Forzamotorsport.net Forums

i had an epiphany in class today as i was sitting there daydreaming.  Last night i was hosting a room where a pro 21 guy came into my B-class room and pulled out his faithful Mugen Integra.  I promptly asked him to change and he told me that it was crap and what not, i asked him politely again to change his car and he left.  I have wondered why people depend on this car so much, it is fast and all, but isn't the point of the game to have fun? close races are the best, especially when the whole room of 8 cars can stay within 100 meters of each other over the course of the race.  For this reason, i would like to share my idea with you all.

I want to start some sort of community tuning project, working to generate a car (or more than one) that is fast, easy to drive, and most importantly, fun to drive.  This could also help to bring more people into the Forzamotorsport.net community when we have good cars out on the track tearing it up.

I think we should start with the lower classes, perhaps B or A class, which are relatively cheap to build (150 k credits on average unless you go for the exotics) and easier to drive compared to S, U, and the R class, but they are still fast enough to be exciting to new racers.

any ideas, thoughts, or criticism is appreciated.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

Take a look at the top "sticky" thread in this forum, titled "Race Settings Database" - there are already a whole bunch of car setups posted there.

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

i know there are a bunch there already, but there could be a lot more.

The garages are all trying to make money while providing good cars to the community, which is a major part of it, but why not as a community do something to encourage envolvement.  the satisfaction of taking a car and tuning yourself, or with others is a lot greater than just buying a car, or downloading a tune from the leaderboard.  If more people get involved tuning cars, we may possibly find a sleeping giant so to speak that would take the online racing world by storm.  Also, if there are more alternative to the dominant cars, a greater variety of close races could appear, which i know that is what most of the people are here for, close, tight races where everyone is driving clean, but also to the limit, fighting for inches instead of yards like most rooms are online.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

the Mugen Integra is just too common...people see it on the boards and use it. thats all. i cant begin to count the number of times ive destroyed people driving Mugens in my Sentra or tC. Mugens are capable of some very fast times, but those people who drive them to those times are people who could probably do the same in the Sentra or tC or Cobalt.

just use what you like, practice hard, and you can beat those Mugen guys. i see a guy pull out his Mugen, i pull out my Sentra. people dont take enough time with some cars to really see that they are just as or almost as good.

so there are a couple for you to look at...the Sentra, the Scion tC, and the Chevy Cobalt. theyre all good B Class cars. i ran 1:55's in my Sentra at Mugello Long, and 1:29's on Laguna with the Sentra and tC...and still have a top 500 time in my Cobalt at Motegi! try em out. theyre good cars.

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My Band Lucian Scott
http://www.myspace.com/lucianscott *new song posted!*
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GT : SocMonki

i have a sentra, and a cobalt and they are both decently fast.

i am not trying to do this for myself, i am saying that the project would be to help keep people from becoming dependent on cars like the integra.  I have plenty of top 1000 times, but it is sad when i look at the boards, and all the cars around mine are either elise 135R's or Mugen Integras.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

I think it's a good idea. I participated in the race settings database and I still believe it is a good project. Having more cars in there will help everyone, including those of us who actively add tunes. I'm hoping to find some more time myself, because I have a couple of projects I want to try.

I admire your enthusiasm, but I think that there are some people out there who just want to win. These are the ones who quit your room when you won't let them use their Mugen or LB car of their choice. Fun for them is improving their True Skill rank, not running a close race. They will probably always go for the LB cars. For the rest of us, I think this project is a great idea. We may or may not find new cars that can break the top 100, but it will be fun to try. And there will always be people who love a particular car and want a good tune for it. So I say go for it, and I will try to participate as much as I can.

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Proud Ford owner and Ferrari fan.

thank you for your support DecCyclonus.


