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FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

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  •  06-10-2007, 8:44 PM 242646

    Automobile [au] FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

     

    Forza Motorsports 2
    Suspension Setup Calculator
    Version 3
    by Feuerdog

    INTRO - The new physics modeling of FM2 has changed the realism and overall feel from FM1. In order to take advantages of the new physics, a new guide with new calculations needed to be written. Improvements have been made in the guide, just as in the sim. Hopefully these new suspension setup calculations will provide you with a car that handles better, is easier to drive, and faster too. Enjoy!

    PURPOSE - Why use this calculator?
    -
    What it might do you for you....
    - help drivers and tuners by giving them a way to tune or retune their own cars without having to understand all the definitions and relationships within a suspension setup.
    - To possibly improve the performance of a car that is troublesome to drive and/or tune.
    -
    To provide an easy way to establish a baseline tune from which more advanced tuning can be done.

    - What it won't do for you...
    - It is not intended to explain why or how everything works, independently or as a whole, but it might provide some useful information.
    - No two cars, drivers, tracks, or setups will act exactly the same. Your results will be subjective and will vary.

    - These calculations will not achieve a perfect tune, but they may be an improvement, or at least an alternative.
    -
    This is NOT an ultimate setup guide. You can improve these tunes further. I do.

    MY DRIVING STYLE - Do we drive the same way?
    The same tune that works for one driver doesn't always work well for other drivers. In order for you to understand why the tune from this guide will handle the way it does, it helps to understand the way that I drive and what characteristics I look for.

    - I use a standard controller(sometimes the wheel and pedals), with trigger brake, trigger throttle, and stick for steering.
    - No assists usually except for ABS. In car view. Auto transmission.
    - I memorize physical objects like signs, walls, barriers, and curbs to mark where my braking and turn-in points are.
    - I like my tunes to be stable, balanced, and easy to drive.
    - I like moderate spring, stiff damper setups.
    - I tend to brake hard and straight at first, and then transition into a trail-braking turn-in. I then transition into full acceleration from apex to exit.
    - I prefer on-throttle, and throttle lift oversteer characteristics.
    - I usually use the same tune for every track, but there are always exceptions.
    - I am not the greatest driver, but I manage to have fun.

    REALISM - Keeping it real.
    I have tried to tune my cars based, for the most part, on reality. If the physics of Forza are realistic, then realistic values should work in the sim, and they do, which is a good thing. The Turn 10 team did very well. Tuning and testing in a realistic way adds to the enjoyment of the whole simulation for me. Therefore, I have gone to some lengths to keep my tuning based on "real world" values and ratios. I have actually spent a lot of time, and some money, to learn more about suspension dynamics and racing car tuning in general. In the end it's all about fun. If this calculator can provide you with a car that is more fun and easier to drive then my work here is done.



    SUSPENSION SETUP CALCULATOR
    1. Before you begin.
    2. Tires
    - Pressure
    3. Alignments
    - Camber
    - Toe
    - Caster

    4. Springs, Dampers, and Antiroll Bars
    - Springs
    - Dampers
    - Antiroll Bars

    5. Brakes
    - Force
    - Bias

    6. Differentials
    - FWD
    - RWD
    - AWD

    7. Aerodynamics
    - Camber
    - Springs
    - Brake bias



    1. BEFORE YOU BEGIN -
    1.1 - You need to have....
    a. A basic calculator, a pencil, and something to write on.
    b. A car with a
    Race suspension, Race brakes, Race Springs and Dampers, and a Sport or Race Differential.

