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Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

Last post 10-28-2012, 3:45 PM by BRAND1SH. 56 replies.
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  •  10-29-2011, 6:54 AM 4951157

    Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

     

    Tutorial

     

    Drawing using the grid.

     

    For a drawing to look right the artist has to calculate distances and sizes of objects in relation to each other. Some can do this instinctively. For those of us who can't, a grid is useful to help get things in the right place.

     

    A grid is a tool used to transfer a drawing from one place to another, and also can change the size of the drawing. (It's scale).

     

    You draw a grid over your source image and using the points where the picture intersects the grid, transfer it to a grid drawn on your painting surface.

     

    This is how I do it.

     

    Getting organised.

     

    The first thing is to draw a grid onto your computer and save it.

     

    Take a drawing program, ( If you don't have one it's easy to find a basic one on the net,) and draw the grid. It's up to you how large you draw it, sometimes a little trial and error is needed.

     

    Draw the grid the same as the one in the painting editor, that is 4 squares by 4 squares with every fourth line being a different colour. For convenience, I make the grid on my computer cover the size of an A4 piece of paper.

     

    I've drawn my grid with the lines spaced 5mm by 5mm.

     

    Once it's been saved, you don't need to draw one again and it can be used for every painting you wish to do. Simply load up your grid, then import the picture you wish to use and insert it under the grid.

     

    Resize your source image so it's a handy size to work with. As a rule of thumb, the grid on the vinyl editor is 4 large squares high and 10 large squares wide, so this is an ideal size to use for your drawing. You can make your source image bigger if more detail is needed and later I'll give a method of working with a drawing larger than the vinyl editor.

     

    Now crop the drawing with the grid and save using a different file name and print it off. Now you have your subject with a grid printed over it.

     

    Now to the vinyl editor.

     

    The built in grid can't be scaled, so you need to draw your own grid over it. Also, I'm finding that it's too faint to see easily.

     

    Use the community shape 2-5 and put it on the editor. It will be positioned 0.00 x 0.00. Size it so the width is 0.10 and increase the height till it reaches the top and bottom of the editor. Colour it. I prefer red, but whatever works for you. Stamp it and change the colour. I use black. Now move this layer to the right 25 points. It will read y = 0.00 x = 25.00. Stamp it again and move another 25 points. Its now x = 50.00. Stamp it again and move to 75.00. Stamp again and move to 100.00. Change the colour to red again. Stamp this, change the colour back to black and move to 125.00. Repeat this pattern till you get to the edge of the editor. Then go back to the original layer and repeat the whole process, this time going left -25.00, -50.00, -75.00, -100.00, etc till you get to the opposite edge of the editor. All your vertical lines are now drawn.

     

    Go back to the original layer, stamp it and rotate it till it's at 90.00º, increase the length till it reaches both sides of the editor and repeat the previous process, this time moving the y direction in increments of 25.00. Go up then down till the whole grid is drawn. You should use about 70 – 80 layers for this, depending if you go to the extreme edge or not. Group all and save. Grid is a good name.

     

    There are two ways to load this onto the vinyl editor. The first is to go to “ Create Vinyl Group “ and choose “ Load Vinyl Group. “  Don't use this method, it will place the grid in the wrong position. The best method is to go to “ My Vinyl Groups “ and open it from there. This method places your grid over the grid supplied with the editor.

     

    That's it, and because all the laborious work has been completed and saved, you don't have to go through all this every time you start a new painting.

     

    Now you are ready to start your drawing.

     

     

    Transferring your picture onto the Livery Editor.

     

    Work under the grid. To do this apply a shape to the empty layer at the end. Cut it, then paste under the grid by selecting the layer that has the grid group and insert by pressing Y. You don't need to do this every time you make a new layer under the grid. Select a layer above or below where you want to insert the new shape and either paste it or copy and insert it. To change it go to the menu and choose " change vinyl shape ".

     

    Really, every thing's in place now and you can just start drawing. For example, you're drawing an eye. Note the position of the eye elements in relation to the grid that's drawn over them, then draw then on the livery editor in relation to the grid there. eg. note the pupil, and where it intersects grid lines and how large it is in relation to the grid, and with a bit of fiddling round with shapes, sizes and skewing, you can replicate it on the editor.

     

    That's how I did it for years, now, but it can get complicated. Especially when drawing large curves or shapes. They cover large areas of the grid and keeping track of all the intersecting points can stress the brain a bit. Remember, you're not actually drawing a line, you're using the edge of a shape to define the line. It's easy if there are unlimited layers to use, but layer management is a big part of using the editor, so it's much more efficient to use as less layers as possible. Choosing the perfect shape, size and skew, is taxing and all the time you are trying to keep track of all the grid points the shapes have to hit for the drawing to look right.