Does anyone have any ideas on what car to start with, or what class and track type to aim for?

one car that i would personally like to see in A-class would be the dodge stealth.  i think a lot of people would start to drive it because it is so loud when you put the race exhaust on it, and it is decently fast as well.  i will build one with a straight handling build later today and give it a try, i would right now, but my roommate is still asleep.  i think the stealth could do pretty well on short tracks in A class since it has many of the same attributes of the Evo's and Sti's that are at the top of the leaderboard on tracks Tsukuba, such as AWD, and a fair amount of horsepower.

and yes, there are plenty of people i know of that run cars because they like the car, not because it is fast/slow whatever.  a friend of mine that i race with has a thing for Z-cars, i tuned his 432R for him the other night.   I also have a few of my real life car, the '99 civic Si (mine is a black 2000 model, same thing though)  and i have one built in B-class for short tracks and it is my 3rd or 4th fastest on the short tracks, the others being a pair of '06 Si's and a CR-X.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

so, i built this car:

1996 Dodge Stealth
372 hp
366 lb-ft
2705 lbs
57% front weight

Race Exhaust and Engine Block upgrades

All Race platform and handling
Avon race tires
max tire width
19" Enkie RP F1 wheels

Forza Front and Read bumpers and wing.
Varis side skirts

the Tune:
Tires:
F: 28
R: 29

Gearing:
FD: 3.30
1st: 2.89
2nd: 1.99
3rd: 1.43
4th:1.19
5th:1.00
6th:0.85

Camber
F: -0.9
R: -0.9

Toe:
F: 0.1
R: 0.1

Caster:
F: 5.2

Anti-Roll
F: 1.2
R: 40.0

Springs:
F: 375.0
R: 400.3

Ride Height:
F: 5.2
R: 5.2

Rebound:
F: 8.6
R: 8.0

Bound:
F: 3.0
R: 2.8

Aero:
F: 125
R: 150

Brake Balance: 45% front
Brake Pressure: 113%

Front Diff:
Accel: 25%
Decel: 0%

Rear Diff:
Accel: 50%
Decel: 35%

Center:
25/75

I ran a 54.756 at Tsukuba, and then a 41.018 at Tsukuba Short.  i chose these tracks because they were short enough so that i one mistake wouldn't cost me another 3 minutes of a lap like my prefered testing ground King Cobra.  I also know these tracks well enough to be in the top 1000 in the LB with an Evo8 as comparison.  My times in the Evo are 54.304 and 40.952 on the long and short versions respectively.

Feel free to give it a try and post any changes you make to it.  i hit the 54.756 after my 3rd lap in freerun after getting the tune straightened out in test drive mode.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

i just ran a 37:849 on Maple Valley short, placing 1st, just ahead of a champion in a Mugen Integra.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

soc_monki:

the Mugen Integra is just too common...people see it on the boards and use it. thats all. i cant begin to count the number of times ive destroyed people driving Mugens in my Sentra or tC. Mugens are capable of some very fast times, but those people who drive them to those times are people who could probably do the same in the Sentra or tC or Cobalt. just use what you like, practice hard, and you can beat those Mugen guys. i see a guy pull out his Mugen, i pull out my Sentra. people dont take enough time with some cars to really see that they are just as or almost as good. so there are a couple for you to look at...the Sentra, the Scion tC, and the Chevy Cobalt. theyre all good B Class cars. i ran 1:55's in my Sentra at Mugello Long, and 1:29's on Laguna with the Sentra and tC...and still have a top 500 time in my Cobalt at Motegi! try em out. theyre good cars.

I have to agree.  I blow Peugeots and Mk2's away alot in D and C class with my "sleepers"  The Saturn Ion and Cobalt in C class are great.  I also like the Hyndai Tuscani, Toyota MR-s and the MAZDA AXELA, yes the Mazda Axela.  Check out my top 200 time on Boomslang with the Axela.  29.365 sitting at 171 at the moment and I ran that time 7 months ago and haven't tried to improve it.  I built the Axela as part of my sleeper challenges.  I picked a track and a car and some folks ran it to see what times it could do.   As you can see, its very capable.

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mastersmite:

i just ran a 37:849 on Maple Valley short, placing 1st, just ahead of a champion in a Mugen Integra.

good, you stuck it to "the man"

I don't race A and B class very much, most people are running  AWD in those classes and its a little annoying. Maybe I should to get better, I am however, well experienced in D and C class.  If anybody would like a project car for those classes let me know. 