    1.2 - You need to know....
    a. The
    weight of the car, and what the weight distribution values are for front and rear. This vehicle information is found in the game itself.
    b.
    Any changes to the weight of the vehicle will mean you have to recalculate the settings!
    c. These settings assume the use of ABS, but with NO TCS, and NO STM! There is a good chance your car won't handle very well with these assists enabled when using these calculations.
    d. A few abbreviations:
    AWD = All wheel drive
    FWD = Front wheel drive
    RWD = Rear wheel drive

    FF = Front engine, Front wheel drive
    FR = Front engine, Rear wheel drive
    FA = Front engine, All wheel drive
    MR = Mid engine, Rear wheel drive
    MA = Mid engine, All wheel drive
    RR = Rear engine, Rear wheel drive
    RA = Rear engine, All wheel drive

    Understeer - the car doesn't turn easily
    Oversteer - the car turns too easily


    2. TIRES -
    2.1. Set Tire pressures -
    a. Set all tires to 29psi

    b. Adjust tire pressure for best operating pressures -
    1. Free Run five or more laps of Tsukuba.
    2. Watch the telemetry screen for tire pressures.
    3. Note the pressure increase of the left side tires from lap one to lap five.
    4. Adjust the tire pressures so that the tire heats "up" into its best operating pressure and/or temperature.

    Advanced Tire Size tuning -
    a. For cars with larger rear tires than front tires, add -1% brake bias and add .1 to front toe.

    Advanced Tire Temperature tuning -
    a. If single tire temperature differences exceed 10 degrees, then increase antiroll bar settings and retest.

    Note: There is a relationship between the vehicles weight, aerodynamic downforce, and the tires ability to warm and cool to optimal operating pressures. Lighter cars may benefit from lower pressures, and high downforce or heavyweight cars may require higher than normal pressures.


    3. ALIGNMENTS -
    3.1. Set Camber -
    a. Set camber to -.8 Front/-.8 Rear

    Advanced Tuning - Add or remove camber to prevent uneven heating.


    3.2. Set Toe -

    FF = .1 front/.1 rear
    FR = .0 front/-.2 rear
    FA = .1 front/.1 rear
    MR = 0 front/-.1 rear
    MA = .1 front/0 rear
    RR = 0 front/-.2 rear
    RA = 0 front/-.1 rear

    Advanced Tuning - Increase front positive toe to improve turn-in response, decrease to improve stability. Increase rear negative toe to improve rear stability, decrease to reduce understeer.


    3.3. Set Caster -
    - Set caster to 5.5

    Notes: I don't want to get into the details of caster tuning, but it is very closely related to front camber settings, and it shouldn't be adjusted out of the 5.6~6.0 range while used with the other settings. 5.5 caster adds approx. 3 degrees of dynamic camber to the front wheels at full steering lock.


    4. SPRINGS, DAMPERS, and ANTIROLL BARS -
    4.1. Find the weight multiplier -
    a. Get the
    weight of the car from the garage screen.
    b. Subtract 300 from vehicle weight and multiply by .34
    c. This is your
    weight multiplier - write this number down.
    Example FF car: (2600 lbs - 300) x .34 = 782

    Advanced Tuning -
    - For slightly stiffer suspension add 50 to this result.
    - For very stiff suspension add 100 to this result.
    - For slightly softer suspension subtract 50 from this result.
    - For very soft suspension subtract 100 from this result.


    4.2. Find the modified weight distribution -
    a. Get the weight distribution values for the car.
    Example FF car: 57% front/43% rear

    b. Calculate the cars modified weight distribution values by altering the stock weight distribution using the following table:

    FF = subtract 8% from the front, and add 8% to the rear.
    FR = add 8% to the front, and subtract 8% from the rear.
    FA = subtract 5% from the front, and add 5% to the rear.
    MR = add 2% to the front, and subtract 2% from the rear.
    MA = add 2% to the front, and subtract 2% from the rear.
    RR = add 2% to the front, and subtract 2% from the rear.
    RA = add 1% to the front, and subtract 1% from the rear.

    Example FF car: 57% front (-8%)/43% rear (+8%) = 49% front/51% rear

    c. These modified percentages are your modified weight distribution - write this number down.

