-FS] out of the Tuning Marketplace and get back to doing what we're capible of, building bad [mod edit-FS] cars for the Forza Community!  Having a little friendly competition doesn't hurt either!  Just keep it civil!

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GT: X Hot Wheels X
Negative Camber - Co-Founder
Don't Hate Me Cause I'm Small!

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2008568.aspx

[mod edit-FS]

My post was not directed at any of the tuning garages directly. Its just a general plea for us ALL to be mind full of one another.

All I am sayng is we should all try to take a higher ground and if we feel the need to have a "discussion" then lets all take it to a PM (were it belongs) keeping the TM clear of battles.

 

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The Review

Pepper21:

dRizZe:

Good post Neil but unfortunately I don't ever see it getting back to the way it used to be. There used to be a great deal of respect between tuners and tuning garages but that does not exist any more. Sure, I still fully respect the old timers but there are few in here that I will never have any respect for.

Tuning AG for some reason or another has always been the recipient of 'snide' remarks from certain members of the community. I have let it go for a LONG time but recently, I am just fed up with it. So yeah, I do blame myself for some recent drama but thats because I am not keeping my mouth shut anymore. I have never "called anyone out" or started a thread about a person or tuning garage and never will. If someone is going to be ignorant and call me out or AG why should I be the good guy and just take it?

IMO, your cars speak for themselves man. you have won every contest i've seen you enter, and not just won, but destroyed the competition. seems like when you enter everyone else is just shooting for 2nd place.

i don't think anyone really pays those comments any mind, personally i just skip over them. i'm sure one man's opinion doesnt matter, but i respected it more when you did take the high road, and just let it go. i'm sure that was tough for you, because no one likes being treated like that, but at least then it didnt turn into a giant war that really didnt end up accomplishing anything.

hopefully some kind of understanding can be reached, because if this place implodes we're going to miss out on a lot of great cars, a good few of which i'm sure would be from you and AG.

Thank you. This is actually good therapy because I have a lot of built up frustration. I will do my best from now on to ignore the negativity and just move on. I do feel the need to defend my garage because I am very proud of what we have achieved as a group. IMO, AG has some of the most knowledgable people I have met on Forza and its frustrating that "pot shots" are taken on the garage.

Neil, I did not take this thread as something geared towards me. I am man enough to admit fault and thats what I did.  We have always had respect for each other and i don't ever see that changing.

I want to apologize to the community as whole for my recent actions and will go back to taking the high road and ignoring some people. As much as it will bother me, I know it will be better for the community.

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天上天下


The AG ViP 22B... Do you want it?

dRizZe:

I know, I know... but I am tired of the high road because the "remarks" never go away. There is only so much tolerance before an explosion... recently I have exploded.

Its just because I can't take seeing it anymore.. I have been here almost a year. I have seen may things come and go but the one thing that ruined this place (IMO) was making it its own forum. We had a quite little hole tucked underneath the Auction House forum. We became our own section and all hell broke loose.

You can choose how to take interpret the "remarks" you're referring to.  As in real life, the best revenge to someone trying to drag you through the mud is to live well and quite simply not give a [explicative deleted].

Have confidence in what you do and these things will not matter to you.  You have nothing to prove, you have nothing to defend.  You know this and yet you waste your time and energy fighting hopelessly rigged battles that you have already lost by simply allowing yourself to be engaged.  What's the saying?  "Never argue with an idiot, they will simply drag you down to their level and annihilate you with their experience at being an idiot"?

Every other aspect of your garage is absolutely professional to a T.  Why not polish it off by buffering responses to criticism through the same thoughtful process as you do when considering which attribute should be tweaked when working on a tune?  Clearly you have a passion for this game, you owe yourself that much.

---

Founder of (beta):



ForzaTunes Beta Discussion Thread

Official Seller for Speed Tuning

GT: SurlyOldManMN

Sinusitus:

+1  Very well written, I couldn't agree more.

very well written ns12345, i completely agree with everything written and will try to uphold the standards that is expected of the community.

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Fast cars are fast in the straights, Fast drivers are fast in the turns.

Handling > Speed

SaNe 1320:

Sinusitus:

+1  Very well written, I couldn't agree more.

funny to hear this from someone (sinus) who still can't stop PM-ing me with rude things to say.

ANYWAYS!

very well written ns12345, i completely agree with everything written and will try to uphold the standards that is expected of the community.

Excellent!  You could start by not trying to stir the pot in a public thread about things that have been said to you via PM... 

I think this is where a large chunk of the issues we're seeing are coming from.  The inappropriate rescoping of a private conversation as a public conversation, usually with hostile intent.  I would be elated to see a good deal less of this.

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Founder of (beta):



ForzaTunes Beta Discussion Thread

Official Seller for Speed Tuning

GT: SurlyOldManMN

GrumpyOldMan:

SaNe 1320:

Sinusitus:

+1  Very well written, I couldn't agree more.

funny to hear this from someone (sinus) who still can't stop PM-ing me with rude things to say.

ANYWAYS!

very well written ns12345, i completely agree with everything written and will try to uphold the standards that is expected of the community.

Excellent!  You could start by not trying to stir the pot in a public thread about things that have been said to you via PM... 

cursing me out in a PM shouldn't be more accepted than doing it in the forum page.  if your gonna act appropriately, you should do it in all aspects of forzamotorport.net, not just the tuning marketplace.

do you agree?

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Fast cars are fast in the straights, Fast drivers are fast in the turns.

Handling > Speed

+1's to neil, kevin and jeff.

i have to agree more though with what has been posted that this place took a rapid downturn when it got onto the front page. i'll leave that at that for fear of having a rant which is entirely un-needed.

and grumpy has a major point drizzle old pal, be the better man and feel and be seen to be better  . the mood i am in lately it took major self-restraint not to pile in as well 



anyway, anyway, great thread neil.thank you 

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my evo collection , updated 11.11.08 - 166!!