     

    I have now simplified this process out of the equation, keeping track of all the grid points. I can now use more of my concentration on choosing the best shape for the job at hand.

     

    The method I use is simply, connect the dots. I insert a circle shape into the editor over the grid I've drawn. Then I resize so it's really small, say 0.05 x 0.05 and put it at the start of a line I want to draw. Stamp it and move it to the next place where the drawing intersects the grid, stamp it again and move to the next intersecting point. Continue this till the drawing is mapped out, and it's done. I'm left with a series of dots that define the drawing and now can choose shapes and manipulate them to intersect all the dots. Connect the dots. Easy.


    It's a bit mechanical and repetitive laying down all the dots, but apart from the time it takes it's not hard, and the pay off comes at the end, when the drawing is very quick and accurate.

     

    Resizing the drawing.

     

    Most of the time, the drawing on the livery editor is too small to get everything in place accurately. Make things bigger. Resize.

     

    There's a couple of things to keep track of here. The first is to remember to select everything, including the grid, when changing the size.

     

    The second is to be careful when resizing to choose the right size. Anything you blow up, you eventually want to bring back to the original size to match it back to the grid on the livery editor. Simply ungrouping a group, and then regrouping it, resets the size to 1.00. There are only two sizes to use when increasing the scale of your drawing. That is 200% ( 2.00 ) and 400% ( 4.00 ). Any other size will make it very difficult to set the drawing back to it's original aspect.

     

    When the drawing is increased 200% and worked on, the size is reset to 1.00. To take it back, decrease it to 50% ( 0.50 ). Likewise, when increasing it to 400%, use a reduction of 25% ( 0.25 ) to return it to its original size. It's important to be able to maintain the original size so the drawing can always be positioned on the livery editor grid. This is important when you want to move the drawing in relation to the grid if the drawing is larger than the livery editor page.

     

    Most of the time, I like to work with the drawing sized to 200%. This works well with the grid in the livery editor. At this scale, one square of your drawn grid covers four squares if the editor grid. This means, not only is it a larger size to see easily but the game grid conveniently gives a mid point on each square. Very handy when trying to find a point that is not on the grid line. Which always seems to be at the start or finish of a line, or when a curve takes an unexpected direction mid grid.

     

    Moving a picture in relation to the grid.

     

    If the drawing is larger than the grid then leaving the grid in place and moving the drawing under it is a good solution to keeping the part being worked on in the workable. This is quite often the case when working on a tall drawing.

     

    You still need to keep the drawing in place with reference to its position on the grid, though. To keep it in place with the grid, I place a cross or x onto the drawing lined up with a grid intersection. Select everything, except the grid and move the whole lot into position, making sure the mark lines up in the correct place.

     


  •  10-29-2011, 7:24 AM 4951201 in reply to 4951157

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Any questions, I will be happy to help.
  •  10-29-2011, 7:46 AM 4951244 in reply to 4951201

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Good tutorial. I hope the moderator will make this a sticky!
  •  10-29-2011, 7:52 AM 4951256 in reply to 4951157

    • Hieronymus1967 is not online. Last active: 05-24-2013, 6:39 PM
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    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    A sticky is indeed in order.  

     

    Excellent job thus far Glassman!

     

     





    SDM - Tuned Paintings, Painted Tunings, Philosophers Stones, and Squaring the Circle in non-Euclidean space

    When you're at the bottom of the leaderboards, everyone is your rival.

  •  10-29-2011, 9:38 AM 4951486 in reply to 4951256

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    awesome tutorial Glass,

    i was always wondering how you get your cartoon paints so accurate. thanks for sharing your way of painting. if i paint a cartoon i will try out the way you do things. 

    Thanks again Tim



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  •  10-29-2011, 9:56 AM 4951527 in reply to 4951486

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Good stuff mate!

    Chels 


  •  10-29-2011, 11:22 AM 4951712 in reply to 4951157

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Great tut, i use the grid in Photoshop, having my laptop in front of me while i'm painting... Doing that i can match my onscreen colours, with the onscreen colours, which is easier then trying to match to a printed source. 

    I really like seeing these threads pop up, really giving back to the community guys!! Awesome! 