    4.3. Find the Spring value -
    a.
    Weight multiplier x modified weight distribution = Spring value - enter these settings.
    Example FF car:
    - 782(weight modifier) x .49(49% modified front weight distribution) = 383 Front Springs
    - 782(weight modifier) x .51(51% modified rear weight distribution) = 398 Rear Springs


    Advanced Tuning - You may need to adjust your ride height. Lower is better, but too low may cause excessive bottoming out. Adjust as needed.


    4.4. - Find the damper Bump Stiffness -
    a. (
    Spring value + 200) x .011 = Bump Stiffness - enter these settings.
    Example FF car:
    - (383 front springs + 200) x .011 = 6.4 front Bump Stiffness
    - (398 rear springs + 200) x .011 = 6.5 rear Bump Stiffness

    Advanced Tuning - For stiffer dampers multiply by .012, for softer dampers multiply by .010


    4.5 - Find the damper Rebound Stiffness -
    a. Get the Bump Stiffness values for the car.
    Example FF car:
    - 6.4 front Bump Stiffness
    - 6.5 rear Bump Stiffness

    b. Calculate the cars Rebound Stiffness values with the following table:

    FF - Front Bump stiffness x 1.4 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    FF - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.1 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    FR - Front Bump stiffness x 1.1 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    FR - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.4 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    FA - Front Bump stiffness x 1.3 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    FA - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.1 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    MR - Front Bump stiffness x 1.3 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    MR - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.3 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    MA - Front Bump stiffness x 1.4 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    MA - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.1 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    RR - Front Bump stiffness x 1.1 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    RR - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.3 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    RA - Front Bump stiffness x 1.3 = Front Rebound Stiffness
    RA - Rear Bump stiffness x 1.2 = Rear Rebound Stiffness

    Example FF car:
    - 6.4(front bump stiffness) x 1.4 = 8.9 front Rebound Stiffness
    - 6.5(rear bump stiffness) x 1.1 = 7.1 rear Rebound Stiffness

    Advanced Tuning -
    - Increase corner entry oversteer OR Decrease corner entry understeer = Subtract .1 from the rear Rebound Stiffness multiplier, and recalculate.
    - Increase corner exit oversteer OR Decrease corner exit understeer = Add .1 to the front Rebound Stiffness multiplier, and recalculate.

    - Increase corner entry understeer OR Decrease corner entry oversteer = Add .1 to the rear Rebound Stiffness multiplier, and recalculate.
    - Increase corner exit understeer OR Decrease corner exit oversteer = Subtract .1 from the front Rebound Stiffness multiplier, and recalculate.



    4.6. Find the Antiroll Bar settings -
    a.
    Weight distribution x 24 = AntiRoll Bar settings - enter these settings.
    Example FF car:
    - .57(front weight distribution) x 24 = 13.6 front AntiRoll bar
    - .43(rear weight distribution) x 24 = 10.3 rear Antiroll bar

    Advanced Tuning -
    - For slightly stiffer antiroll bars change multiplier to 33
    - For very stiff antiroll bars change multiplier to 44, and decrease caster to 5.4
    - For slightly softer antiroll bars change multiplier to 17
    - For very soft antiroll bars change multiplier to 12, and increase caster to 5.6



    5. BRAKES -
    5.1. Set Brake Force -
    - Set brake force to 110% with ABS, or 90% without ABS.

    5.2. Set Brake Balance -
    - Set brake balance to 47% front

    Advanced Tuning -
    - If rear tires are at least 30mm wider than front tires subtract 1% from brake balance.
    - Adjust force in +/-5% increments for best feel, or benchmark performance.
    - Adjust balance in +/-2% increments for best feel, or benchmark performance.
    - Use friction telemetry screen to determine which wheels are losing traction first and adjust balance accordingly.


    6. DIFFERENTIALS -
    - FWD = 35% Accel./0% Decel.

    - RWD = 60% Accel./50% Decel.

    - AWD Front = 35% Accel./0% Decel.
    - AWD Rear = 80% Accel./70% Decel.
    - AWD Split = 25% Front/75% Rear

    Note: Gearing, power, and torque won't directly how the diff. work but they will change the feel of it's effects. Keep this in mind while tuning.
    Sport differentials are adjustable in accel. only.