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yeah, on short tracks in A-class AWD is the most competitive due to the ease of driving it.  give the setup on the stealth a try and see how it works for you.  It is loud as heck and i love getting right on someone's bumper and holding the car at a high rpm, or bouncing of the rev-limiter with it, it sounds phenomenal.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

I built your 1996 Dodge Stealth and took it out for a test drive on Maple Short.

Nice setup   Without changing any of your tuning specs, I was getting under 37.700, with my best lap coming in at around 37.610...

I made a couple minor tweaks... but, I consider myself a Driver, not a Tuner, so my adjustments may or may not have had a positive effect (my values in Red):

Tires:
F: 28    27
R: 29    28

Gearing:
FD: 3.30
1st: 2.89
2nd: 1.99
3rd: 1.43     1.56
4th:1.19      1.24
5th:1.00
6th:0.85

Ride Height:
F: 5.2       5.0
R: 5.2       5.1

Brake Pressure: 113%    90%    (I consider this purely personal preference... I drive without ABS, and I like a little more travel in the brake pedal / trigger)

I rarely run A-Class, so it wasn't too tough for me to hit my "personal best" --- so my time is visible on the scoreboard. I ended up posting a 37.232 - (which is currently #98).

Now the bad news... since I posted a top-100 time with this car, everyone who complains about people driving "Leaderboard" cars are going to refuse to let me run it in any multi-player races... so, I'll probably try running some hot-laps on a few other tracks, but otherwise it looks like the Stealth will have to just sit in the garage

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

I have a Mitsubishi GTO that I'm testing right now, and this is the kind of thing this car would be good for.

I'll post my times in like 10 minutes if I can yank myself away from the forums.

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I only like blogging if my 360 does it for me!
"It's just road, seat, a**, the end." Jeremy Clarkson

Anybody else giving this car a try?

I shaved a few 1/100ths off of my Maple Short time - down to 37.215 now (currently #92).

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

I anybody's interested, I ran a few Free Run laps on some other tracks, just to see how this Stealth would do:

Mugello Short -         55.873 - #244
Road Atlanta Short -    54.449 - #291
Tsukuba -               54.447 - #868
Tsukuba Short -         40.759 - #239
Motegi West -           37.132 - #684
Motegi East -         1:23.428 - #346
Maple Short Reverse -   37.875 - #255

- Don

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GT: Don Ente



Video - Forza vs. Real World at Road Atlanta

I just ran a 1:26 on Laguna with Don's setup.  I am not the fastest driver and it matches a time I set some time ago in my Exige, so I guess it is achieving the aim.  I drive with ABS on and foun 113% too high on the brake pressure, imo it makes the car lurch forward too much  into the corner.  For my style I set it to 107%.

Very nice car to drive and forgives silly mistakes.  When you first step in it, you have get used to turning in slightly earlier than you think you need to.

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"Never knock on Death's door: ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!"

GT: sk15kev

thanks for giving it a try guys.  I am going insane at home now, it takes me 5 minutes just to load the forums to read this post.  If it weren't for GTA i would probably have shot myself by now... freaking dialup...

anyway, i'll give Don's tweaks a try later and see what i can do with them.

before i went home, i ran the stealth a couple of times and it surprised everyone i lined up against on medium and shorter tracks.  i don't think people will give you a hard time for driving a stealth, not that many people are looking up their cometition on a computer between each race.  I would much rather pop into a room and see a mix of cars, all running fast as opposed to a room full of Mugen's or Fairlady Ver S's.

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first release
GT: MasterSmite0wpi

Donald Ente:

I anybody's interested, I ran a few Free Run laps on some other tracks, just to see how this Stealth would do:

Mugello Short -         55.873 - #244
Road Atlanta Short -    54.449 - #291
Tsukuba -               54.447 - #868
Tsukuba Short -         40.759 - #239
Motegi West -           37.132 - #684
Motegi East -         1:23.428 - #346
Maple Short Reverse -   37.875 - #255

- Don

The Stealth looks nice I see

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Another car i think would do good in S-Class would be the RE-Amemiya (sp?) RX-7 with the 3-rotor engine swap.  It comes out to being slightly worse handling than the Exige, but with a higher top speed. 

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GT - V12 Iridium