  •  10-29-2011, 5:52 PM 4953072 in reply to 4951157

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Favorited. Awesome tip! This will possibly make my designs easier to do, as I have something in mind for my favorite car. Mostly, I still encounter issues with shading, but I hope to get better! Any tips for this?


    Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. - Friedrich Nietzsche
  •  10-30-2011, 12:34 AM 4954749 in reply to 4953072

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    greyfox82092:
    Favorited. Awesome tip! This will possibly make my designs easier to do, as I have something in mind for my favorite car. Mostly, I still encounter issues with shading, but I hope to get better! Any tips for this?

    Yes. First thing is have a good read of the tutorial by QK TimmyFlush, here  He has done an excellent job of showing shading being applied to a drawing.

    The second thing is make use of the gradients. They are perfect for shading as they have soft edges. Try them all to see what effects you can get from them. Explore the two pages at the front of the shapes selection, the community shapes. There are some excellent new gradients there.

    Third; In Forza 4, I rarely turn the transparency down to blend in gradients, instead I use the colour editor to finely adjust colour tones between layers to blend the shading.

    Forth; Where gradients produce hard edges. mask them using the circle gradients. 


  •  10-30-2011, 12:43 AM 4954765 in reply to 4951256

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Hieronymus1967:

    A sticky is indeed in order.  

     

    Excellent job thus far Glassman!

     

     

    Thank you for that Hieronymus.

    I get so much out of this game and am just pleased to have the opportunity to be part of the community by giving something back in my own small way.


  •  10-30-2011, 1:07 AM 4954823 in reply to 4951486

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    QK TimmyFlush:

    awesome tutorial Glass,

    i was always wondering how you get your cartoon paints so accurate. thanks for sharing your way of painting. if i paint a cartoon i will try out the way you do things. 

    Thanks again Tim

    Thanks, Tim.

    I don't just use this type of grid for cartoons, I use it for everything. I think we both have the same sort of problem with a grid...they can get too complicated to be workable at times.

    Your solution is to draw a simplified grid, customised to your particular drawing, and my solution is to find a way to simplify the standard grid.

    Two different approaches to the same dilemma, which is really a good thing showing there is no right or wrong way to approach painting.


  •  10-30-2011, 1:14 AM 4954851 in reply to 4951712

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    SnakeEyes Friex:

    Great tut, i use the grid in Photoshop, having my laptop in front of me while i'm painting... Doing that i can match my onscreen colours, with the onscreen colours, which is easier then trying to match to a printed source. 

    I really like seeing these threads pop up, really giving back to the community guys!! Awesome! 

    Good tip, thanks Snake Eyes. The printed image always seems to be a different colour, and we tend to paint what we see.

    Thanks for your input. I always enjoy your work ( in fact picked up Harlequin the other day ) and am always amazed at how fast you produce a car.


  •  10-30-2011, 12:29 PM 4956444 in reply to 4954851

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Hi glassman, i have enjoyed this tutorial that you have put up and am glad it is being received by the community very well, i also view the advanced and other paint threads and am glad to see many artists share their experiences. I would like to expand and provide other artists a few other ideas which i feel are great tools and techniques for people to use and is information i share with my friends all the time.

     My path and obsession to recreate an image led me down the same road, i utilise the grid and also use at times the same dot technique you do. So first, the way i make my grids (after many different trials) is i google an image of the same size grid as the editor, i would print that onto paper, then i would put that paper back in the printer and do a very light fast draft print of my source image over the top. It is a quick way to not need to create your own grid as in the beginning even creating just the grid can be daunting.

    The way i do the dot method you use is the same, with my "gridded" source image in hand, i would go back and forth and place dots, mainly where the key proportions needed to be and a lot of the time to aid me in working out how deep or shallow a curve would be.

    Many hours of these techniques (i clock somewhere over the 300 hours in the editor on pure shape manipulation alone) made me discover a few other ways to get these poiints of interest done much faster and accurately.

    In a basic sense, one of the strongest tools i can recommend to painters wanting to recreate a source is to sticky tape your source image to the screen and trace underneath it. When describing this to others, it does not sound magical or very creative but there can be a huge amount of creative freedom in this technique because how far and into what detail you "trace" an image is up to the artist creating it. I will share some of the best ways to do this that i have learnt.

    Now, with sticky taping a source to a screen. For images that are simple and of one or two colours, you print it out in fast draft (cheaper to print), edit the image to be either in only light colours or all dark colours (one or the other) because if it is only light colours, you can apply dark shapes in the editor that you can see through the paper, with dark images, you can see light shapes underneath (i hope that doesnt confuse anyone).