    Advanced Tuning -
    Accelerating oversteer?
    - Adjust rear diff. = -5% Accel.

    Accelerating understeer?
    - Adjust front diff. = -5% Accel.

    Braking oversteer?
    - Adjust diff. = +5% front Decel. OR -5% rear Decel.

    Braking understeer?
    - Adjust front diff. = -5% Decel. OR +5% rear Decel.



    7. AERODYNAMICS(Optional adjustments)-
    7.1. Adjust camber based on aerodynamic downforce -
    - Add +.1 camber per 100lbs downforce
    Example R4 car: 150lbs front/300lbs rear
    (150lbs front = +.1) = (+1) + (-.8 camber) = -.7 front camber
    (320lbs rear = +.3) = (+.3) + (-.8 camber) = -.5 rear camber



    7.2 . Adjust spring value for aerodynamic downforce -
    - (Downforce x .15) + Spring value = Adjusted Spring value
    Example FF car: 110lbs front/25lbs rear
    (110lbs front x .15) = 16 + 383 = 399 front springs
    (25lbs rear x .15) = 3 + 398 = 401 rear springs
    Note: Do NOT recalculate damper settings after this spring adjustment is made.

    Advanced Tuning - For lower compensation multiply by .1, for higher compensation multiply by .2



    7.3. Adjust brake bias based on aerodynamic downforce -
    a. Subtract front downforce from rear downforce.
    Example FR car: 80lbs front/190lbs rear
    190lbs rear - 80lbs front = 110lbs positive(rear bias) DF difference


    b. Adjust brake bias using the following:
    - For every full 100lbs of negative(front bias) adjust brake bias by +1%
    - For every full 100lbs of positive(rear bias) adjust brake bias by -1%
    Example FR car with 110lbs positive(rear bias) DF difference:
    110lbs(positive) = Brake bias 47% - 1% = 46% front brake bias

     

    Automatic calculators -
    It seems there are some fans of my calculator who are just as dedicated as I am to having fun and making life easier.  Below is a selection of spreadsheet and webpage calculators that have been made using the calculations above.  These fantastic tools take all the hassle out of the calculator and puit it in an easy to use format, enjoy!

    If there are corrections or issues with these calculators, please contact thier owners.  I can't be responsible for thier accuracy.

    Automatic calculators - Webpages and Excel spreadsheets

    Webpage V2 calculator with metric conversion and Porsche specific tweaks by Croisened -
    http://www.croisened.com

    Webpage V2 calculator with metric converstions by iammatt00 -
    http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.comnew features coming soon

    Webpage V2 calculator by redshirt1701 -
    http://www.redshirt1701.com/Forza2/suspensioninput.cfm

    Flash V2 calculator with metric conversion by qbix -
    http://www.ondaground.net/flash/fm2
    (Note: flash file can be downloaded and run locally)

    Excel spreadsheet V2 calculator with metric conversion by Shemwhistler -
    http://tinyurl.com/3blafu" target="_blank" title="http://tinyurl.com/3blafu">http://tinyurl.com/3blafu
    Updated 7-30-07

    Excel spreadsheet by kaedo/revan
    http://revan.us/feuerdog-Forza2_suspension_tuning-Kaedo.xls

    Porsche (P Cars) specific Version based on V2 by Carn
    http://www.recoil.co.za/stuff/fm2/pcalc_v1.0.xls

    Excel spreadsheet by Aurien http://www.hrolt.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1&d=1197930993
    Updated 1-2-08


    FM3 Suspension Calculator
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

    iPhone Suspension Calculator
    http://forzatune.com/

    Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
    http://diy-racetuning.net/
  •  06-10-2007, 11:37 PM 243519 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Sounds like this could use a spreadsheet to ease all the calculations.
  •  06-10-2007, 11:43 PM 243557 in reply to 243519

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    i'll try out your calculations soon. Nice find btw, I was looking for something like this even though I tune some of my cars.
  •  06-10-2007, 11:55 PM 243631 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    I'm gonna try this out tonight, I'm really looking forward to see how my Lamborghini Murcielago handles this tune... Will post up later on tonight...


  •  06-11-2007, 12:05 AM 243674 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    I've been using this little setup guide you have here when you were still tweaking the formulas.  I'm debating coding a PHP/MySQL app for this calculator to make it a quick process where the user only has to plug a few numbers in.  Might there be any interest for such a Calculator?

    Edit: Ok, Web Based calculator is Done!!!! You can use it here:
    Web Based Suspension Setup Calculator
    http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.com/

    Suspension Calculator Based on feuerdog's guide: (Now Does Metric!)
    http://fm2calc.ruinedmylife.com
  •  06-11-2007, 12:16 AM 243739 in reply to 243557

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    I'm gonna attempt to make up a spreadsheet, at least for personal usage. I'll let you know if it turns out well.
  •  06-11-2007, 12:42 AM 243815 in reply to 243674

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    iammatt00:
    I've been using this little setup guide you have here when you were still tweaking the formulas.  I'm debating coding a PHP/MySQL app for this calculator to make it a quick process where the user only has to plug a few numbers in.  Might there be any interest for such a Calculator?
    I would surely enjoy anything that causes me to have less math in my life.  I am in school at ITT for electrical engineering, studying for my MECP advanced certification, and worst of all I have run a cash register at work that is broken and does not give me the change amount.  Needless to say, doing math for fun is not something I am keen on but I will if it makes me faster.
    Keep it clean
  •  06-11-2007, 3:16 AM 244317 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    I used this to tune 2 Class A, 1 Class C and 1 Class B Car. FF RF and MF worked great, thanks!

    Online Forza 2 Suspension Calculator
    http://www.redshirt1701.com/Forza2/suspensioninput.cfm
    Based on Suspension Guide by Feuerdog
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/1/256899/ShowThread.aspx
  •  06-11-2007, 4:42 AM 244519 in reply to 244317

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Pinned for a week, I'll pin it longer if people show interest
    Drows24: Come on, you read ''Forza hidden secret''. You where waiting for what ? Subliminal message in the paint shop ?
  •  06-11-2007, 5:03 AM 244576 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    i'm gonna place my laptop right in front of me when tuning my first car, cause a real noob in tuning like me even understands this one!!!!!!!

    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU i was looking for such easy explenation for a long time!!!! and i will be testing this for you at every car i tune!!!! I'm strapped to bed for over six weeks (due to an accident) so i've got plenty of time!!!!

    CAN ANYONE MAKE THIS A STICKY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drows PLEASE?????


    [Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]
  •  06-11-2007, 5:11 AM 244607 in reply to 244576

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Kain_NL:

    i'm gonna place my laptop right in front of me when tuning my first car, cause a real noob in tuning like me even understands this one!!!!!!!


    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU i was looking for such easy explenation for a long time!!!! and i will be testing this for you at every car i tune!!!! I'm strapped to bed for over six weeks (due to an accident) so i've got plenty of time!!!!


    CAN ANYONE MAKE THIS A STICKY?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drows PLEASE?????



    Look at the post above your Indifferent [:|]
    Drows24: Come on, you read ''Forza hidden secret''. You where waiting for what ? Subliminal message in the paint shop ?
  •  06-11-2007, 5:40 AM 244669 in reply to 244607

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Wow.....this is truely great stuff, Drows, I think this'll last a tad longer than a week ;)

    Bookmarked!!!