    For images that are complex and/or complex in the colour scheme, how you tackle those is up to your imagination. You can print it out in smaller section, you can edit the image to be simpler on pc before hand to then reprint, though the easiest way if not wanting to modify your source, is simply to create the dot scheme (or similar that highlights points of interest) described in glassmans original post. Only trace some parts, the key features you need or have trouble doing by eye. What you get left with, will look rough, or be a dotty mess but that is when you take the source guide off, zoom in and let your creativity flow in turning it into something you like, having a very strong guide to where everything needs to be.

    My personal preference for anything complex using a taped guide, is to draw it first by hand and on pc. I use both a digital pen and a paint editing program (paint.net i use, its free as well) and i draw how i want it to look. In doing this, i can simplify areas i know i have trouble with and it also gives me a much better idea (having hand drawn the shapes) how i will transfer the image into the forza editor.

    With the image i have drawn in the pc, i do two prints, the first i print uncoloured in only black ink, this is the main one i use to trace over to get it into the editor. The second is a coloured version, this one i use as my colour guide that i only put near the screen when i need to colour match sections. Getting to this stage feels great, as the guide i am using at this point is something i have drawn by hand and is in a format that is very easy to reproduce in the editor.

    As long as the source you have printed is in one colour, regular a4 paper should do ok (you will see your shapes underneath). This way, your source image should only cost about a cent to have the guide. You can go all out and trace it by hand on tracing paper and then tape tracing paper to the screen, it does make things easier but then your image guides start to sit around 20 or 30 cents a page.

    I hope this post doesnt look too long (if you want me to shorten it glassman i can edit it) and i have described some more information on the techniques i use that can help other artists. Esentially, these are all methods to recreate,copy,trace a source. However you want to call it, these techniques help, they can be very powerful and what you do with them as an artist is up to you.

     I'd like to also note, that these source guides do open up a lot of creativity. If you try tracing something complex, sure you can get it perfect, if you want to spend 30 hours to trace a small vinyl that is. I can guarantee after trying that depth of detail once, your imagination and creativity will take over and you will only use it as intended, a guide to help you get the proportions and curves a bit more acurate. That way you can use that 30 hours to work on your layouts instead haha.

    Anyways, good luck to all and hope to chat to some of you someday in a race with our favourite paints to show off.

  •  10-30-2011, 2:01 PM 4956727 in reply to 4951157

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Glass, brilliant tutorial & thanx for taking the time once again Beer

    The dot method is new to me, makes sense though & i'll have to give it a try. . . only for photoreal as i'm confident enough with cartoon images to do them by eye. I like the tips on resizing  to 200 or 400% & also placing an X to keep the grid position isn't something i would've thought of. Oh yeah, kudos on the tip about loading the grid from My Vinyl Groups rather than Create Vinyl Group - i had to check, LoL  Embarrassed

     

    GlassMan NZ:
     

    Use the community shape 2-5 and put it on the editor. It will be positioned 0.00 x 0.00. Size it so the width is 10.0

     

    I'm probably going to embarrass myself here but this is the only thing i didn't quite understand. . . to get my grid lines looking anywhere near yours i used x = 0.25  Feel free to point out any glaring mistake i might've made (i'm sure i used the correct shape though, LoL) i'm going to have to dig out my old printer at some point & see if i can put yours & Timmy's advice to good use.

    Smile

     



    RDM = Legend F A C T !
  •  10-30-2011, 7:50 PM 4957859 in reply to 4956444

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    This makes things much easier for a complete novice like myself.  Thank you!  Quick question though... how do you resize the drawing/zoom in to 200% or so like you were saying?  And what is the max size you can make a vinyl?  Is it better to make it as large as possible, then shrink it when you add to the car, etc?  I'm just wondering if what your talking about is making the image larger against a smaller grid so you can get more detail or what.  Sorry, like I said... Im a complete noob.  (This is actually the first picture I've attemped)
  •  10-31-2011, 3:08 AM 4958836 in reply to 4956444

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    skilled inc.

    First; please don't shorten your post. In fact, thank you for taking the time to write out such a detailed description of your methods. As I posted before, there is no right way or wrong way to paint on Forza, and what matters is what works for you, The whole idea of a tutorial is to offer people who are interested in learning, as many options as possible, and I'm sure every single painter on these forums does things differently. Either slightly or completely.

    On the light side, my TV cost about $1,000, and my wife visibly pales every time the grandkids come round and put their sticky little fingers on the screen. In the interest of our marriage, I don't think it would be wise for me to be sticking bits of tape on it. lol. But I have heard that that method works very well.