    If you cant drive clean, dont drive at all.
  •  06-11-2007, 5:48 AM 244683 in reply to 244669

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    UHMMMM Embarrassed [:$] sorry drows just woke up!!!! i started thinking about you saying its been pinned a couple of minutes later hahaha, lol

    but indeed a week is WAYYYY too short


    [Mod edit: Sig size exceeds forum limits, 480x115 pixels max - D]
  •  06-11-2007, 6:11 AM 244733 in reply to 244683

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

     Glad to see a new version. You are a great help to us know nothings. I'm gonna try these out and see what happens. I like the info about how to adjust things for oversteer and understeer. How much stock should I put in the benchmarking? Also, any advice on gearing? I have been just moving the final drive until I get my best 0-100 time basically. Also, could we get a brief explination of what sitffer or softer setups do for springs, dampers, and roll bars?
  •  06-11-2007, 8:10 AM 245066 in reply to 244733

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Hi

    I like the list but it is far to simplistic,  You diff settings are a bit vague, the settings should depend on the power being sent to the wheels and this should determine the value of diff lock along with the amount of wheel spin. But the list seems to be a black and white list of the right way, when infact the setting and far more complex.  The stock tires come with 30 psi as standard and you think 29psi is correct for the front on a FWD car?  Then simply reverse the value for the RWD cars? and thats it!  The camber settings are .1 degree from fully upright, is that really the best?  Have i missed something or should this be dependant on the suspension travel and rebound. You wouldn't be able to see .1 degree of camber angle!  Next time you watch Touring cars on TV look at the top of the tires, you can visibly see the camber angle. Moving onto your brake settings which are 46%, 47%, 48% .  Only 1% separates all cars in the game?  I don't really believe thats correct.  I'm not on here to simply contradict your views, but this is a sticky thread which people will read and try to copy and while I can see the effort you put in, I don't believe it is completely accurate.

     

    But i got to hand it to you for typing it all out.Smile [:)]




  •  06-11-2007, 9:08 AM 245285 in reply to 245066

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Unkle:

    Hi

    I like the list but it is far to simplistic,  You diff settings are a bit vague, the settings should depend on the power being sent to the wheels and this should determine the value of diff lock along with the amount of wheel spin. But the list seems to be a black and white list of the right way, when infact the setting and far more complex.  The stock tires come with 30 psi as standard and you think 29psi is correct for the front on a FWD car?  Then simply reverse the value for the RWD cars? and thats it!  The camber settings are .1 degree from fully upright, is that really the best?  Have i missed something or should this be dependant on the suspension travel and rebound. You wouldn't be able to see .1 degree of camber angle!  Next time you watch Touring cars on TV look at the top of the tires, you can visibly see the camber angle. Moving onto your brake settings which are 46%, 47%, 48% .  Only 1% separates all cars in the game?  I don't really believe thats correct.  I'm not on here to simply contradict your views, but this is a sticky thread which people will read and try to copy and while I can see the effort you put in, I don't believe it is completely accurate.

     

    But i got to hand it to you for typing it all out.Smile [:)]



    Not completly accurate, but its accurate enough for the beginner. If you know enough about suspension you dont need this. So if you have something to complain about, just do one that is better.
    Drows24: Come on, you read ''Forza hidden secret''. You where waiting for what ? Subliminal message in the paint shop ?
  •  06-11-2007, 9:51 AM 245448 in reply to 245066

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Unkle:

    Hi

    I like the list but it is far to simplistic,  You diff settings are a bit vague, the settings should depend on the power being sent to the wheels and this should determine the value of diff lock along with the amount of wheel spin. But the list seems to be a black and white list of the right way, when infact the setting and far more complex.  

    I agree wholeheartedly.  But like many of the settings I use, there needs to be a starting point from which to refine, and it has to be simple and easy to use.  For many people this calculator is far too complex mto bother with,.....for others, like me and you, it's isn't deep enough to truely find a specific optimal tune.  I had to keep it basic.

    The stock tires come with 30 psi as standard and you think 29psi is correct for the front on a FWD car?  Then simply reverse the value for the RWD cars? and thats it!  