  •  10-31-2011, 4:28 AM 4958921 in reply to 4956727

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    MIDNYTE DUBH:

    Glass, brilliant tutorial & thanx for taking the time once again Beer

    The dot method is new to me, makes sense though & i'll have to give it a try. . . only for photoreal as i'm confident enough with cartoon images to do them by eye. I like the tips on resizing  to 200 or 400% & also placing an X to keep the grid position isn't something i would've thought of. Oh yeah, kudos on the tip about loading the grid from My Vinyl Groups rather than Create Vinyl Group - i had to check, LoL  Embarrassed

     

    GlassMan NZ:
     

    Use the community shape 2-5 and put it on the editor. It will be positioned 0.00 x 0.00. Size it so the width is 10.0

     

    I'm probably going to embarrass myself here but this is the only thing i didn't quite understand. . . to get my grid lines looking anywhere near yours i used x = 0.25  Feel free to point out any glaring mistake i might've made (i'm sure i used the correct shape though, LoL) i'm going to have to dig out my old printer at some point & see if i can put yours & Timmy's advice to good use.

    Smile

     

    Sorry, that's a typo on my side. The width should be x = 0.10.

    A note on that; that's probably the minimum width. You can make it thicker and that's why 0.25 works for you. If the width is set below 0.10, the completed grid tends to disappear while a shape is moved over the editor fast using the stick. It re appears when you stop moving. but you're a bit blind till you stop, making achieving the mark a hit or miss affair. The grid doesn't disappear when moving a shape using the directional pad, but that's too slow for larger distances.

    Hope that helps. Let me know if it's still as clear as mud. lol.

    Oh yeah, don't forget. You don't really need a printer. As with Timmy, a set square and pencil will do the same job, just a bit slower.


  •  10-31-2011, 5:02 AM 4958999 in reply to 4957859

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    CPT JPMorgan:
    This makes things much easier for a complete novice like myself.  Thank you!  Quick question though... how do you resize the drawing/zoom in to 200% or so like you were saying?  And what is the max size you can make a vinyl?  Is it better to make it as large as possible, then shrink it when you add to the car, etc?  I'm just wondering if what your talking about is making the image larger against a smaller grid so you can get more detail or what.  Sorry, like I said... Im a complete noob.  (This is actually the first picture I've attemped)

    To zoom in 200%, go to 'edit selected layers' by choosing a layer and pressing 'A'. Choose 'highlight all layers. Go back to 'edit selected layers' again and choose 'position highlighted layers'. Move over to the 'size' menu. The size will / should read 1.00. Increase it to 2.00 for a zoom of 200% and 4.00 for a zoom pf 400%.

    So, when you're zooming in, keep the grid with the drawing. Everything will expand and that keeps the ratios together.

    The lager your drawing is on the editor, the more accurate your layers will line up.

    Size = 4.00 is really the largest you need and anything above that makes shrinking the drawing back to the size editor grid almost impossible, unless you're a scientist working on the Hedron Accelerator.

    Size = 2.00 is the handiest for me.

    Note; It's very easy to reset the size of groups. Simply un grouping a group, then re grouping it will re set the size to 1.00. When you are working on a drawing that's been zoomed 200% (size 2.00), the size will be re set to 1.00 when you highlight all layers. To bring it back to original size it needs to be resized to size = 0.50.

    It's OK to save a drawing at this size, as it's the default size on the editor. When applied to a car, the vinyl group will have to be reduced. If you need it small on the car, it might be better to do the final save at size = 0.50. That way you have more control when getting down to small sizes on the car. The smaller a vinyl group on the car, the less definition it will have.

     


  •  10-31-2011, 3:08 PM 4960570 in reply to 4958999

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    Thanks!  That clears it up a bit more.  I think that was actually explained before, but it just didnt make sense at the time, lol.  Its still taking me forever to find the right pieces, and I'm probably using WAYYY more layers than a pro would, but I am pretty happy with the outcome so far.  Thanks everyone!
  •  11-04-2011, 11:39 AM 4973751 in reply to 4960570

    Re: Tutorial: Using a Grid: Practical Methods. ( Basic )

    OK, I think I am over examining this, or something.

     

    I have been trying to do a design for my Fairlady, but I am not sure if I have done this right.

    I am also a perfectionist, and want it to look right the first time. If I PM you the source pic GlassMan, could you help me out? I am using Photoshop, CS5 if that helps.



    Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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