    No I don't.  I usually run around 40psi in my Falken Azenis RT-615's in my real world mk5 GTI when I race, but this is just a game.  Accordng to the Prima FM2 guide all tires will acheive optimum trcation at 32psi.  The settings in this guide are based on that statement,.....at least for now.  Until I have more time to test and verify this statement, starting pressures of around 28-30psi are more than adequate for this generic calculator.  Actually tire tuning in FM2 is VERY complex because of all the variety of weights, inertias, tire dimensions and compounds, and vehicle weight distributions.

    The camber settings are .1 degree from fully upright, is that really the best?

    No, the camber settings are higher, you read wrong.  The TOE settings are within .1 of straight ahead,....the CAMBER settings are usually over -.6.  The reason for the lower camber settings on high downforce cars is the dynamic camber induced by suspension travel caused by the downforce.

      Have i missed something or should this be dependant on the suspension travel and rebound. You wouldn't be able to see .1 degree of camber angle!  Next time you watch Touring cars on TV look at the top of the tires, you can visibly see the camber angle. Moving onto your brake settings which are 46%, 47%, 48% .  Only 1% separates all cars in the game?  I don't really believe thats correct.  

    It's not,....these settings will retain a high level of braking power but retain the stabilty of the car while braking.  Again,...not the highest performance settings, just hopefully better than stock.  The reason for the slight rear bias is turn-in.  If the front bias is too high the car will understeer under heavy braking, causing a car to more likely go right off the track,...very frustrating.  With the rear bias, a small amount of braking distance is sacrificed to allow more turning ability(braking oversteer), this slight difference can mean keeping a car on the track and running wide as amn alternative to going off the track completly.  That is my intention at least.

    But i got to hand it to you for typing it all out.Smile [:)]

    Thanks, my pleasure.

    You are absolutely correct.  These are FAR from the best settings.  But it's not meant to be an ultimate setup guide.  The settings are simplistic and generic for exactly the reason of being easy to use.

    Read my FM1 guide for more info on why i've done what i've done here.  I tried to cut out alot more of the chit-chat comments on this one to keep a simpler look and feel to the whole thing.

     


    FM3 Suspension Calculator
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

    iPhone Suspension Calculator
    http://forzatune.com/

    Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
    http://diy-racetuning.net/
  •  06-11-2007, 9:53 AM 245459 in reply to 242646

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    feuerdog:
      
    - What it won't do for you
        - It is not intended to explain why or how everything works, independantly or as a whole, but it might provide some useful information.
        - No two cars, drivers, tracks, or setups will act exactly the same.  Your results will be subjective and will vary.  
        - These calculations will not acheive a perfect tune, but they may be an improvement, or at least an alternative.
        - This is NOT an ultimate setup guide.  You can improve these tunes further.  I do.


    FM3 Suspension Calculator
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

    iPhone Suspension Calculator
    http://forzatune.com/

    Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
    http://diy-racetuning.net/
  •  06-11-2007, 10:05 AM 245506 in reply to 243815

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Cannon x Fodder:
    I would surely enjoy anything that causes me to have less math in my life.  I am in school at ITT for electrical engineering, studying for my MECP advanced certification, and worst of all I have run a cash register at work that is broken and does not give me the change amount.  Needless to say, doing math for fun is not something I am keen on but I will if it makes me faster.

    I HATE math.  I even failed pre-algebra way back in the day(circa 1985).

    Unfortunately, I also like to understand the way things work, so i've been cursed with the need to use math in one way or another for most of my hobbies.  C'est la vie.


    FM3 Suspension Calculator
    http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/3073197.aspx

    iPhone Suspension Calculator
    http://forzatune.com/

    Learn about Tuning at DIY RaceTuning
    http://diy-racetuning.net/
  •  06-11-2007, 10:45 AM 245728 in reply to 245066

    Re: FORZA MOTORSPORT 2 - SUSPENSION TUNING CALCULATOR

    Ill give thease a shot =D

    "Yo soulless I am really happy for you and I'am gonna let you finish, but TKX is one of the best trolls of all time, of all time." - HapSlappy
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